OC carry caused some problems for me today

[jgreiner]

I know for a %100 fact that had the officer involved
in this particular situation, given the information stated
At the beginning of the thread, would have
"RAILROADED" you all the way downtown had you
not "complied". First slammed you in your front yard
then hog tied you and charged you with a never would
stick felony. You may be granted access to an official
complaint form after telling his good cop friend what
happened and then wait and see how absolutely no
disciplinary measures were taken. In the end its
"Comply" or take that ride....... downtown.

and I would have hired a great lawyer.....and retired early...and bought more guns.

If you refuse to stand up to injustice...then you are part of the problem.

 

[JetGirl]

Its still scary to us,even when legally possessed because of the whole death thing and since we can not read mind

Um...that one kind of goes both ways!

 

[crispy]

So am I correct in thinking that we've boiled down the problem to two things:

1. Way too many cops don't know the law.

2. If you politely inform them that their incorrect interpretation of the law is incorrect they usually turn into *******s.

Seriously, how do the LEOs in this thread think it would have gone if the grass mower said:

"I'm sorry officer, but I am the property owner and as such I do not need to produce ID or a LTCH unless you have probably cause of a crime being committed. Have a nice day."

 

[trpsteelnuts]

Crispy, a poor attitude by the home owners definatly doesn't help cuz I'm just trying to do a crappy job, especially if I had a nice attitude. I would have told him sorry to bother you and to just keep his hands off his gun for my safety, asked if he was the home owner and if yes was the answer, I would have told him why I was sent there and apoligized for bothering him and left. The situation, him mowing the lawn is not the same as a guy looking through windows at the bank with a gun showing. Again, regular people cry when their neighbors dog barks once, they see a gun, they loose their minds. Perhaps my approach to this situation is not believable by some on this forum, but there are level headed cops out there. Remember, just because someone owns a gun legally, on there prop., whatever, does not mean that gun can not kill.

 

[trpsteelnuts]

Jetgirl, as long as u don't point one at me, u got nothing to worry about from me.

 

[JetGirl]

Jetgirl, as long as u don't point one at me, u got nothing to worry about from me.

Likewise.

 

[jmiller676]

OK, I've read several of these posts and I'm gonna chime in. I gotta apologize for this cop. He truely makes the job difficult for the rest of us. I am a current copper with 14 years service in NWI. A few things on this issue. I agree that the leo that showed at greyhound47's residence was an idiot. I don't know all of our laws because, as stated before by another member, there are alot, but I know a few about guns because they can kill me and having one on your own property is legal. Its still scary to us,even when legally possessed because of the whole death thing and since we can not read mind, like some believe, we are still cautious around them. You can't go waving it around at everyone, but u can posses one on ur prop. If this leo had believed that a crime was being commited, WHY did he not disarm greyhound47? I believe because he is prob. one of these coppers that writes tickets all day and doesn't know what to do during a real, read "possible dangerous", situation. Truely clueless. Greyhound47 did nothing wrong and his common sense kept him out of jail, even though the copper was wrong, u still don't want to go to jail. U can keep the money u might win in a lawsuit, don't know how the courts work everywhere else, here they suck. As for his attitude, I can see the coppers bad attitude, i work with one of these guys and i go the other way if i can when he's around. Its embarrassing to me and the other guys we work with. U can complain, but just like for all citizens, his words are not illegal. Unprofessional? Absolutly 100%. Someone mentioned dispatchers telling the nosy neighbor its not illegal. I agree and WISH they could, but if the call turns out to be something different and we don't go. GEUSS who the finger gets pointed at and is told we should have done it different. I am not defending this guy cuz he screwed the pooch, in my opinion, at every turn but dont judge all of us because of him. Using that logic would make us have to scream at every citizen we meet because i had to do it to one citizen before. It goes both ways. As for accountability. I have seen some cops who seem to be untouchable, and others who get screwed over slipping on a banana peel. Talk about an unfair system.So i agree to an extent on that issue. Greyhound47 did it the best way, in my opinion, to keep himself from further BS involments with the current broken criminal justice system.

Not flamming you at all but,

1. Other things are just as deadly as a gun. I don't understand why people look at it that way. A threat is a threat regardless of the weapon they choose. And someone mowing their yard should immediatley be dismissed as a threat.

2. I still don't see the right for the cop to arrive at someones residence and question them regarding their firearm since it is legal to carry on your property with or without a LTCH. It's not so much a indivdual error but a department error.

3. Thank you for your service.

 

[Birds Away]

the officer got a dressing down and it is being handled

Wow, does anybody really believe this happened?

 

[jmiller676]

 

[Prometheus]

Well, where do I start? I am a former PO and some of my family is still PO. As such, I see police as a non-threat. I value the police who take the time to police effectively and to take their time patrolling my neighborhood. I don't have a chip on my shoulder as you seem to. Hate to say it but attitudes like yours make it more likely innocent people will be treated like I was by the police.

The officer pulled up in front of my house and looked at ME. What would you have me do, ignore him and hope he goes away? Anyway, I learned many years ago on the Dale Carnegie Course that life is easier when you are friendly, outgoing, and interested in others needs and motivations. It, generally, makes for much easier interactions. In this case it did not pay off. The PO intially thought I was a pushover due to my friendliness. That ended the moment he started treating me like a putz.

Sounds like you are a bit biased based upon being "one of them" in the past.

There are good cops and bad cops. You want to gamble on which are which? Be my guest.

You hear a lot about Officer Safety, why does the public not need to take some precautions as well? I can't read minds, I don't know whether the LEO I am or about to interact with has a chip on their shoulder or not. Why should I take any chances?

I've been open carrying before and had a LEOs look "right at me"... so what? Should I have walked over and started up a conversation? Heck no. Why?

Now if LEO is walking halfway up my yard directly to me, it's a bit different. If they are just stepping out of their car on the curb, they may be going to the neighbors. I'm not a mind reader either.

10-1 if a cop is engaging you, it isn't to shoot the proverbial breeze.

You have an agent of the state INVESTIGATING YOU for criminal activity. That cop has the ability to be nice or be mean. He could find no crime, he could make one up. He could let you off with a warning or throw you in a cage. He could mace, taser, beat or shoot you.

Again I ask you, do you really want to bet your life and freedom on that LEo being a stand up guy?

I certainly don't. Most people would take this as a life lesson and be glad they made it out ok and learn from it.

You said you were a leo in the past, you should know the difference between consensual and non consensual contacts.

 

[greyhound47]

Wow, does anybody really believe this happened?

At some point, I must trust that the right thing is being done. I cannot force it and must believe in the goodness and professionalism of the dept and it's leadership. I have no further recourse as the harm to me was exceptionally limited.

 

[Caleb]

How is it doctors and nurses can remember thousands of medicines, symptoms, and medical conditions but a cop cannot remember the handful of laws they deal with on a regular basis?

I'm willing to bet that somebody is going to say that the doctors and nurses go to school for a long while...I think police should do the same.

 

[ATM]

...Someone mentioned dispatchers telling the nosy neighbor its not illegal. I agree and WISH they could, but if the call turns out to be something different and we don't go. GEUSS who the finger gets pointed at and is told we should have done it different...

If the nosy neighbor called in that there was a man with a baseball bat playing ball in the yard, should an officer be dispatched to investigate?

How about a man with a shovel planting daisies in the yard... send an officer to investigate?

Of course, any of these weapons could and have been used to kill people, yet none of these actions warrants an investigation simply because a call was made.

Does anyone really think a dispatcher shouldn't be asking why these calls were being made and what exactly they were attempting to report?

 

[Hayseed_40]

How is it doctors and nurses can remember thousands of medicines, symptoms, and medical conditions but a cop cannot remember the handful of laws they deal with on a regular basis?

They don't. Medical professionals use lots of referrence books and consults.

It has been discussed how these MWG calls are not as frequent as people feel. You really have no idea how many laws there are and how many cops remember and do not remember.

 

[Hayseed_40]

If the nosy neighbor called in that there was a man with a baseball bat playing ball in the yard, should an officer be dispatched to investigate?

How about a man with a shovel planting daisies in the yard... send an officer to investigate?

Of course, any of these weapons could and have been used to kill people, yet none of these actions warrants an investigation simply because a call was made.

Does anyone really think a dispatcher shouldn't be asking why these calls were being made and what exactly they were attempting to report?

The answer is yes - an officer must be sent out to investigate. I know that is not how it would be if ATM or Hayseed were king but that is reality.

 

[jgreiner]

How is it doctors and nurses can remember thousands of medicines, symptoms, and medical conditions but a cop cannot remember the handful of laws they deal with on a regular basis?

I'm willing to bet that somebody is going to say that the doctors and nurses go to school for a long while...I think police should do the same.

Well, I can answer this......first off my daughter spent 4 years having those medicines, symptoms, and conditions DRILLED into her head. Then her part time job during her senior year was APPLYING all those things in the ER. But all medical folks have their areas they specialize in. Cops have to have a very broad understanding of the law.

I don't mind them being ignorant of legal changes, heck, we all are guilty of that from time to time. Where I draw the line is the over-the-top holier than thou attitudes that demand their way or the highway.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I don't mind them being ignorant of legal changes, heck, we all are guilty of that from time to time. Where I draw the line is the over-the-top holier than thou attitudes that demand their way or the highway.

THIS. I have patience with people to a point I just do not understand why some cops seem to be lacking this virtue and insist that being an ass is the best way to enforce laws and respond to the public.

 

[indytechnerd]

If the nosy neighbor called in that there was a man with a baseball bat playing ball in the yard, should an officer be dispatched to investigate?

How about a man with a shovel planting daisies in the yard... send an officer to investigate?

Of course, any of these weapons could and have been used to kill people, yet none of these actions warrants an investigation simply because a call was made.

Does anyone really think a dispatcher shouldn't be asking why these calls were being made and what exactly they were attempting to report?

<nitpick>
The bat -> playing ball and shovel -> planting flowers analogies aren't quite accurate, since the item in both is required for the activity. What you should have said is "How about a man with a shovel playing ball in the yard, should an officer be dispatched to investigate?"
See? [item] isn't necessarily needed for [activity]
</nitpick>


To put some words here that are on topic:
The OP got a d-bag for a responding copper.
Not all coppers are d-bags.
Don't wear speedos to mow. While weed-whacking is OK, but mowing is just going to far.

 

[ATM]

<nit...

tl;dr

 

[indytechnerd]

tl;dr

And that's why you'll never learn. I could have been expounding on the virtues of CCing.