New old thread: Eagle Creek range $6.50 per visit turned into $13 today

[doublebarrel]

Today (actually I should say yesterday now, it was October 24, 2009, from 2:30pm to 3:20pm), I visited Eagle Creek again. No, they didn't close early this time (but I didn't get there as late as 3:20pm either: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ustomers_future_and_present-2.html#post608347), matter of fact there were quite a few people shooting despite of the cold. Many of them were there when I got there, and were still there when I left. What I'm griping/complaining/ranting about is, I got charged $13 for my time there, twice as much as any other time in the last year (two holes in my 10-visit pass). This is exactly what happened to me, almost exactly one year ago, that I gripped/complained/ranted in this thread (https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo.../11428-question_eagle_creek_10_vist_pass.html)...

There were two ROs working at EC today. One that I remember seeing there a lot (maybe he was Disposable Heart?), the other, tall guy in gray fuzzy jacket, was the one doing the punching. He asked if my wife was going to do the shooting, I said yes. Then I thought of what happened a year ago. I made it clear that, we both would be shooting on just ONE lane, taking turns to shoot. We'd be using the same amount of resources as any other shooter on any other lane (matter of fact, we don't even use their targets that are available there free. We use our own Shoot-N-C. We use even less of their resources). He insisted that he needed to punch TWO holes in my pass. He said this was the rules set up by their superiors. I told him that every time I shot there, I got punched one hole for me and the wife (not counting what happened on Oct. 19, 2008). I told him that includes Steve (sjstill, INGunOwners - View Profile: sjstill), the range master at EC. He wouldn't change his mind, saying rules were to charge $6.50 PER SHOOTER. Even came down to my shooting position showing me the printed rules what they charge, pointing at the words "per shooter". The other RO just sit there didn't say a word. Maybe didn't want to openly disagree with his colleague, since he never gave me this two-hole theory through out the year...

Now, Steve posted on Oct. 19, 2008 (https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...tion_eagle_creek_10_vist_pass.html#post134331), that, quote:

--

Normally, I tell the guys (especially for a husband/wife), if you are sharing 1 lane on a pass, just punch it 1 time. Not sure if whomever punched the card misunderstood you or what.

Next visit is on me (but don't tell anyone I'm a nice guy, it'll ruin my rep....).

That was my wife you bought the pass from, and her sidekick is Missy, the wonder dog.

edited to add: There might be some misinterpretation about having a whole gaggle of folks on one 'punch'. IF everyone is sharing 1 lane, 1 gun, 1 target, then I could probably go for that. If the group takes up 2 or 3 or 4 spots, then I'm going to punch however many spots are taken up. Does that make sense?

--

I'd like to ask Steve, does this still stand? I never take you up on your offer of a free visit. If next time that guy is still there doing the punching work, can I give him your words that I got a free visit "credit" on the house, from you for my wife?... (The wife didn't enjoy the shoot much today. She doesn't like cold weather at all, and the second hole killed the little desire to shoot she had left. She fired a few rounds out of her Buckmark, tried one mag in my 1911 but missed the entire target completely, then stood around doing the shivering the rest of the time.)

By the time I was ready to leave, there were 5 to 6 guys standing next to the punching stand and chatting. The tall fuzzy-jacket "two-hole-punching" guy was talking how EC didn't make any profit, was short funded these days, because people weren't paying for their visit, that their superiors weren't very happy about this. So now I understand why I got double-tapped today. Can Steve please make it clear for me (and every one else interested) here that, EC is now officially charging PER SHOOTER, regardless how much (or little) resources they are using? ... Thanks!

(Hope that free visit credit is still good...)

 

[Indecision]

That's some crap, but at the same time the places I go to charge per person. It's like $8 for one person, $14 for two. That's how most of the places I've been were like.

 

[aclark]

I've never been to EC, and dont know all the specifics about the place, but by just reading the story I think that the RO did the right thing. Granted there seems to be some miscommunication between the ROs and their superiors, but as far as you getting 2 punches I would say that was the proper way to charge 2 shooters, even if they are sharing a lane.

I hope you can get this cleared up one way or another, but I hope you don't get too upset if they decide that the 2 punch way was the correct way to handle it.

 

[Disposable Heart]

Actually, I was the one in the peacoat.

In any other: We normally punch PER shooter, not PER visit. This has been the long established situation.

I have several issues with your arguement here:
1. I don't recall if your wife shot when I got back from lunch. If that is the case, then we would punch two. If Steve does it different, that is HIS perrogative (spelling), we have SOP to follow.
2. I am wondering as to why you did not address this with Steve to begin with? You have his user name, talk to him regarding it. IMHO, it is very low road to disparage an organization unless ALL routes of solving a conflict have been pursued.

Our range is (with the 10 visit) still the cheapest in town. 6.50 PER PERSON (as slathered all over our papers at the range, all over the website, etc...) has always been the norm with the 10 visit pass. Steve may have allowed something once, but when he is not there, we are required to follow the SOP there. Even if Steve is there, we have to follow procedures, unless overridden by him.

This is my initial reaction to this, I am highly disappointed you decided to take care of this in open forum, instead of efficiently talking it over in private, then getting mad when it doesn't work. The idea of open forum is to discuss things of this nature at last resort.

 

[doublebarrel]

Highly disappointed? Yeah, me too. Because I've been through this, exactly a year ago. And throughout the year, we always go together, we always get one punch per visit, no matter who's doing the punching. I'm not mad, however you'd interpret my post. I'm posting it in the public forum because it IS the place for us to exchange ideas, experiences, etc. Others might like to know how EC is run, how the rules are interpreted, etc. I've shooting there for about a year and half now (not every weekend, though). The rules have been applied differently twice, so far. I reported both times in this forum. If that kind of reporting is prohibited, I hope the mods would step up and tell me...

I don't have any say in the setting up of your rules. But I'd like to see some consistency and logic in the applying of them. Like I said, only twice in the long time had I seen rules applied different, not as you said "always been the norm". Otherwise I wouldn't be so surprised, would I? I know other places, like Pop Guns, allow second peron on the same lane for an additional $5. That was the reason I asked how EC would charge the very first day I shot there. The answer I got was, if only one lane was used, only one person would be shooting any given time, no matter how many I'd bring over, it'd still be $6.50 per day...

Anyway, thanks for your reply. I'll still shoot at your range (till the 10 visit pass run out. Should be pretty quick from now on). It is a nice place to shoot, and still the cheapest probably. It's been the only place that I shoot at. But as the actual cost doubles, I'd check and see if there are other comparable options out there...

 

[Clay]

"all I ask for in life is consistency"

 

[4sarge]

"all I ask for in life is consistency"

Agreed, Rules should be enforced equally for everyone. If Steve is the head honcho one would think that his interpretation of the rules would be followed by all. Consistency is life's little road map

 

[sjstill]

OK, here's the deal;

If a couple is forced to share a lane due to having a full line, then generally, we will only punch once.

If there are sufficient lanes open, and both people are shooting, then a pass gets two (or 3 or 4) punches.

If the shooters only have 1 gun to shoot between them, then generally, we will punch once.

To be honest, I don't always follow the rules, and people have come to expect my kindness for the norm.

No longer. There will be strict intrepertation of the rules from this point on, no exceptions.

You will not find a cheaper place to shoot in Indy, whether you buy a single day pass at 20.00, or a 10-visit pass at 65.00. Definitely won't find a safer place.

As for the 2010 season, who knows. December 20, 2009 will be my last day with Eagle Creek. I'm tired of people whining and crying and moaning and groaning about what they can and can't do, and how how "mean" my staff is. I did my best to make EC a family friendly place, but it is never enough for some folks.

 

[Joe Williams]

Did you take two lanes, since that's what you paid for? It may be a pain to be charged for both, but if you are it's kind of nice to be able to spread your stuff out instead of being all crowded.

 

[phatgemi]

OK, here's the deal;

If a couple is forced to share a lane due to having a full line, then generally, we will only punch once.

If there are sufficient lanes open, and both people are shooting, then a pass gets two (or 3 or 4) punches.

If the shooters only have 1 gun to shoot between them, then generally, we will punch once.

To be honest, I don't always follow the rules, and people have come to expect my kindness for the norm.

No longer. There will be strict intrepertation of the rules from this point on, no exceptions.

You will not find a cheaper place to shoot in Indy, whether you buy a single day pass at 20.00, or a 10-visit pass at 65.00. Definitely won't find a safer place.

As for the 2010 season, who knows. December 20, 2009 will be my last day with Eagle Creek. I'm tired of people whining and crying and moaning and groaning about what they can and can't do, and how how "mean" my staff is. I did my best to make EC a family friendly place, but it is never enough for some folks.

This is a good example of what happens when you don't have clear cut policies and ensure adherence to them.

 

[tharlow514]

This is a good example of what happens when you don't have clear cut policies and ensure adherence to them.

The policies ARE clear cut. I work there as well and would have given him two punches-one for each person shooting- and I think every other employee would have as well with the exception of the head RO and that is at his discretion. Every RO follows the rules we are given in our manuals when hired. It has nothing to do with "Eagle Creek not getting much business and that is why you got two punches" claim.
I have shot at many other ranges and this range is among the best. Good luck finding a place that you can shoot for 6.50 per person FOR A WHOLE DAY- not per hour or 1/2 hour like most places.

 

[Joe Williams]

The policies ARE clear cut. I work there as well and would have given him two punches-one for each person shooting- and I think every other employee would have as well with the exception of the head RO and that is at his discretion. Every RO follows the rules we are given in our manuals when hired. It has nothing to do with "Eagle Creek not getting much business and that is why you got two punches" claim.
I have shot at many other ranges and this range is among the best. Good luck finding a place that you can shoot for 6.50 per person FOR A WHOLE DAY- not per hour or 1/2 hour like most places.

It costs my family of three $50 per year to shoot, camp, and fish. We can shoot rifle, handgun, muzzleloader, shotgun, or bow. And we can shoot anytime we want, for as long as we want. Course, it's about an hour's drive from Indy, but there's no free lunch!

 

[Prometheus]

I have a friend who would have approached this the same way. Because kindness was extended to him X times before, he'd DEMAND it again and again and then get indignant if the favors didn't continue.

He also wouldn't think he was in the wrong either. Some people are never happy.

+1 to SJstill for being a heck of a guy in the past.

The only time I'd ask to pay for one (instead of two) is if I was forced to use the same lane due to over crowding.

In fact once I mentioned after shooting that the wife and I had to share the lane because they were so busy (at Deb's) and they gave me the money back for her. I didn't even ask.

 

[doublebarrel]

I'm sorry but, they are NOT clear cut. I didn't just went to EC once on 10/19/2008, then again on 10/24/2009, and EXPECTED both times that I could buy twice and pay just once. That's not what happened here. I expect to follow YOUR rules, and pay accordingly, AND consistently. It's like a beggar coming to your doorstep and begs for food. The door has the rules posted saying "everyone gets one slice of bread per visit, no exceptions". Well, I got two slices for a couple months, then got one on one day. Then I got two slices every time for another year, then it was back to one slice, and was told that it had been all clear cut. I know I don't have the right to say how many slices of bread I DESERVE, but letting everyone else know what happened on those two EXCEPTIONAL days, is asking/expecting too much? Besides, for the very first day, I did ASK how your rules would work for MY "special" case, that is, me and the wife, one lane, one person shooting at a time. Not just one gun between us but only one gun would be firing at any given time. I got my response loud and clear. If I was told, and treated one way, even if it's not the POSTED way, should I assume that it was THE interpreted way?...

Like I said, I don't set the rules, nor do I expect it should be set one way or another. I do expect there to be some consistency. Now Steve has made it clear that from now on, it's PER SHOOTER, not PER LANE. I'll follow that rule, no more questions...

The policies ARE clear cut. I work there as well and would have given him two punches-one for each person shooting- and I think every other employee would have as well with the exception of the head RO and that is at his discretion. Every RO follows the rules we are given in our manuals when hired. It has nothing to do with "Eagle Creek not getting much business and that is why you got two punches" claim.
I have shot at many other ranges and this range is among the best. Good luck finding a place that you can shoot for 6.50 per person FOR A WHOLE DAY- not per hour or 1/2 hour like most places.

 

[IndyBeerman]

I'm sorry but, they are NOT clear cut.

Never been to EC, but here's my take....

You have seen the rules, you have acknowledged it that states 1 punch for each person, you have stated that the "boss" has granted you some extended benefits, but did he tell you that you will be extended for every visit, no he did not, he granted you some extra privileges that you just took for granted that it should be extended each and every time and because of that you have you've now become part of the whiny crying crew that still thinks that they are getting the shaft for a bargain price of $13.00 for all day shooting for two.

Try that at Wyatt's, Pop Guns, Atterbury or god forbid Don's guns for that price. Nope not gonna happen, they charge by the hour.

As for the 2010 season, who knows. December 20, 2009 will be my last day with Eagle Creek. I'm tired of people whining and crying and moaning and groaning about what they can and can't do, and how how "mean" my staff is. I did my best to make EC a family friendly place, but it is never enough for some folks.

Congratulations and be proud that you make up part of the above bunch.

Now put your hands in your pockets, turn around and drop your head and pout like a good little boy. If you have a hard time imaging on how to do this, watch one episode of the Andy Griffith Show and Opie or Barney will teach ya real good on how to do it.

Disclaimer: be-och when it's written and you don't get what you pay for, otherwise smile you have looked the gift horse in the mouth and been blessed.

 

[turnandshoot4]

OK, here's the deal;

If a couple is forced to share a lane due to having a full line, then generally, we will only punch once.

If there are sufficient lanes open, and both people are shooting, then a pass gets two (or 3 or 4) punches.

If the shooters only have 1 gun to shoot between them, then generally, we will punch once.

To be honest, I don't always follow the rules, and people have come to expect my kindness for the norm.

No longer. There will be strict intrepertation of the rules from this point on, no exceptions.

You will not find a cheaper place to shoot in Indy, whether you buy a single day pass at 20.00, or a 10-visit pass at 65.00. Definitely won't find a safer place.

As for the 2010 season, who knows. December 20, 2009 will be my last day with Eagle Creek. I'm tired of people whining and crying and moaning and groaning about what they can and can't do, and how how "mean" my staff is. I did my best to make EC a family friendly place, but it is never enough for some folks.

This is a great example of "no good deed goes unpunished."

doublebarrel, what you are asking for is what you got. The rules enforced to the T. You were done a favor and now you will never have that favor again.

You will now be following the rules every time. And paying per shooter. Shame. This should have just been a "thanks for letting my wife shoot for free last time."

 

[doublebarrel]

If that was the case, I'd keep my mouth shut, wouldn't I? You think someone sneaked out of Walmart with a free candy bar, would tell all the world to try that and assume it'd be the norm? If you read from the beginning, from last year, you'd see what the rules, as they explained to me, WAS one punch per lane. Did you see Steve's post from last year as compared to year, what the difference is? The rule. It's changed now. That's what I said in my last post. I'll follow the NEW rules, whatever they say, and don't ask why it's different, why it wasn't clear cut, and so forth. It WASN"T a favor, mind you. I ASKED how the rule would work the very first time, I got the answer, and it wasn't "Here's a special favor, take it and hush up". They revoked their answer, I'll follow again, since I don't get a say in the rules. Just commented how it's changed, twice. Again, I have no more questions...

Never been to EC, but here's my take....

You have seen the rules, you have acknowledged it that states 1 punch for each person, you have stated that the "boss" has granted you some extended benefits,

 

[Indecision]

Normally, I tell the guys (especially for a husband/wife), if you are sharing 1 lane on a pass, just punch it 1 time. Not sure if whomever punched the card misunderstood you or what.

Next visit is on me (but don't tell anyone I'm a nice guy, it'll ruin my rep....).

That was my wife you bought the pass from, and her sidekick is Missy, the wonder dog.

edited to add: There might be some misinterpretation about having a whole gaggle of folks on one 'punch'. IF everyone is sharing 1 lane, 1 gun, 1 target, then I could probably go for that. If the group takes up 2 or 3 or 4 spots, then I'm going to punch however many spots are taken up. Does that make sense?

OK, here's the deal;

If a couple is forced to share a lane due to having a full line, then generally, we will only punch once.

If there are sufficient lanes open, and both people are shooting, then a pass gets two (or 3 or 4) punches.

If the shooters only have 1 gun to shoot between them, then generally, we will punch once.

To be honest, I don't always follow the rules, and people have come to expect my kindness for the norm.

No longer. There will be strict intrepertation of the rules from this point on, no exceptions.

You will not find a cheaper place to shoot in Indy, whether you buy a single day pass at 20.00, or a 10-visit pass at 65.00. Definitely won't find a safer place.

As for the 2010 season, who knows. December 20, 2009 will be my last day with Eagle Creek. I'm tired of people whining and crying and moaning and groaning about what they can and can't do, and how how "mean" my staff is. I did my best to make EC a family friendly place, but it is never enough for some folks.

I completely agree with the OP, he WAS told that the card would only be punched once. How is it his job to know that what he was originally told was not a rule but a "hey, i'm a nice guy exception." I would be irritated too if I was told one thing, had it be that way for an entire year, then have it changed and be told "that's always been the rule."

Granted, I would PMed sjstill. Asked for an explanation because of my confusion. Then posted saying that they punch per person, in opposed to how it was handled. So +1 for the info, -1 for delivery.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

Good luck finding a place that you can shoot for 6.50 per person FOR A WHOLE DAY- not per hour or 1/2 hour like most places.

Try $18 a half hour at Don's and $18 an hour at Pop's! ECPR is a bargain! Yes it is outdoors but it's covered and more than adequate in bad weather.

 

[henktermaat]

Come to think of it - I think my card was punched once when I brought a guest. I didn't expect it, and it doesn't happen everytime... I chalk that up to the awesomeness and generosity of the staff there.