Obamacare: Say goodnight, Gracie...

[Alpo]

So, if people don't want Trump, maybe the Democrats shouldn't have put up a Socialist, and a Thief. And the Republican should stop putting up bland people that no one cares about.

Bernie isn't even a democrat, but most of us who have stood by the party over the years preferred him to Hillary. Thief? I don't know....I've always considered Bernie a very forthright person. Perhaps your info differs. At this point it doesn't matter much. And the Clinton machine is dead, I hope. I think.

I think you have a just criticism of the party. But, what does it say that the GOP can field a dozen and a half candidates and a lyin' thieving misogynist with a bad combover comes out on top.....AND WINS! I think it says to me that the party system is broken on both sides.

 

[Alpo]

> one of the more vocal critics of Trump
> in "trumpster category"

You've been working very hard to promote dissension on this thread. If that is your objective, you're getting close. There is a fine line between friendly kibbitzing bad joss.

(ignore)

 

[actaeon277]

Bernie isn't even a democrat, but most of us who have stood by the party over the years preferred him to Hillary. Thief? I don't know....I've always considered Bernie a very forthright person. Perhaps your info differs. At this point it doesn't matter much. And the Clinton machine is dead, I hope. I think.

I think you have a just criticism of the party. But, what does it say that the GOP can field a dozen and a half candidates and a lyin' thieving misogynist with a bad combover comes out on top.....AND WINS! I think it says to me that the party system is broken on both sides.

The "thief" was Mrs. Clinton. The "socialist" was Mr. Sanders.

 

[actaeon277]

Although I can understand how you mix them up, socialism and thieving.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

You've been working very hard to be labeled a troll who promotes dissension on this thread. If that is your objective, you're getting close.

(ignore)

Hah, I think you might just be having a bad day today... perhaps put the paint roller down and pick up a finer brush?

I can't recall ever responding to you in a less-than-copacetic manner. Actually, I often find myself backing your objections on the forum. I just found it humorous that you're relegating someone like Jamil to the "trumpster category", when he's shown himself to be anything but.

As far as "promotes dissension"... that's just silly. You're in a thread where you've been met with a lot of people opposing your views on the subject. Just... be careful not to aim too wide and hit others that aren't necessarily part of that group.

 

[T.Lex]

The "thief" was Mrs. Clinton. The "socialist" was Mr. Sanders.

In Alpo's defense, I was even confused as to which was which.

Well, I actually thought the adjectives were common to both, and that was the ironic component. But, I can totally understand how the differentiation would be difficult.

 

[Alpo]

Although I can understand how you mix them up, socialism and thieving.

Rim shots abound this morning. I suppose that is funny is some cultures....like the group that voted for Trump because they enjoy fantasies of Eastern European women in leather with a foot on the couch in the West Wing. See Jamil for more info.

...but the reality is scarier. A blonde kneeling on the couch surrounded.

 

[jamil]

You've managed to push yourself into the Trumpster category. Enjoy.

I think you're losing your grip of reality. You said you wish your criticism was something stupid. I pointed out that it was.

What you did wasn't critical. It was ridicule. Ridiculing people you don't like isn't serous criticism. It's stupid. So, mission accomplished. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of Trump. I appreciate people being intellectually honest enough to address those. I also appreciate people being intellectually honest enough to know when they've been called out for silly criticisms. You're just not going to find an echo chamber for that on a site that has mostly conservatives/republicans.

 

[Thor]

You've been working very hard to promote dissension on this thread. If that is your objective, you're getting close. There is a fine line between friendly kibbitzing bad joss.

(ignore)

Go find a mirror. Or were you just talking to yourself.

 

[bwframe]

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Trump going after the Freedom Caucus this morning:

The Freedom Caucus will hurt the entire Republican agenda if they don't get on the team, & fast. We must fight them, & Dems, in 2018!

If anything, the Freedom Caucus saved him from being remembered as the "Republican" that gave us Obamacare 2.0. If anything, he should be grateful to them... but that's not how politics works right now.

 

[Dddrees]

Whether you believe the ACA or the Republican approach to healthcare is the right approach or not someone recently said something that makes a lot of sense. The only way this is going to be put to bed is if both the Republicans and Democrats work together and come up with a plan or this is going to be continually litagated for years if not decades to come.

Probably the biggest obstacle besides the fact that today there are no issues where compromise can be reached even within the Republican Party is that the Democrats came up with another entitlement. Once you give one it's practically impossible to take it away. Good Luck, cause as the Democrats found out there certainly are consequences for making unpopular choices.

 

[Alpo]

I think you're losing your grip of reality. You said you wish your criticism was something stupid. I pointed out that it was.

What you did wasn't critical. It was ridicule. Ridiculing people you don't like isn't serous criticism. It's stupid. So, mission accomplished. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of Trump. I appreciate people being intellectually honest enough to address those. I also appreciate people being intellectually honest enough to know when they've been called out for silly criticisms. You're just not going to find an echo chamber for that on a site that has mostly conservatives/republicans.

I've gave Trump the benefit of the doubt when he came into office. At this point my respect of the office is secure; however, my respect for the office holder is not. I don't know how anyone can look at him today, read his tweets, look at his activities (including golf almost every weekend at taxpayer expense for travel to Florida), watch his SIL and daughter get installed in the White House in official capacities (regardless of a commitment to perform in the capacity in an unpaid manner), and not see extremely legitimate reasons to be concerned that there might be a doddering old fool running the country. If you look for an intellectual argument to what is obvious on the surface, you miss the point.

I have no problem with executive orders or approval of pipelines...or even the adjustment of EPA regulation. Those are political differences between the parties and expected with a new regime of the opposition.

Support him all you want.

ps. it is OK on this forum to call a public figure "stupid". I don't think that holds true for other forum members.

 

[Alpo]

Go find a mirror. Or were you just talking to yourself.

You prefer an echo chamber? Easy enough. Not much fun though, is it?

 

[ArcadiaGP]

ps. it is OK on this forum to call a public figure "stupid". I don't think that holds true for other forum members.

This sounds familiar. Calling a person stupid (which Jamil did not do) and discussing things and ideas that are considered stupid are completely different things.

It would be stupid to call someone stupid on INGO.

 

[Alpo]

I suppose it is normal for a person to assume that they are fair-minded and even-handed. Those of us who are, perhaps, a little more honest with ourselves will recognize that that is not always the case and, in fact, may not be the norm.

Even so, it does creep into one's thoughts that people who do not agree with us must have something wrong with them. That either something is lacking in their lives or, perhaps, they were dropped on their head as a child. LOL

As I said, this place can be an echo chamber or opposing views can be heard...even though those opposing views are not widely held by the membership.

Yes, I think Trump is unfit for office. The latest polling data I've seen shows over 1/2 the country doesn't like what they see.

So, was it I who was dropped on his head as a child, or was it thee?

 

[jamil]

Trump going after the Freedom Caucus this morning:



If anything, the Freedom Caucus saved him from being remembered as the "Republican" that gave us Obamacare 2.0. If anything, he should be grateful to them... but that's not how politics works right now.

I've gave Trump the benefit of the doubt when he came into office. At this point my respect of the office is secure; however, my respect for the office holder is not. I don't know how anyone can look at him today, read his tweets, look at his activities (including golf almost every weekend at taxpayer expense for travel to Florida), watch his SIL and daughter get installed in the White House in official capacities (regardless of a commitment to perform in the capacity in an unpaid manner), and not see extremely legitimate reasons to be concerned that there might be a doddering old fool running the country. If you look for an intellectual argument to what is obvious on the surface, you miss the point.

I have no problem with executive orders or approval of pipelines...or even the adjustment of EPA regulation. Those are political differences between the parties and expected with a new regime of the opposition.

Support him all you want.

ps. it is OK on this forum to call a public figure "stupid". I don't think that holds true for other forum members.

1. Okay. Now you've made a legitimate criticism of Trump, rather than just ridiculing his family. And I agree with the criticism. I think he often uses twitter irresponsibly (accusing the former president of tapping his phones without providing evidence is objectively irresponsible.) I don't like his lavish weekends on my dime. I guess as part of the job we can give him a recreation allowance and if he wants to recreate more often or better accommodations than the allowance can afford, he'll have to pay that himself. As you can see from my updated Trump status in my sig line, I'm not fond of nepotism. Plenty to legitimately criticize about Trump without having to resort to high school equivalent family attacks, which you had in the the very same post just mocked.

2. I think YOU"RE missing the point. I brought up intellectual honesty because it's intellectually dishonest to decry other people for making stupid criticisms, and then you make stupid criticisms. Is mispronouncing Trump's wife's name and comparing her to a morbid character on a 50 year old sitcom really all that much more brilliant than dissing Obama as "the Kenyan?" You're an educated guy. Surely you can recognize the reality of that.

3. It's like I said in a rant awhile back. I'm on MY team. I'm not on Trump's team. And I'm not on the opposition's team. I support Trump only on the positions I agree with. I don't support him on the positions I don't agree with. That's all there is to it.

ETA: 4: I didn't call you stupid any more than you called other forum members stupid for calling Obama Kenyan. I pointed out the irony of you calling that stupid, and then saying the same kind of thing.

 

[jamil]

I suppose it is normal for a person to assume that they are fair-minded and even-handed. Those of us who are, perhaps, a little more honest with ourselves will recognize that that is not always the case and, in fact, may not be the norm.

Even so, it does creep into one's thoughts that people who do not agree with us must have something wrong with them. That either something is lacking in their lives or, perhaps, they were dropped on their head as a child. LOL

As I said, this place can be an echo chamber or opposing views can be heard...even though those opposing views are not widely held by the membership.

Yes, I think Trump is unfit for office. The latest polling data I've seen shows over 1/2 the country doesn't like what they see.

So, was it I who was dropped on his head as a child, or was it thee?

I've long observed that of the people who agree with me, some are smarter than me and some dumber than me, and of people who disagree with me, some are smarter than me and some dumber than me. Some people build their ideological beliefs from ignorance, some through much observation and introspection. And yet some of each can agree or disagree with mine. I don't tend to put much time into thinking that someone who disagrees with me is automatically dumber than me. But I'll listen to their arguments, and how they've arrived at their beliefs, and make a judgement based on that.

As far as who was dropped on his head as a child, that's a false dichotomy. Neither one needs to be thought of as crazy for having opposing views. The comment I made wasn't about the correctness about your view of Trump anyway. As I said in the other post, it was about the irony (it doesn't qualify as hypocrisy, so I'm comfortable calling it irony) of your statement.

 

[actaeon277]

Rim shots abound this morning. I suppose that is funny is some cultures....like the group that voted for Trump because they enjoy fantasies of Eastern European women in leather with a foot on the couch in the West Wing. See Jamil for more info.

...but the reality is scarier. A blonde kneeling on the couch surrounded.

Not a "rimshot".
Apparently, you and several had a difficult time telling the difference.
I did not tell you or them what to think.

As for not knowing I was talking about Mr. Sanders when I said "socialist", it's what he has called himself. That honesty at least puts him a step up from the thief.
But if people want socialism, and say how great it is, why are they not moving?
We were founded to get away from that. There is no wall keeping people in.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

But if people want socialism, and say how great it is, why are they not moving?
We were founded to get away from that. There is no wall keeping people in.

To be fair, no country is necessarily guaranteed to keep it's values in perpetuity.

If the antifa and American Socialists think they have the numbers to make that sort of change here... by all means, put it to a vote. They've gotten policy moved in their way slowly over time, and that may very well be where we end up decades or a century from now. If they want it in their lifetime, however... then yeah, moving might be better.