No doubt covered many times but.. Rounds Carried In Gun?

[warthog]

I see a lot of worry over the number of rounds that will fit into a firearm when considering it for carry, concealed or open. Most of the time I carry a revolver, specifically one of two, an S&W .327 FM Mdl 632 (6 shot, concealed usually) or a Ruger SP-101 .357 Mag. (5 shot, openly usually). I also carry a couple of speed-loaders to reload in case things get out of hand as well. I spend almost every Monday at the range practicing with these two weapons along with my new carry piece, a Ruger LC9 (7+1 rounds of 9mm plus 2, 7 round mags as reloads). I do this so that I can be reasonable certain to be able to hit the target with my shots. I practice so that it becomes muscle memory to draw and fire those first few shots along with practicing my reloading so it too is something I can do without looking or worry. I also do clearing drills with my new pistol so I can get familiar with clearing jams without having to panic and worry about needing to do a lot of thinking about doing it. Enough about me though, now to the questions I have:

Why the worry over round count? If you're worried about concealability then why not consider a thinner weapon? Why get fixed on having more rounds? I makes sense to me at least to look for a more concealable which to me means thinner and smaller.

So my main question is why so concerned about the number of rounds a firearm has in it if concealability is what you are more concerned with?

 

[88E30M50]

It's better to have too many rounds with you than too few. If I'm going to error, it will be by carrying more ammo than needed. I do understand the argument though, in that the average gun fight only lasts a couple of rounds but if I'm ever in a gun fight, the law of averages has already abandoned me.

 

[Birds Away]

Carry what you shoot best. Carry how you like.

 

[Bennettjh]

I don't necessarily "worry" about round count. I do carry as many as I can though (6+1), one in chamber, full mag.

I'm in the camp of practice, practice, practice and make your shots count.

 

[eldirector]

I suppose it all depends on what YOUR needs are. You require conceal-ability before available rounds. Others are more than willing to trade concealment for more (or even larger) rounds.

I struck a balance that I feel comfortable with. I'm at 9+1, and a spare 9.

Having more than is necessary is a minor inconvenience. Having less would be a major problem.

 

[warthog]

I am not advocating anything here. I am simply wondering why someone, a hypothetic someone, woul post something along the lines of:

I currently carry Firearm X which holds X rounds. In the summer though I have trouble concealing it so now I wonder what to do. Is there a method to carry FREARM X that is easier to conceal? I also like Firearm Y but it holds 2 rounds less than Firearm X so I am hesitant to make this my carry gun. Can anyone help?

Now this is not aimed at anyone, it is something I have seen more than a few times. It seems odd to me to worry about two or three rounds and this is the usual spread involved in the "other" weapon choice.
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I carry what I carry, I am not looking for advice. I already know what I like and carry it. I am looking to get more into this sort of mindset of worrying about not having a couple of rounds if the season changes and there are fewer clothes t conceal a larger firearm. I carry reloads and practice reloading but i do get that having them already in the gun is faster than having to reload. I also practice trying to withdraw from the situation. I'm not looking to arrest the perp, I just want to get away and live to fight another day. If stopping the attacker is possible this is the best way to manage this but if not, then I am not going to stay there and fight it out with them. I doubt that the situation would ever be so bad either as a lot of gun fire tends to draw a lot of police. I am all about letting THEM do the gun fighting, that is their job not mine. My LTCH was a deputization so my reason to carry isn't to fight crime, it is to stop someone from harming me or a loved one.
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I say all of this in a futile attempt to keep the thread on topic.

 

[Leo]

As many as the firearm will carry. You are not there to attack the forces of an evil army. You carry so you have a chance to get the heck out of dodge. In the early days of the wonder 9's being issued for police duty, there were many documented incidents of multiple officer firefights with multiple rounds fired, being rectified by a single shot or two from the revolver of a more experienced officer.

Guns and weapons for law enforcement magazine has three LEO firefight analysis articles every month. I subscribed to that magazine for 6 or 7 years.

I do not believe that a high cap pistol will guarantee me a better outcome than a carry pistol and situational awareness mixed with rational thinking, at least in a defensive situation.

 

[Birds Away]

I usually carry my compact (16+1). Sometimes I carry my sub-compact (14+1). During the winter I am more likely to carry a full size (19+1). Three of them have safeties and one has a decocker but I carry them all the same, on half-cock with one in the pipe. These guns have been set up so that the triggers are virtually identical. It's just what I like. I have no problem with people choosing something else. I made my decisions based upon what I thought was best for me. I think you, and everyone else, should do the same. The important thing is to practice and become as proficient as you can with whatever you choose to carry. I am comfortable with my setup. You seem comfortable with yours. It's all good. Go forth and be safe.

 

[Tactical Flannel]

I'm in the frame of thought that I've never heard anyone say they had to much ammo in a gun a fight.
Everyone has their favorite platform/caliber. I personally believe that I carry in a manner that allows me to bring what I feel is appropriate in an EDC manner without looking like a mall ninja.
And yes, there is no substitute for practice. But with equal amounts of practice, I prefer a platform that allows me to carry a lot of bullets rather than fewer. Within practical caliber reason. IE... not carrying a 100 rounds of .22lr in place of 15 45 ACP. But may carry 31 rds of .40S&W in place of 15 .45ACP.
Obviously a personal preference but my take on the capacity argument.

Stay safe

 

[cosermann]

On what should one base the number of rounds one prefers to carry? One's gut? One's experience? Statistics?

Recent lethal-force statistics suggest the current avg is 8 rounds per incident [1].

The old avg of 2-3 rnds has increased over the years; a bit because of the shift from revolvers to autos, but more significantly due to changes in handgun tactics.

The incidence of situations involving multiple attackers is also increasing. Should that factor into one's calculus? I think so.

Can one get by with less? Maybe? Who knows? It depends.

As you decrease the number of rounds carried, the probability that you won't have enough (if a situation arises) increases. They are inversely related.

If friends ask me, for the above reasons I suggest they consider something with a payload of at least 8 rounds if they can. Most end up with something on the order of 15 rounds (and carry a spare mag).

You pays your money and you takes your chances.

[1] - John Farnam - Enough Ammunition

 

[warthog]

All good reason, thanks for the information. Remember, I am not advocating anything nor am I trying to change anyone's mind. I am a firm believer in carrying what you are comfortable carrying. Otherwise you are likely to leave it home and then where are you? I also think that if you are going to carry, you should practice with the firearm you are carrying. Not doing so is irresponsible as this leads to misses and this can lead to unintended casualties making all of use look bad. Not just practicing your shooting either but your draw, reloads and clearing the firearm from failures since all of these things can lead to added stress in an already stressful situation which then leads to misses etc..

So thanks again for your insights on the subject.

 

[tj_v89]

It's better to have too many rounds with you than too few. If I'm going to error, it will be by carrying more ammo than needed. I do understand the argument though, in that the average gun fight only lasts a couple of rounds but if I'm ever in a gun fight, the law of averages has already abandoned me.

^this. If you're in a gun fight, then your're probably having about the worst day of your life. Why not be as over prepared as possible?

Plus you mention all this training that you do shooting a paper targets that don't move and dont fire back or don't advance on you in a life threatening manner...i'd imagine the real thing would induce a tad more stress...probably wouldn't take very long to shoot 5 rounds rapidly....then there's the issue of diggin around in your pants for your speedloaders...

 

[HoughMade]

Everything is a compromise, but the "more rounds rather than less" seems to make sense to me......and this: Newhall massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[dtkw]

Do you have any real enemies? IF yes, how many are there? Don't know? then the more the better. Say if you're confronted by a gang of people who only thinking of harming you, then again, the more the better, sort of like money. But if you had to shoot, shoot the leader first. So, make sure you know who is the leader of the gang attacking or cornering you. Not sure you can do that? Practice and more practice. Master your skills, like Casey used to say. Oh well, hope that you'd never have to shoot anyone tho.

 

[warthog]

I have no doubt that practice is different than when "it" happens and frankly I have had "it" happen once so I can be sure it isn't the same. I only had to raw, not fire but I can assure you the adrenaline was pumping and things changed fast from stressful to REALLY STRESSED in picoseconds. I almost made a little pee-pee in my pants too but managed to control that...

So yes, I know practice isn't the same as the real thing. I do try to make it more stressful by adding a timer and other sorts of stress though. Practice is meant to build muscle memory and reactions that will help reduce your stress, not make you feel no stress. As far as I know, I have no real enemies who would wish me harm. As for situations with gang members etc, situational awareness and trying to avoid areas prone to such activities helps me avoid a lot of these things. As for fumbling around for my reloads, you assume much here. I had a friend who works leather make me holders so I know where my reloads will be in my pocket, both for the LC9 magazines and for the speed-loaders. It's all about being prepared. I don;t keep anything but my reloads or handgun in my pockets either so nothing is there to fumble around with either. When I open carry, I wear my reloads on my belt and I practice both methods of carry. This can cause some confusion I realize so I am starting to make a decision to only carry concealed. This is because I have family in Florida and I can't carry openly there so to make things simple, I will carry concealed all the time.

I tend also to carry more than one firearm. It is faster to grab another gun sometimes than to reload the one you have. It is also nice to have an extra to hand to someone, say one of my friends from Illinois where I lived before, so they can back me up. It is also faster to get the back up out if you primary has a level 3 jam. So carrying more than one firearm for me makes sense as well. I rarely carry reloads for the BUG however so maybe I should make that a habit too. I do practice with it though as much as I do with my primary.


Anyway, that again is me and not at all what this is about. I am starting to better understand the whole worry about a couple of rounds difference though. It makes sense in that it is a personal thing and each person should be comfortable and confident that what they carry is the right choice for them. Confidence in your equipment is as important as familiarity with it in my book.

 

[Sonney]

I carry my 9mm Walter mostly concealed but it will print. I don't worry too much about it because I live in an open carry state. The ones that need to worry are the one that live in states that only allow conceal carry. If you see mine I don't mind I just don't broadcast it. I just have one mag and it is a 15+2 hope that is all I need.

Sonney

 

[dtkw]

Do not use reload for defense, use factory loads. If you didn't kill the perp, his lawyer would twist the fact you're using reloads, you must be adding some deadly stuffs or whatever to do more damage to his client. Learned that from a LAPD officers when I was living there then.

 

[warthog]

by reloads I mean more rounds to put into the firearm, not reloaded ammunition.

 

[dtkw]

OK, I got it.

 

[SkullDaddy.45]

I agree that it's depends on the caliber preference, I carry a .45 80% of the time. When I do carry my LC9 I always carry extra mags. I have more faith in my .45 getting the job done with one pull of the trigger.