New 1911 Check it out !!

[Kmann]

Very nice pistol, reminds me of my grandfather's WWI .45

 

[IndianasFinest]

I will certainly do that tonight after work. Another thing I wanted to mention was after feild stripping it last night the the greenish/brown color is also present under the slide, and into the frame ? I was reading over at the Colt forum of another WWI pistol that had "plummed" in color as well. It looked similar to mine, but not exact.

 

[OD*]

They could turn colors, that is true, we have no way of knowing what all chemicals were used on this old girl.

 

[Clay]

How can you tell there not original ? They appear to be correct when looking at other WWI 1911's ?

oh hell, I was thinking WWII!!!!!!!!!! sorry about that!

 

[riverman67]

I would leave that finish as is, It looks perfect to me

 

[RobbLG]

It has the finish of a battle hardened veteran...

 

[BE Mike]

As you already said, the front and rear sights are replacements, as well as, the hammer. Since this is a 1911 and not a 1911a1, I'd say that the original finish was blue. It may have been polished. The brown patina is from a lot of years of use. It would be a shame to change the gun (even going back to the original sights and hammer) as it's provenance is from the Viet Nam era and should be recorded. Try to find out the particulars of it's former owner who served in Viet Nam. There is a good chance that this old war horse served in WWI, WWII, and Korea, but you'll probably never know. If it could only talk.

 

[OD*]

My biggest question is in regards to the finish since I am not exactly sure what it is or was for that matter ??

Here is an excellent article by the late Bill Adair, who was one of, if not the best restoration expert in the country.

When to Restore (and when not to)​

Deciding when (or why) to restore a firearm is not as complicated a matter as would be indicated by the millions of words written on the subject. "RESTORING AN ANTIQUE WILL DESTROY ITS VALUE" is the phrase most often heard; but, what if its value has already been destroyed by a previous refinishing done badly by one of the great many hacks out there (especially true in the 50's and 60's), or what if it's a pitted, rusty, brown or grey gun with numerous other problems?
Basically, if a gun is not a "collector-grade" specimen, meaning that it has less original finish than what the collector is looking for (say less than 80% as a general guide), then its collector value cannot be considered in the decision to restore or not. The exceptions are: (a) a gun with some documented historical provenance or (b) a gun of great rarity, both of which are factors that outweigh amount of finish or condition as collector-criteria.
So, if a gun is in the less-than-80%/no-provenance category, it has a value to the "accumulator" (most of us), but no real "collector" value.
Probably 95% of the guns coming into my shop are non-collector guns with little or no original finish, are often abused, pitted, gouged, dinged, prevously-overbuffed, hot-blued, cold-blued semi-wrecks in the less-than-10% category. Restoring these "bad-guns" and making them into "good guns" is what it's all about. It's either that, or let the effects of abuse and negligence eat them away until they're gone forever.
I frequently advise my customers not to "mess" with a particular gun if it happens to fall within the collector-grade range. On the other hand, if a collector-grade gun has something wrong with it, which is correctable, but which hurts the value if left uncorrected, I'll often do a partial restoration to fix that one problem.
As an example, I recently had a would-be collector-grade Colt single-action where the front sight had been filed down to nothing, and the barrel had been hit a few times in the filing process. I made a new front sight of proper shape and height, polished out the file marks and re-blued the barrel using the original nitre-blue, then "aged" it back just a little to match the rest of the gun. Could you tell? No. Did it hurt the value of the gun? No. Did it increase the value? Yes.
Flayderman has written: "Refinishing is akin to taking an 80-year-old man and dressing him in the clothes of a teenager". I couldn't disagree more if we're talking about non-collector-grade guns. It's more like taking a naked 80-year-old man and dressing him in a nice suit (even though it may not be a new-looking suit). Which would you rather look at?
What needs to be remembered is that there is a world of difference between "refinishing" and "restoration". the term "refinishing" could mean hot-bluing a single-action (where hot-blue wasn't invented till about 1937). But "restoration" means doing things right. It means doing it precisely like it was done 80 or 150 years ago by the factory. It means polishing in the exact way the factory did it, and finishing the exact way the factory did it.
There are only a handful of restoration-gunsmiths in the world who can do that... or who will do that. To that handful you can entrust your antique arms.

 

[OD*]

Since this is a 1911 and not a 1911a1, I'd say that the original finish was blue.

It was blue, but they looked black;

Colt serial #400,000 to end of WWI: Very coarse blued finish causes pistols to almost appear black. These pistols are referred to as the "Black Colt" or "Black Armys". This was due to changes implemented to speed production and reduce cost. Among those was the elimination of the fine polishing step.

This one looks as though it may have been Parkerized at some point in it's career.

 

[OD*]

I will certainly do that tonight after work. Another thing I wanted to mention was after feild stripping it last night the the greenish/brown color is also present under the slide, and into the frame ? I was reading over at the Colt forum of another WWI pistol that had "plummed" in color as well. It looked similar to mine, but not exact.

Have you had the stocks off the pistol, does it have the "heart" shaped cutout on the receiver?

 

[IndianasFinest]

I have had them off, but can't recall if it looks like the one in your photo, but I will check tonight. What is the signifigance of the heart shaped frame ?

 

[OD*]

It was just another step left out of the manufacturing process to save time and speed up production that appeared in late 1918.

 

[IndianasFinest]

It does have the heart shape under the grips. I also was able to ID the barrel as a High Standard I am taking it to a knowledgeable smith friend of mine tomorrow to take a look at it. Looks like a few things have been changed over the last 93 years, and it's not a collector grade piece, but on the other hand I enjoy shooting what I own, and do not look at myself as a "Collector" anyway. I took it out this evening for a function check after another close inspection for any cracks, and it killed a few beer cans just fine The gentleman I bought it from is the one who swapped the hammer because of the hammer bite issues, and is currently looking for the original one so that is a plus. I am still debating on having it refinished to it's original glory or leaving it as is. I think the pistol is worth what I paid for it, and not much more so I don't think I would be hurting the value of it anymore then it has already endured, what do you guys think ?

 

[seamus]

Thanks for showing it off to us.

 

[E5RANGER375]

It does have the heart shape under the grips. I also was able to ID the barrel as a High Standard I am taking it to a knowledgeable smith friend of mine tomorrow to take a look at it. Looks like a few things have been changed over the last 93 years, and it's not a collector grade piece, but on the other hand I enjoy shooting what I own, and do not look at myself as a "Collector" anyway. I took it out this evening for a function check after another close inspection for any cracks, and it killed a few beer cans just fine The gentleman I bought it from is the one who swapped the hammer because of the hammer bite issues, and is currently looking for the original one so that is a plus. I am still debating on having it refinished to it's original glory or leaving it as is. I think the pistol is worth what I paid for it, and not much more so I don't think I would be hurting the value of it anymore then it has already endured, what do you guys think ?

i still think it will hurt the $$ value if you refinish it, and also it will hurt the historic value. I dont know what you paid so i cant say a lot.

maybe sell it to a person who is a collector and buy you one with the finish you want just an idea. not my gun. you have every right to do anything you want to it and no one else can say **** to you. just trying to offer opinions

 

[irishfan]

I would NEVER refinish an old pistol like the one you have. You may be better served by selling it to a collector and buying a Colt replica pistol or something else that suits your wants.

 

[down3green]

I am still debating on having it refinished - what do you guys think ?

.

Leave it alone.


.

 

[IndianasFinest]

I have other 1911's so that isn't an issue, but I really don't think this pistol is worth much more then the $400 I paid for it. If it was all original I certainly would leave it be, but it's not. The value of this piece has already been affected from the previous repairs, replacement parts, etc. I am taking it tomorrow to someone who knows much more about it then I do, and I am going to make a decision from there. Getting rid of this pistol is not an option as I promised the original owner it would be in my possession until it gets passed down to my Son.

 

[Clay]

Ill give you what you paid for it or more if you dont want to leave it alone!! If it were mine it would stay just how it is.

 

[OD*]

I have other 1911's so that isn't an issue, but I really don't think this pistol is worth much more then the $400 I paid for it. If it was all original I certainly would leave it be, but it's not. The value of this piece has already been affected from the previous repairs, replacement parts, etc. I am taking it tomorrow to someone who knows much more about it then I do, and I am going to make a decision from there. Getting rid of this pistol is not an option as I promised the original owner it would be in my possession until it gets passed down to my Son.

It won't devalue it anymore than it is by having a restoration done, the condition it's in currently, it's not a collectible M1911. With the Hi-Standard barrel, it well could have been arsenal reworked, not all of them were stamped as such, that could explain the greenish-gray hue the pistol has, it may have been Parkerized years ago. Something that should be remembered, buy the pistol, not the story, without documentation, it's all speculation.