One LARGE order of S-HOLE coming right up!

[Woobie]

I'm an English/Native American-American And that probably doesn't begin to tell the story. When I say English, is that Celtic, Briton, Anglo-Saxon, Norse or Norman? And if Norman, is that native Norman or Norse Norman? Maybe I'm the offspring of the rape of one of Boudicca's daughters by a Roman centurion. Or maybe I'm the result of an Anglo-Saxon warrior and the British concubine he attained by enslaving her family. Maybe all of this is correct. And Native American? Is that the Ice Age Europeans or Asians? Is that Cherokee, Choctaw, or Indian Outlaw?

It's an interesting discussion, but has no utility. African-American is a nonsense term unless you actually emigrated from Africa.

 

[jamil]

Okay, kut let's revisit.

They can go wherever they like, just as long as it isn't here.

Why? I don't really know what the process is for such things, but apply for a visa, citizenship, stand in line. Whatever. If they have something to offer Why not? Is South Africa a ****hole?

I know you were playing coy to point out some hypocrisy. I didn't move any goalposts. I played it straight. I gave my opinion about a legitimate way for them to get here if they want to go through the process. When you complained about that, I gave my opinion about them as refugees. But you wanted to continue to play it cute. I'm playing it straight up. Still.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Okay, kut let's revisit.

I know you were playing coy to point out some hypocrisy. I didn't move any goalposts. I played it straight. I gave my opinion about a legitimate way for them to get here if they want to go through the process. When you complained about that, I gave my opinion about them as refugees. But you wanted to continue to play it cute. I'm playing it straight up. Still.

I have absolutely no idea why you left out the post I quoted, and was responding to. None at all.

Take the SA farmers as refugees and let the country implode. There's really no other option, as genocide is knocking on the door.

This is what happens when the outside world thinks it knows how to better manage a country than its inhabitants, just as we saw with Rhodesia.

You played as "straight" as a race at Watkin's Glen.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I'm an English/Native American-American And that probably doesn't begin to tell the story. When I say English, is that Celtic, Briton, Anglo-Saxon, Norse or Norman? And if Norman, is that native Norman or Norse Norman? Maybe I'm the offspring of the rape of one of Boudicca's daughters by a Roman centurion. Or maybe I'm the result of an Anglo-Saxon warrior and the British concubine he attained by enslaving her family. Maybe all of this is correct. And Native American? Is that the Ice Age Europeans or Asians? Is that Cherokee, Choctaw, or Indian Outlaw?

It's an interesting discussion, but has no utility. African-American is a nonsense term unless you actually emigrated from Africa.

Right! And that's the only one we care about. The rest? Those are ok.

 

[Woobie]

Right! And that's the only one we care about. The rest? Those are ok.

I can only speak for myself, but your sarcasm is poorly placed. I don't care about any of those terms. I only highlighted that particular one at the end of my post because it is the one people have been discussing for the last few pages.

I realize that everything looks like a nail to a hammer. But your zealousness assumes much. And you have exhibited with this post that you wrongly assume about me.

 

[jamil]

I have absolutely no idea why you left out the post I quoted, and was responding to. None at all.



You played as "straight" as a race at Watkin's Glen.

Actually I started there and tried to multi-quote the entire exchange. Apparently vbulletin only allows 5. So I just picked out what I thought was most relevant to comment on. Yes. I played it straight. I commented on the words you used, not the coy underlying accusations everyone knew you were making. And here's the thing. I actually agree that sides are flipping on this. Pro-trump people seem to want these people as refugees. Anti-trump people don't. Neither side of the fringes is being consistent. But no. Coyness. Whatever. I'll just play it straight up.

 

[BugI02]

Irish-American, Italian-American, German-American, Polish-Amrican.... you're going to tell me with a straight face, that when the vast majority people use these, they acknowledge that they encompass all identities?

With the folks I know, I see this identification scales as Irish-American or Italian-American etc. It indicates they are perhaps more likely to celebrate The Feast of Saint Patrick or the Feast of Saint Anthony, not that they are still nursing a grudge about how their ancestors were treated upon their arrival in America and seeking to blame the people they routinely encounter in modern life for the sins of the past. They embrace their identity as primarily American, while honoring some of the traditions of their cultural heritage.

 

[KLB]

Irish-American, Italian-American, German-American, Polish-Amrican.... you're going to tell me with a straight face, that when the vast majority people use these, they acknowledge that they encompass all identities?

The difference I see here is that those are all nationalities not races.

I still see them as absurd though. It is just a way of dividing people.

 

[jamil]

Right! And that's the only one we care about. The rest? Those are ok.

Well, purple notwithstanding, it seems less purple is warranted than rendered, given what you've already said. How many times does pretty much everyone who is posting on this subject have to say the Hyphenated labels are stupid? All of them.

I'll say a bit more on it though. If you lived in some nation on the African continent, and you migrated to the US and became a citizen, it makes more sense in that context. African-American seems to describe a migration path more than a race.

How are "African-Americans" racially distinct from Black people who were born in Europe? I guess it'd make sense if that's a box to check in the US for ethnicity. But race? Seems poorly thought out.

 

[Woobie]

With the folks I know, I see this identification scales as Irish-American or Italian-American etc. It indicates they are perhaps more likely to celebrate The Feast of Saint Patrick or the Feast of Saint Anthony, not that they are still nursing a grudge about how their ancestors were treated upon their arrival in America and seeking to blame the people they routinely encounter in modern life for the sins of the past. They embrace their identity as primarily American, while honoring some of the traditions of their cultural heritage.

Now that's a broad brush. If you make that argument, then who is to say people don't use "African-American" for similar cultural reasons. I don't think you can have that both ways.

 

[jamil]

Irish-American, Italian-American, German-American, Polish-Amrican.... you're going to tell me with a straight face, that when the vast majority people use these, they acknowledge that they encompass all identities?

Oh. Now we're moving the goalposts. We're calling them identities. I thought the whole thing that we're saying about silly labels is in terms of race. If we're going to call it ethnicity, I'd be fine with that. I use zero hyphens. I think I have Irish and German and maybe a few other nationalities in my heritage. But that's all heritage. I don't identify with any of that. I identify with being an American. I wouldn't disparage people who hold on to the cultures of their heritage as far as how they identify. But that's not the thing you're identifying when you check a box under "race".

If you're mixing the meanings of race and ethnicity, I can see where the disconnect is.

 

[Dead Duck]

Off-Point Question- (kind of)
I'm trying to look up a video or report of that U.S. official dude that went to Africa and did some speech there and because he was all into being "political correct" here in the states, he called all the people there in Africa, "African Americans".
What a maroon!

Who was that? You guys remember?

 

[jamil]

The difference I see here is that those are all nationalities not races.

I still see them as absurd though. It is just a way of dividing people.

I guess it depends who is doing the labeling. If people are self-sorting themselves into groups in which they identify, that's fine. Why can't people hold onto/identify with their own familial cultures? If people are labeling to classify people into groups, particularly for political purposes, then I agree. It's just a way of dividing people.

 

[Kutnupe14]

The difference I see here is that those are all nationalities not races.

I still see them as absurd though. It is just a way of dividing people.

And why do you think they are used?

 

[jamil]

And why do you think they are used?

They're not used under race. I've filled out a number of forms in my life and I don't think I ever recall "Italian-American" under Race. Under race you might typically see: White and/or Caucasian, African-American and/or Black, Native American, Hispanic.

Hispanic isn't even a race. But I see it there quite often under race.

Something that needs to be clear. Saying African-American isn't a race isn't intended to be disparaging to anyone who identifies as that. Identities are different from race, though race, especially minority races within a larger ethnic group, is often closely related to [STRIKE]race[/STRIKE] identity.

ETA: meant to say identity, not race.

 

[Kutnupe14]

They're not used under race. I've filled out a number of forms in my life and I don't think I ever recall "Italian-American" under Race. Under race you might typically see: White and/or Caucasian, African-American and/or Black, Native American, Hispanic.

Hispanic isn't even a race. But I see it there quite often under race.

Something that needs to be clear. Saying African-American isn't a race isn't intended to be disparaging to anyone who identifies as that. Identities are different from race, though race, especially minority races within a larger ethnic group, is often closely related to race.

This does not appear to answer my question. I asked why are they used.

 

[jamil]

Off-Point Question- (kind of)
I'm trying to look up a video or report of that U.S. official dude that went to Africa and did some speech there and because he was all into being "political correct" here in the states, he called all the people there in Africa, "African Americans".
What a maroon!

Who was that? You guys remember?

Barak Obama? Was it during the apology tour?

 

[jamil]

This does not appear to answer my question. I asked why are they used.

Well, maybe ask the question a different way so I can know what you're getting at. Are you asking why people identify with nationalities? If that's what you're asking, it's not the same question as why they are used.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Well, maybe ask the question a different way so I can know what you're getting at. Are you asking why people identify with nationalities? If that's what you're asking, it's not the same question as why they are used.

This appears to be avoiding a fairly straitforward question. Perhaps I should ask what do people mean when they refer to themselves as "Anglo." Is that better?

 

[jamil]

This appears to be avoiding a fairly straitforward question.

No. It's not. I'm serious. Just say straight up what you're saying. I honestly am not sure.