New deer guns for 09' Season

[RelicHound]

depredation permits are a crock! and are seriously abused in this state. I wish they would do away with them or atleast adjust the rules.

 

[fireball168]

I'm opposed to ANY depredation permits of any kind.

depredation permits are a crock!

...and are seriously abused in this state.

It is easy to feel that way, if it isn't your paycheck that is being eaten.

 

[jtmarine1911]

That is so wasteful.. no matter the reason for the kill, you should be able to field strip it, keep it and eat it. I'm not cool with any killing of any animal and being wasteful.. if you kill it, you should eat it.. bottom line.

If you don't do the above.. you are a poacher.. and I have a serious problem with poachers.

I agree with you here MACHINEGUN! I have heard stories of people getting permits that allowed them to take bucks but had to turn the antlers in, and take does and had to let them lay. The permits my uncle has gotten stated CLEARLY that you could only shoot does and the meat had to be consumed and that the issue tag had to stay with the meat til it was exhausted. My family and I ate every doe I shot except one that had been injured and the wound turned septic.

 

[jtmarine1911]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtmarine1911

And come on and admit it people, you know as well as I do that it they allow rifle calibers there are going to be plenty of idiots out there that go buy the fastest, flatest shooting cartridge they can get by with ...


My PCR business is based on the folks you are calling idiots.

It has been my experience thus far, that anyone with the interest and dedication to pay the price of admission on top of making their own ammunition have exclusively been dedicated, more than experienced hunters.

Will that change with common off the shelf chamberings that anyone can buy? Time will tell if the regulations get changed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jtmarine1911
......took a total of 17 deer with a Mod.70 in 308Win with shots ranging from a little under a 100yds to out past 600yds. Yes it was doping the shot....

Hmm..

First of all, if you are going to quote some do it in entirety instead of quote in half a sentence to make them sound like a hypocrite like the Liberal Media.

I did have the oppritunity the past 2yrs to take deer on depradation pwermits and took a total of 17 deer with a Mod.70 in 308Win with shots ranging from a little under a 100yds to out past 600yds. Yes it was doping the shot and the satisfaction of a perfect hit at those ranges, but in the hunting aspect there was no excitement.

Second, don't speak to me about the price of admission. I have payed more than the price of admission for my equipment and with the money, time, effort, and research that I have put into the 19 different calibers I handload.

The price of admission I will not pay is the inclusion into the group of idiots that will jeapordize the safety of fellow hunters and non-hunters just because they can use a bigger gun for deer.

I will admit that there are areas in Indiana that it would be safe to use a High-power rifle cartridge, but there are more areas that are not safe to use one than there are safe. And if it were restricted to certain areas and counties that high-power hunt were allowed then you would see an increase in land leasing and purchases in those areas, putting more people in those areas with bigger smoke poles and again increasing the safety risk. To me a human life and general safety is more important than making some cash on leasing land or wildcating a new cartridge just to bypass a law.

Don't get me wrong there, I welcome new wildcats with open arms, gives me something to look forward to get my hands on and shoot.

It is easy to feel that way, if it isn't your paycheck that is being eaten.

And here, I couldn't agree more!

 

[jtmarine1911]

For excitement it sounds like bow hunting is for you.

It is funny that you say that, I have just gotten back into archery this past year. It had been 16 years since I last picked one up and I had totally forgotten how much fun it was.

 

[JBob77]

Ok, Sorry I derailed the thread, but I kinda feel like I was getting flamed for what I posted. I didn't say that I agreed with not ketting to keep the meat, I just stated what I heard about the permits, from my Dad and Uncle (both have farmed all of their lives) so if I offended anyone or gave incorrect information, I apologize. But, I also stated that he needed to contact an authority on the subject as well. That I never claimed to be. I do not have a problem with the permits, as long as they are not abused, and are a necessary tool to help protect some family's livelihood. I am a hunter but was a farmers son first. Tough situation to be in sometimes.

Anyway, back to the original topic, I picked up my copy of the 09-10 regulations last week, and no changes had been made as of printing. However, there was a notation that some changes to the laws were being considered and revisions would be found online if necessary.

 

[AmericanBob]

of course they'll allow 30-30, i just spent all my gun money for the year building a nice slug gun.

 

[42769vette]

It is easy to feel that way, if it isn't your paycheck that is being eaten.

+100 a neibor of mine was in the farm week a few years back for having 8000$ crop damage in 1 year and that was when 2 dollar a bushel corn was high. you figure in todays market that would be about 24000 dollars. id be pretty pissed at the deer myself.

on a side note i picked up a new hunting regulation book today and it said nothing about a 30-30

 

[Rlee]

on a side note i picked up a new hunting regulation book today and it said nothing about a 30-30

Sorry, this is a terrible cut and paste job.

The Indiana NRC Advisory Council will hold a public meeting concerning: Hunting, Trapping, Taking Mammals/Deer, Administrative Cause 09-088D.

The meeting will take place on July 14, 2009 at 6:00 p.m., EDT, in the Garrison, Ballroom, Fort Harrison State Park.


Advisory Council Rule Suggestion Review:
Seasons/MuzzleloaderSeasons/Extend ArcherySeasons/Move Firearms Out of the RutSeasons/Doe Only SeasonSeasons/Reduce Firearms SeasonNon-Resident LicensesHunter OrangeBuck & Doe Tags1 License for All Deer SeasonsYouth SeasonAllowing Youth to Take BuckMuzzleloader & Primitive FirearmsIncrease Rifle CalibersCarry & Load Time RegulationsCrossbow during Archery SeasonAntler RestrictionsBan on SpotlightingDepredationOver-Population/Under-PopulationOne Buck Rule“Earn-A-Buck”Buck Identification2 Buck (1 Archery & 1 Firearm)

 

[Jack Ryan]

It is easy to feel that way, if it isn't your paycheck that is being eaten.

Coons and ground hogs do as much crop damage as deer ever do. All it takes is hunting to control them.

It is my paycheck they are eating and has been for the last 50 years.
How Farm Subsidies Harm Taxpayers, Consumers, and Farmers, Too

 

[fireball168]

Coons and ground hogs do as much crop damage as deer ever do.

I have yet to see anybody pass up a groundhog or a racoon due to sex or size.

Although I have seen more than a few mounted on the mantle, and do have some recipes.

 

[Jack Ryan]

I have yet to see anybody pass up a groundhog or a racoon due to sex or size.

Although I have seen more than a few mounted on the mantle, and do have some recipes.

Thousands if not tens of thousands of racoons and ground hogs have been passed up, just like deer, because a land owner refuses hunting access to the people supporting him with tax payer subsidies. There is post after post on this board and hundreds of other boards just like them with people looking for ground to hunt. There's no reason in the world for the government to pass out get out of jail free cards like they were royal lordship grants to slaughter the king's deer.

Hunters support management and game animal habitat programs financially, the crops are subsidise and prices of those crops artificially high due to government programs, even the purchase of farm land is subsidised with low interest farmer programs that are not available to any other taxpayers who may have been paying taxes last year but not reporting farm income in the previous year.

Land, crops, and animals are all supported by hunters and the taxpayer in general and then the tending farmer wants to shoot them out of season right after the young are born. They want to use any kind of rifle, day or night, and invite their friends and family over to the party to slaughter this public resource with out even the purchase of a hunting license.

Yep, I've got a problem with that.

I hunt.

 

[fireball168]

Thousands if not tens of thousands of racoons and ground hogs have been passed up, just like deer, because a land owner refuses hunting access to the people supporting him with tax payer subsidies.

So, what do you feel you are entitled to from other folks and industry that receive subsidies other than from agriculture?

 

[Mgderf]

So, what do you feel you are entitled to from other folks and industry that receive subsidies other than from agriculture?

+1rep'd for that!
The sense of entitlement these days is a disturbing trend.
Farmers refuse access to people who think they have some type of "right".
I work hard to build relations with landowners to try to gain access for hunting.
People that do not respect others property, make it harder for the rest of us.
I've traded construction services for hunting rights in the past, and would do so again.

 

[tenring]

Well, for the ones who seem to be so dead set against agriculture subsidies, start your vengeance here.

EWG || Farm Subsidy Database

 

[Stove]

Thousands if not tens of thousands of racoons and ground hogs have been passed up, just like deer, because a land owner refuses hunting access to the people supporting him with tax payer subsidies. There is post after post on this board and hundreds of other boards just like them with people looking for ground to hunt. There's no reason in the world for the government to pass out get out of jail free cards like they were royal lordship grants to slaughter the king's deer.

Hunters support management and game animal habitat programs financially, the crops are subsidise and prices of those crops artificially high due to government programs, even the purchase of farm land is subsidised with low interest farmer programs that are not available to any other taxpayers who may have been paying taxes last year but not reporting farm income in the previous year.

Land, crops, and animals are all supported by hunters and the taxpayer in general and then the tending farmer wants to shoot them out of season right after the young are born. They want to use any kind of rifle, day or night, and invite their friends and family over to the party to slaughter this public resource with out even the purchase of a hunting license.

Yep, I've got a problem with that.

I hunt.

I have a dep permit. I take no government payouts on specialty crops. I let people hunt my property. My first set of cantaloupe transplanted dear ate 1200 plus plants. I only had 1000 plants ready to be reset. This was done by hand, with myself and 2 employees. Hard to put an estimated amount of damage to green beans and sweet corn, when corn is in 5 acre plots, and beans a 1.5 acre plots. My prices are set by the market.

See this is an example of lumping all farmers into one group. Don't we all complain when we as gun owners are lumped in with someone who has committed a gun crime or acted foolishly with a firearm?


As for conventional farming, payouts are less(or none) when market price is up. The Chicago board of trade sets market price during trading, it is manipulated just like the crude market. For farmers it is weather reports, or acreage reports and then the market swings.

Cheaper money(lower rate loans) are available for farmers. Partly because a normal bank is not going to touch a lien on a farm, 80 acres at 8-10k an acre. Farming has to continue, and those loans are available to try and keep new farmers coming into the mix. I might argue that all of you non-farmers contributing to urban sprawl is forcing the price of property up so high that guys like me cannot even consider buying ground. Guys like me means, 33, college degree, 3rd gen farmer, and struggling. I cannot compete with these huge farmers, the ones that do take advantage of the system. They are huge, own lots of property, lots of equipment, and know how to work the system(which is being slowly changed to stop this).

My fear is that all farmers get lumped together. The farm program will change to remove some of these safeguards. Then what happens when we have a really bad year. The small ones fail, that can be absorbed. The big ones go and we are in trouble(think big 3 auto). Seed companies don't get there money, chemical companies don't get there money, land owners don't get cash rent, and so on. I am fortunate that I have a degree outside of ag to fall back on, others do not have that.

So I'll be waiting for my hand out. Till then, I'll be up a 4:30 working on my old broke down sprayer, planting more corn and beans, and just maybe I'll get a shot off at a dear that truly causes me lots of damage.

later

 

[Stove]

forgot to mention that I don't discriminate, I shoot groundhogs and raccoons also. When corn is ready they can wipe out a 50 yard by 50 yard area in one night.

 

[Jack Ryan]

So, what do you feel you are entitled to from other folks and industry that receive subsidies other than from agriculture?

The right to tell them to follow the same rules every one else does concerning a public resource.

What else do you feel you are entitled to other than a cut of every one in the country's pay check the last 50 years and exclusive rights to do as you please ahead of the rest of the hunting public with a public resource?

 

[JBob77]

The right to tell them to follow the same rules every one else does concerning a public resource.

What else do you feel you are entitled to other than a cut of every one in the country's pay check the last 50 years and exclusive rights to do as you please ahead of the rest of the hunting public with a public resource?

The problem with the public resource that you speak of, is damaging someone's private property. And On his private property, he could let anyone and his brother hunt there, and still have the RIGHT to refuse you because he didn't like the color of your truck. You will forgive me if I am misunderstood, I hope, but from your earlier posts, it doesn't seem as if you understand that. He has the right to allow or not allow anyone access to his land for any reason.

 

[fireball168]

The right to tell them to follow the same rules every one else does concerning a public resource.

Jack,

Based on your comments here, I've provided a few scenarios for your consideration.


There's a recent law school graduate down the street. He took out subsidized student loans.

I need a trust done. Since WE are subsidizing his interest rate - think he ought to do it for free?


That beautiful Getrag transmission building in Tipton is sitting uncompleted and empty.

It would make a great indoor range - I keep thinking of the warehouse in Texas those fellows did all the benchrest experimentation in. Since WE threw out all the tax abatements to get them to build it - think they ought to let us in? The backstop I've got planned really doesn't take up that much room, if I just had a 20' wide strip down one side - I'd be quite happy.


Last week I was at the grocery store, the bill came to $5 more than the cash I had in my wallet. The customer right beside me had their welfare debit card in their hand.

Since WE have been paying for their food, figure they should show the common courtesy to pick up a little of our grocery bills when we're a bit short every now and again?


Every now and again, I could use a little labor help. At least once I month, I'll get a call from someone wanting to use me as an unemployment "job contact" - not wanting a job, just a name for a "contact".

Since those that are working are paying into that fund, figure they should give me a couple of hours every now and again for the "common good"? I mean, isn't labor a public resource? What else are they doing with their time - clearly all of them are doing the same thing the bozo's that call me are doing?


I really like blackberry pie. One of my parents neighbors makes the best blackberry pie I've ever tasted. She lives entirely off of Social Security, and a coal miners pension that had to be absorbed by the government.

Since she couldn't live without the money that's being paid by US to support her, I want a pie every now and again. What else could she possibly be doing with her time? I deserve a pie - any resource that can make something that good, ought to be available to the public.


Last year was a pretty rough year for a lot of folks with hobby farms. Many didn't, or couldn't pay the going rate for their livestock. Already this year, the weather has prevented a lot of hay production. Right next door to your hobby farm is a REAL FARMER'S hay field that has alfalfa getting pretty weedy, and is better than 3' tall.

Since it's an eyesore, and your horses really wouldn't eat that much, its getting stemmy anyway - and you KNOW that greedy farmer driving that 10 year old pickup, 40 year old tractor with a 25 year old mower/conditioner is making money hand over fist. I mean, he received over $2500 in the last 10 years from the government. He's too damn cheap to buy a new baler, so he even has to hire it done! Probably just another way of screwing the taxpayer. So what the hell, string a couple lines of high tensile and let the horses at it.


I'm taking a vacation later this month. I really hate paying $2.68 a gallon for gas. Another neighbor right down the road bought this cute little hybrid. He gets 48 MPG. He received a tax credit of $1500 for purchasing it.

I'm only driving about 800 miles, and want to drive that car. It would save about $60 in fuel. Since WE helped pay for that subsidy to build the "green car" business for the manufacturer's that chose to participate - think you're entitled to use it every now and again?





Over the last few years, I've started something new with the folks that call for permission to hunt or fish.

I give them a date where I'll be cleaning a fence row, moving some fallen trees, or cleaning out the creek. I give them a start time and a finish time for their "interview". Its generally 2-3 hours.

I haven't had one show up yet.

Oddly enough, I've run several off in this same time frame. Especially the fishermen(women). Every one of them has said - "That water and those fish are a public resource". Never mind its fairly deep onto private property, dredged/opened/deepened and maintained with my labor at my expense, and stocked at my expense.

But hey, they DESERVE IT for paying taxes.