Northwest Indiana Gun Owners # 25 good morning all.

[melensdad]

I'm semi-shopping for a vehicle. Not looking a sedans/cars...

In the running, Toyota Crown hybrid sedan, which is a 'raised sedan' and basically the same hight at a crossover, but looks like a sedan. I spec it out at roughly $53K

Fisker Ocean, a 340 mile range EV in compact SUV format. Cool vehicle, lots of tech. Not crazy priced given the EV range, but the Hybrids provide more luxury for less money. Price is close to $60K as I'd spec it out. But even at a high price, not as luxurious, not as much cargo room, and not as feature packed as a similar Hybrid. FWIW the Hyundai Ionic 5 is slightly larger, luxury is subjective so spec'd similarly it offers more storage space but FAR miles LESS range between charges

Hyundai 2024 Santa Fe Hybrid (to be officially announced in about 30 hours and shocking different than the 2023 variant) all new and totally redesigned SUV. Hybrid version of t. Early official photos and speculative specifications make it look awesome, probably about $50K as I'd spec it out. About 30mpg in Hybrid variant.

Toyota Venza Hybrid crossover "grand patents version of a n adventure SUV." About $48k full loaded and about 40mpg.

Near as I can tell I spend close to $2000 per vehicle on gasoline annually on a vehicle that gets about 30mpg and maybe $1500 if I got the 40mpg Crown or Venza. Probably about $200 annually on oil changes per vehicle. So that would continue with any Hybrid vehicle. And also near as I can figure, an EV would cost me about $700 in electric bills annually after I spend $1500 to $2000 for an AC charger to be acquired and installed. So annual savings is roughly $1000/year, if I pro-rate the cost of the charger + installation.

Is it worth spending and extra $8000* to get an EV to save $1000 per year?

* close apples to apples comparison, factoring in similar trim levels, similar features, etc.

 

[jedi]

Is it worth spending and extra $8000* to get an EV to save $1000 per year?

* close apples to apples comparison, factoring in similar trim levels, similar features, etc.

suspect the answer (right now) is no.
EV batteries claim they last 10 to 20 years. Cut that in half for our environment and to remove the "marketing fluff" and say 5 to 10 years.

U need to keep that car based on your numbers for 8 years to break even right?



2015 gas minivan is getting jedi this to around 32 mpg on highway to/from nwi to chiraqi and north to ohare when the van is loaded with tools/material as well.

 

[cg21]

suspect the answer (right now) is no.
EV batteries claim they last 10 to 20 years. Cut that in half for our environment and to remove the "marketing fluff" and say 5 to 10 years.

U need to keep that car based on your numbers for 8 years to break even right?

View attachment 291873

2015 gas minivan is getting jedi this to around 32 mpg on highway to/from nwi to chiraqi and north to ohare when the van is loaded with tools/material as well.

Wow you get much better mpg than me…. I wonder what the deal is? I just hit 26 on the highway and had to work for it….. same van

 

[mmpsteve]

I'm semi-shopping for a vehicle. Not looking a sedans/cars...

In the running, Toyota Crown hybrid sedan, which is a 'raised sedan' and basically the same hight at a crossover, but looks like a sedan. I spec it out at roughly $53K

Fisker Ocean, a 340 mile range EV in compact SUV format. Cool vehicle, lots of tech. Not crazy priced given the EV range, but the Hybrids provide more luxury for less money. Price is close to $60K as I'd spec it out. But even at a high price, not as luxurious, not as much cargo room, and not as feature packed as a similar Hybrid. FWIW the Hyundai Ionic 5 is slightly larger, luxury is subjective so spec'd similarly it offers more storage space but FAR miles LESS range between charges

Hyundai 2024 Santa Fe Hybrid (to be officially announced in about 30 hours and shocking different than the 2023 variant) all new and totally redesigned SUV. Hybrid version of t. Early official photos and speculative specifications make it look awesome, probably about $50K as I'd spec it out. About 30mpg in Hybrid variant.

Toyota Venza Hybrid crossover "grand patents version of a n adventure SUV." About $48k full loaded and about 40mpg.

Near as I can tell I spend close to $2000 per vehicle on gasoline annually on a vehicle that gets about 30mpg and maybe $1500 if I got the 40mpg Crown or Venza. Probably about $200 annually on oil changes per vehicle. So that would continue with any Hybrid vehicle. And also near as I can figure, an EV would cost me about $700 in electric bills annually after I spend $1500 to $2000 for an AC charger to be acquired and installed. So annual savings is roughly $1000/year, if I pro-rate the cost of the charger + installation.

Is it worth spending and extra $8000* to get an EV to save $1000 per year?

* close apples to apples comparison, factoring in similar trim levels, similar features, etc.

As a general response, I don't trust the EV side of the hybrid vehicles, yet. Not the concept, but the implementation. I'll go into more detail later, got to get moving now.

A non-EV economic comparison; you can get a top-of-the-line Subaru Outback, with 9 in of ground clearance and proven AWD system, with the turbocharger near 300 ft lb of torque, for about $42k. I'm getting about 25 mpg combined driving.

Plenty of cargo space, very comfortable ride, and a killer stereo system, for stock. There's a lot to like.

I'm not trying to rain on the EV parade, but for the money, it's not for me yet.

.

 

[cg21]

You can effectively move an aggressive dog with a broom rather than killing it depending on the situation - and the dog, but it takes balls, not a light saber.

Maybe one aggressive dog and a broom…. MAYBE but 6-7 aggressive dogs??(if you know what you’re getting into atleast he had lethal option) I don’t think it is big BALLS it takes I think it is small brain lol

Pack of dogs…. Attacking people? Need put down asap. Flame if you’d like.

 

[marvin02]

Flame if you’d like.

Flamethrower would probably be effective vs a pack of dogs.

 

[nonobaddog]

In the case of electric anything, from gun lights to power tools to EVs, you have to consider the cost of the batteries.
In the case of EVs, you have to consider the resale value as well. That technology is changing very fast and the current models will be moving toward being obsolete in a short time, even if you replace the batteries.

 

[radar8756]

Morning ... Vacation half over - stopped home to "feed" cats

 

[darkkevin]

Wow you get much better mpg than me…. I wonder what the deal is? I just hit 26 on the highway and had to work for it….. same van

maybe he has a team of racoons running under it fred flintstone style adding power

 

[jedi]

Wow you get much better mpg than me…. I wonder what the deal is? I just hit 26 on the highway and had to work for it….. same van

What speed are you going?
Do you have the "eco" button turned on?

jedi has noticed that 62 mph is the sweet spot. Set the cruise at that and it's all good. Get behind a semi at 55 to 58 and it's even better.

From the limited Google searches jedi has done its due to wind resistance and this van being a box. Higher speeds causes too much drag and thus burns more gas.

 

[Max Volume]

what were you going to do with the broom?

The dogs were still moving towards people. I was pushing the broom into their faces as a form of defense because I couldn't find a bat. It was the old style witch's broom and yes, had to watch my 6 and keep turning around. They never got closer than 4-5 feet from me.

 

[sadclownwp]

Honestly, even the car manufacturers are not, I repeat are not, confident in EV's. I've been there. I've worked with the engineers. I know people designing the manufacturing of the components. None of them are confident enough in EV's to buy one. The ones that have them only lease them year by year.

 

[jedi]

Another issue to consider with EV and it's one that the fire department and the national fire association is struggling with right now is how to handle ev fires.

The game plan right now is massive, massive amounts of water. Sprinkler systems in commercial garages are not capable of doing that. In a house it's bye bye.

They are working on foams and other liquids but it's costly and not easily available yet.

Normally the fire codes don't get updated until mankind learns the hard way and the loss of lives occurs.

 

[B40B]

Another issue to consider with EV and it's one that the fire department and the national fire association is struggling with right now is how to handle ev fires.

The game plan right now is massive, massive amounts of water. Sprinkler systems in commercial garages are not capable of doing that. In a house it's bye bye.

They are working on foams and other liquids but it's costly and not easily available yet.

Normally the fire codes don't get updated until mankind learns the hard way and the loss of lives occurs.

The foams are there. Unfortunately, city fire depts. and their engines do not support the use of foam. When I worked on airports in the Army, AFFF was the common foam for anything aircraft or electrical. (Even though we found out it is cancerous now, yay) One of the major issues is getting the foam in the hose stream. ARF vehicles have it built in, city vehicles have to use outdated siphon systems that most crews don't have on the trucks, ala lots of water.

 

[klausm]

The dogs were still moving towards people. I was pushing the broom into their faces as a form of defense because I couldn't find a bat. It was the old style witch's broom and yes, had to watch my 6 and keep turning around. They never got closer than 4-5 feet from me.

next time try a real long extension cord and a vacuum sweeper

 

[nonobaddog]

Someday the batteries will get better.
Someday the charging issues will get better.
Someday they won't cost so much more than they should.
Someday they won't burn up so bad.
Someday isn't here yet.

 

[marvin02]

next time try a real long extension cord and a vacuum sweeper

Cordless is the only way to go!

 

[nonobaddog]

Cordless is the only way to go!

Jab a cordless sawzall in their nose and they might turn around.

 

[Quiet Observer]

I like gasoline cars for the quick fill-ups. Drive 350 miles and ready to go in 5 minutes after refueling. Drive EV 350 miles and need hours to recharge. Are there going to be enough charging stations at my destination? If I stay with family 3 or 4 states away, where do I recharge my EV?

 

[mmpsteve]

...

... jedi has noticed that 62 mph is the sweet spot.

Yep, I got 31 mpg on one trip in my Suby that was totally on state highways, avg 65 mph. I don't think it's even rated at 31, but it was very specific circumstances.

.