OC carry caused some problems for me today

[EvilBlackGun]

Been in the active military lately?

I mean the place where there are bad dudes in funny hats shooting at you? There, one gets used to it.

It is sad to say that the only time or rather most of the time i should say. that we only hear of those police that are good and do their jobs, after they have either lost their lives or done something heroic.

 

[ATM]

...I'm simply trying to illustrate the fact that there ARE ways that citizens and LEOs can interact in these types of situations where everybody wins but it takes both sides to make it work...

I'm not interested in both sides winning or making this type of response work.

I'd rather have the officer go back and inform his superiors that there was nothing he could legally make me do and there was no reason to detain me so it was a completely wasted trip.

Enough wasted trips and they might decide to change their policy or start correcting callers.

 

[DaddyFixSemi]

I mean the place where there are bad dudes in funny hats shooting at you? There, one gets used to it.

no my military service end just before the twin towers where brought down.

However that doesn't mean that i haven't been in a fire-fight or where mine and my buddies life's depended on each other.

what i meant by my statement, i was referring to civilian law enforcement and not the military.

 

[sloughfoot]

I'm not interested in both sides winning or making this type of response work.

I'd rather have the officer go back and inform his superiors that there was nothing he could legally make me do and there was no reason to detain me so it was a completely wasted trip.

Enough wasted trips and they might decide to change their policy or start correcting callers.

I understand what you are saying, but the dispatcher that attempts to resolve a call without sending an Officer, will be fired so fast that it would be dizzying.

It is up to the responding Officer to do a complete investigation of the complaint.

It cannot ever be any other way. And you wouldn't want it any other way.

Guys have killed everybody in the house and then waited for the police to respond to the call, to "commit suicide by Cop". They sat down on the front steps, got bored and started pulling weeds while waiting. A bank robber did that to me, once. True story, it was 2001.

The VERY FIRST thing that a recruit is taught in the Academy is that things are NEVER how they may seem. Cops, by their very nature and training, are sceptical of everything.

The young Officer went home to his family after his shift. I'll bet he didn't give the incident a second thought after that. Nobody got hurt. We only have one side of the story and I am not going to ask for more of the story. I have nothing in this.

OP, from your account of what happened, you handled this well.

I am signal 88.

 

[ATM]

I understand what you are saying, but the dispatcher that attempts to resolve a call without sending an Officer, will be fired so fast that it would be dizzying.

Currently, that may be the case, but it could be changed.

It is up to the responding Officer to do a complete investigation of the complaint.

Driving by would have been a complete investigation in this case.
Yep, there's a guy carrying a gun and mowing a lawn. Yawn. Time to go get some coffee.

It cannot ever be any other way. And you wouldn't want it any other way.

Baloney. Don't send an officer to investigate unless there is some reason to believe a crime is afoot.

I want every MWG caller told that it's just like driving a car on the road - legal with a license in Indiana.

Asking if the man with the gun is doing anything even remotely threatening would be icing on the cake.

 

[sloughfoot]

ATM, I respect your opinion. But it is not realistic and is ignorant of the realities of this world with evil around every corner.

Any Police Officer that would conduct the investigation that you describe is not worthy to be in a position of public trust.

Dispatchers take calls and send Officers to investigate those calls. They do not, and should not make judgements on those calls. They are civilians, they know which buttons to push on the console in front of them, they are not cops. I don't want them making any decisions except whether to send fire or EMS to support the first responder. Hopefully, both.

Dispatchers can not resolve any call. And you do not want them to try to. I mean really, you don't...

Go on a ride-a-long to a complaint and find that it something totally different from what you were dispatched on.

Then again, maybe not. The job is 99% boredom, interrupted by 1% life and death instantaneous decision making.

Even the Officer who KNOWS that he is going on a BULL**** call because he has been sent here for the same reason every day of his rotation will treat it as a new investigation becuase the citizen deserves it and because if he lets his guard down, his wife will be a widow in a blink of the eye.

You can never understand until you have been there.

 

[ATM]

I'm not suggesting the officers let down their guard, but when they drive by and see me mowing my yard, knowing I don't have to show them ID or LTCH for carrying on my property, why would they bother getting out and asking? It's just not worthy of further investigation.

The person who called needs the investigation. It is their act which needs correction.

I'm all for officers staying safe. I'm against using them as a nanny investigation force for things I don't understand or approve of or against people I'd simply like to see hassled.

A call should not automatically justify a contact.

 

[DaddyFixSemi]

Ok I've seen enough of the back and forth on this topic.

Here's how i see things and i will "try" and explain things from a neutral point of view.

Greyhound47 is out there mowing his yard in the new black speedo that his wife bought him, packing his junk around on his hip.

Neighbor just happens to glance across the yard and see's greyhound packin' the heat. Neighbor calls the cops and informs them of the junk that greyhound is packin' around with him.

Dispatch radio's the nearest available officer to respond. The officer pulls up and approaches greyhound.

Now here the officer's training kicks in and as he does not know our greyhound and his junk like we do here on the forums he must use caution while dealing with Mr.greyhound and his speedo packin' junk.

This officer's knows that for a IN res. to carry a handgun they must have a valid LTCH. However what this officer may or may not know is that a IN. res may legally carry a handgun while on his OR her properity without a state issued LTCH.

Now here the officer has several choice's that he can choose as to how to proceed with this MWAG call.

option 1. Officer approaches our beloved and cherished Mr. Greyhound and asks to see his LTCH. Where upon inspection of said document the officer politely informs Mr. Greyhound that the reason he is there and asked to see his LTCH is that the dispatch received a call about a man carry a gun at this address while politly discounting MS's. Greyhound choice of somewhat questionable attire for her husband lawn care activities. Then the Officer politely informs our very much loved yet slightly out of balance Mr. Greyhound to have a nice day.

option 2. The officer conduct's the call as stated by our Mr. Greyhound.

option 3. The officer in question upon arrival at the address given to him by dispatch see's our Black speedo wearing Mr. Greyhound and his hip hugging junk. Draws his service pistol and proceds to thump our Mr. Greyhound into the ground and thus earning the greyhound household millions of taxpayer dollars and thus provide Ms's Greyhound with a vast wealth of funds upon which she can buy our much respected yet tolerated Mr. Greyhound with an even greater pool and hopefully a vastly greater color selection of speedo's of which to mow his
lawn in.

Now again as i have said before and will say again there is always two sides to a coin. Every person is different and sometimes has vastly different demeanor's upon they draw from.

Now it was stated that police wither they be new to the force or 30 year vet's. Must respond to certain calls, in certain ways,, Yes i will agree with that statement to a degree. I would say that any call involving a high risk to not only the officer but the public as well must and should be approached with certain precautions and measure's. However lower-risk calls can and may, upon the officer's decision, handled with less precaution and measure.

Now should the responding officer(s) know the law upon which they enforce YES!!!!!!!!!
How can anyone expect a Leo to enforce the law upon which they are sworn to uphold, without first knowing the law and obeying the law themselves.. If you ask me they can't.

To me if you chose a law enforcement career, you are then not just choosing just another job but a life-style. One where you must hold yourself to a higher standard then any other.

Now having said what i have just said, it is IMPOSSIBLE to hold that high of a standard every day, all day. Police are human beings just like the rest of us.
We are not machines or computers for even those break down. We all have our bad days or those days where we just seem to use poor judgement on certain things. It is how and what we learn from those days and situations, that make us human. a police officer reasonably can't be expected to know every little law or brand spanking new law there is. If that where the case then we'd have no police on the streets to defend the public at large from those that wish them harm.

We can sit here and armchair this topic all day. What he should have said or done during the encounter. What should or should not be done after, so on and so forth and we not get anywhere.

However what we can and should do is congratulate our Mr.Greyhound on the outcome in his favor and wish him all the best for him and his family.

Mr greyhound,,

I on behave of myself, my wife and our children, We are happy that this situation your found yourself in, ended without mishap and in your favor. We applaud you for your level headed thinking and will to stay your chosen course.
God sped and god bless you and yours.

sincerely,
the Adams family

 

[ultraspec]

Firearms are apart of 100% of LEO calls and LEOs carry a gun everyday they're on the job; you bet your ass they should all know the law about carry and use of firearms just as much as they know what the speedlimit is, when to use a turn signal and what a class of drivers license lets you do. An officer not knowing the ins and outs of tax law I get, but when they use and carry gun everyday there is plain and simple no excuse (negligence is a reason not an excuse) for not knowing the law.

And if the officer is unable to look in the code book to confirm what his limits are and needs the supervisor to come out for him to get such a simple task accomplished let the complaint be right on top of his personnel file. Not to mention being incapable of doing his job without alienating the community he is serving and deliberately agitating an armed individual.

Document and follow through, if an ignorant neighbor calls it in fine, it happens all the time, he has to respond, but how he handles things needs major improvement.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...our_rights_what_to_do_when_leo_stops_you.html

Def need to file a complaint and hopefully the ofc realizes his mistake in treating and speaking to you in such a manner. Was it a young officer by any chance?

 

[ultraspec]

I also want to go home at the end of my shift. But I don't think an re-enactment of the "North Hollywood Shootout" is about to go down everytime I see a gun. This is where common sense comes in. If I get a "man with a gun call," of course I'm going to respond. If I arrive and see a guy riding a lawnmower with a gun on his hip, I'm immediately going to roll my eyes, and think about how ridiculous the situation I've been dispatched to is. I will make contact, and inform the gun owner that some of his neighbors obviously don't appreciate the way he carries his weapon (just kinda to give him a heads up). I would then go to the complainant's home if it wouldn't be made obvious to the gunowner who the person is (by phone if so), and have a talk about why they had an issue.

Amen, this is where experience comes into play on a call. Thats why I asked if the officer was young, adn after reading further learned the officer in question is a young one. They can teach you all kinds of things in the academy but they cant teach you how you are going to talk and react to every situation if you let the badge go to your head. It happens mostly with young officers. I know when I started out I had a way different outlook on the job and the badge than I do now. Luckily I also had enough common sense to keep myself out of trouble until my experience caught up with my youthfullness.

 

[Prometheus]

Here is something I don't get. Why is it people always START the encounter with the LEO.

Why do people feel compelled to talk to cops when they are walking around? I don't get it.

Yes it was probably very obvious why the cop pulled up.

Personally, I'd have kept mowing until the cop flagged me down or said something. I'm not turning a non-consensual contact into a consensual one by engaging the cop first. It's crazy, especially why you think you are going to be questioned.

Let alone the fact... I'm BUSY. I don't want to deal with a nosey cop anymore so than the kirby sales man. I ain't buyin'.

Next... who mows their lawn with ID? Can it happen? Sure. I mowed the lawn today, I didn't have ID on me. Why have a wallet on while you are doing yard work? A gun, sure, you might need the gun.

Bizarre. Anyway, it sounds like you were insulted and treated like crap. You need to file a complaint.

 

[Bubba]

ATM, I respect your opinion. But it is not realistic and is ignorant of the realities of this world with evil around every corner.

Any Police Officer that would conduct the investigation that you describe is not worthy to be in a position of public trust.

Why? Where in the case of the OP was there PC to initiate a stop? We've established there's a training issue but let's put that aside. A police officer (when did cops stop being civilians, btw?) is dispatched to a 911 call of "my neighbor is in his yard packing heat". The police officer rolls up and observes that the gun-toting gentleman's pistol is holstered and the fellow is not leaving his property. The gun is not PC to detain since it isn't illegal to carry on your property. There is no PC to detain and investigate whether the subject is on his own property since the complaint didn't say anything about this being some random stranger lurking about. There was no complaint that the pistol-packer was pointing his firearm at anyone, so no PC there either. I know you don't want dispatchers making any sort of decision but a call taker that couldn't ask "do you recognize the man with a gun" and "where is he located" needs to find a new job.

So I ask again, where's the PC to detain? I could understand if the subject was entering public spaces when he turned his mower around. I could understand the decision to detain if the neighbor embellished the 911 call, provided the officer proceeded to cite the neighbor for a false 911 call after investigating the OP. But why would I want some mindless robot automatically using force (to detain is use of force regardless of whether or not weapons are used) just because some moron managed to push three buttons on a phone?

 

[whocares]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Are you going to file a complaint?

LIKE THAT MATTERS ONE FREAKIN BIT, MAKES ME SICK
THE LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY FOR LEO

 

[halfmileharry]

LIKE THAT MATTERS ONE FREAKIN BIT, MAKES ME SICK
THE LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY FOR LEO

What makes me sick is the fact we've allowed this to go on for so long.
In hindsight what should we truly expect?
I'll point the finger at myself first and include a large percentage of the rest of the citizens along with me.
I've seen it for a long time and never raised my voice about it before. Hey, it wasn't me so why should I give a flying .... what happened to someone else?
This has been going on so long we've taken it for granted that LEO can pretty much do what they darn well please with little if any repercussion.
I haven't paid much attention to the details of my elected official's voting records. It does start there.
I know exactly how many times I've written my elected officials of any injustice or cause. ZERO!
Sure, I've hit the voting booth and "pulled the lever" but that's about as far as I've involved myself.
We seldom hold accountable our elected officials to the letter of the law. Shi. rolls downhill and as long as I didn't have to step in it or smell it I was content to just ignore it.
We've become acclimated to the "way things are" and have let our rights be trampled on too long. Now we see the results of our inactions.
The "POWERS THAT BE" are what we've allowed. What should we have expected to happen. Power corrupts.
Writing out a complaint to the local PD supervisor is just a very small step on the lower level and should be done, but these issues need to be taken to higher levels of power IF things are to be set right again. No, not again but just plain set right.
We're playing with a "stacked deck" dealt out by our lawmakers handing the the cards out. It starts there IF we're going to rectify any injustices. Not just from the LEOs but the higher ups that have the control of Law Enforcement Agencies and any agency that has the power over us.
Our lawmakers and judges need to be addressed first to make sure our rights are NOT taken away AND returned. Power corrupts and the laws and intent of the laws have been corrupted.
Law enforcement agencies are no different than any other agency. "Give me Power" to make my job easier. "We need to do this to make the world a safer place"
It's coming up on another election and I haven't seen or heard one thing about the little issue on our rights and the stance the candidates are taking.
I guess it's time I got off my "mind my own business" arse and started making an effort to keep my rights. God knows I've been ignoring all too many real issues for such a long time.

 

[Shay]

LIKE THAT MATTERS ONE FREAKIN BIT, MAKES ME SICK
THE LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY FOR LEO

This post combined with your username made me chuckle.

 

[Gun Bunny]

Well for me it's not that I would mind the encounter with the officer, it would be the attitude the officer has. If I were in this situation, come check me out, fine, come to me with an attitude and it would be different!

One time a friend and I were shooting on his back 40 of his farm, a neighbor call the sheriff, a young deputy came out, informed us why he was there, saw we were shooting against a good back stop, told us he had to check things out for safety, and then talked about guns for a bit and then left. Didn't bother us. Had he had a bad attitude, things would have been different!

It's all about attitude and knowledge of the law, officer doesn't know the law, call it in or ask a brother officer that may know the law or to handle the situation if they are inexperienced. Letting the badge go to your head is not the answer.

 

[greyhound47]

Here is something I don't get. Why is it people always START the encounter with the LEO.

Why do people feel compelled to talk to cops when they are walking around? I don't get it.

Yes it was probably very obvious why the cop pulled up.

Personally, I'd have kept mowing until the cop flagged me down or said something. I'm not turning a non-consensual contact into a consensual one by engaging the cop first. It's crazy, especially why you think you are going to be questioned.

Let alone the fact... I'm BUSY. I don't want to deal with a nosey cop anymore so than the kirby sales man. I ain't buyin'.

Next... who mows their lawn with ID? Can it happen? Sure. I mowed the lawn today, I didn't have ID on me. Why have a wallet on while you are doing yard work? A gun, sure, you might need the gun.

Bizarre. Anyway, it sounds like you were insulted and treated like crap. You need to file a complaint.

Well, where do I start? I am a former PO and some of my family is still PO. As such, I see police as a non-threat. I value the police who take the time to police effectively and to take their time patrolling my neighborhood. I don't have a chip on my shoulder as you seem to. Hate to say it but attitudes like yours make it more likely innocent people will be treated like I was by the police.

The officer pulled up in front of my house and looked at ME. What would you have me do, ignore him and hope he goes away? Anyway, I learned many years ago on the Dale Carnegie Course that life is easier when you are friendly, outgoing, and interested in others needs and motivations. It, generally, makes for much easier interactions. In this case it did not pay off. The PO intially thought I was a pushover due to my friendliness. That ended the moment he started treating me like a putz.

 

[bassplayrguy]

Not without a warrant. I am on my property and will submit to nothing without a warrant. Have a good day sir.

 

[whocares]

I know for a %100 fact that had the officer involved
in this particular situation, given the information stated
At the beginning of the thread, would have
"RAILROADED" you all the way downtown had you
not "complied". First slammed you in your front yard
then hog tied you and charged you with a never would
stick felony. You may be granted access to an official
complaint form after telling his good cop friend what
happened and then wait and see how absolutely no
disciplinary measures were taken. In the end its
"Comply" or take that ride....... downtown.

 

[trpsteelnuts]

OK, I've read several of these posts and I'm gonna chime in. I gotta apologize for this cop. He truely makes the job difficult for the rest of us. I am a current copper with 14 years service in NWI. A few things on this issue. I agree that the leo that showed at greyhound47's residence was an idiot. I don't know all of our laws because, as stated before by another member, there are alot, but I know a few about guns because they can kill me and having one on your own property is legal. Its still scary to us,even when legally possessed because of the whole death thing and since we can not read mind, like some believe, we are still cautious around them. You can't go waving it around at everyone, but u can posses one on ur prop. If this leo had believed that a crime was being commited, WHY did he not disarm greyhound47? I believe because he is prob. one of these coppers that writes tickets all day and doesn't know what to do during a real, read "possible dangerous", situation. Truely clueless. Greyhound47 did nothing wrong and his common sense kept him out of jail, even though the copper was wrong, u still don't want to go to jail. U can keep the money u might win in a lawsuit, don't know how the courts work everywhere else, here they suck. As for his attitude, I can see the coppers bad attitude, i work with one of these guys and i go the other way if i can when he's around. Its embarrassing to me and the other guys we work with. U can complain, but just like for all citizens, his words are not illegal. Unprofessional? Absolutly 100%. Someone mentioned dispatchers telling the nosy neighbor its not illegal. I agree and WISH they could, but if the call turns out to be something different and we don't go. GEUSS who the finger gets pointed at and is told we should have done it different. I am not defending this guy cuz he screwed the pooch, in my opinion, at every turn but dont judge all of us because of him. Using that logic would make us have to scream at every citizen we meet because i had to do it to one citizen before. It goes both ways. As for accountability. I have seen some cops who seem to be untouchable, and others who get screwed over slipping on a banana peel. Talk about an unfair system.So i agree to an extent on that issue. Greyhound47 did it the best way, in my opinion, to keep himself from further BS involments with the current broken criminal justice system.