My AR SBR Build-in-Progress

[Josh Ward]

I'd love to have you guys down!

I had two young fellows and their wives down yesterday to do some shooting and talk about firearms for personal protection.

We had been shooting the rifles off the deck and then the guys were shooting pistols in the yard (didn't want to take the time to move gear to the pistol range). I needed to start the ribs, so here's a picture of me cooking with ear pro on!

Ok, thats AWESOME !!!!

 

[HICKMAN]

Mmmm, Green Egg... I still need to get one of those.

 

[LuckyOne]

Okay. I was going to comment on the SBR and personel defense...but dang that food looks delicious. Today was a great day for grilling on the deck. Though my 12 yr old told me that she wishes she was able to shoot today.

 

[lovemachine]

One test this light will need to pass has to do with placement. I like having the switch at 12o'clock. In conjunction with an AFG and c-clamp grip this makes activation very intuitive. While shooting in daylight the side of the WML has a nice shelf that acts as an index for my support-side thumb. When things go dark I only need to move my thumb up onto the switch.

But this very forward position does put the light lens close to the muzzle device. Close enough to become a carbon collector? I plan to find out with some live fire in the next week or so.

Thought of you when I ran into this article by Mike Seeklander.

JP - Tech Tips

 

[esrice]

Thought of you when I ran into this article by Mike Seeklander.

JP - Tech Tips

Good article with some good takeaways!

 

[esrice]

UPDATE

So yesterday was my first time shooting Project Iron Widow with the new HSP Inforce WML mounted in the 12 o'clock position.

Prior to shooting I applied a thin layer of Vaseline to the lens. This is often recommended as a way to keep your lens from scratching or pitting from carbon buildup. The carbon will stick to the Vaseline and can then more easily be removed. This does not affect the light output and is not overly messy.

The range trip was focused on long-range shooting so it didn't get much of a workout-- only about 50 rounds. In that time I noticed zero fouling on the lens. We had very strong (and cold) winds so that could've played a factor. More testing is needed.

I have yet to clean this rifle and yesterday I experienced my first issue. Attempting to chamber a round the bolt would not seat fully. I removed the BCG, applied a few drops of lube, cycled the action vigorously, and it returned to normal function. I had shot the rifle successfully earlier in the day.

I believe these factors contributed to the issue:

• The rifle was outside in the freezing cold for several hours prior to the issue.
• The BCG was noticeably dry and dirty.
• Just prior to the issue I had another upper mounted to the lower-- a 7.5" Noveske Diplomat with Huntertown Arms Kestrel 5.56 suppressor. It was blowing junk all over the shiny ammo in the magazine.

In it's normal configuration I was hitting 12" square steel targets at 200 and 250 yards.


Just for fun I tried it at 730 yards. With 30 rounds of M855 I was unsuccessful. But my spotter did say that with one round I was only about 2" off. I'll have to try again next time.


If you want to see the entire range report with all the pictures and videos check this out: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...t_to_730_yards_with_42769vette_pics_vids.html

 

[esrice]

UPDATE

So I finally had some more time with the HSP Inforce WML. I was at lovemywoods' visiting with the family so it wasn't much, but we did take 20 minutes to go shoot in the dark.

The setup was simple with me engaging a piece of AR500 at short range. In total I shot about 60 rounds of Wolf. The video is obviously very dark but you get the idea. If you listen closely you can actually hear the frogs in the distance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot7JOHgRjlk

Activating the light seemed very natural. I felt like I could maintain solid contact with the angled momentary-only button.

Light output (rated at 200 lumens) was not the same as the 200 lumens from my Surefire LX2 handheld. My Surefire has the TIR lens and is a "thrower", whereas the Inforce has a much broader and more diffuse output. Putting them side-by-side I could tell a significant difference in their ability to ID targets at distance. Shining at a target 30 yards away across the lake the Surefire was like a laser beam that defined every detail of the target, while the Inforce simply lit it up with no real discernible beam pattern. If my "mission" required longer engagements I would want something with more "throw" than the Inforce. Out to ~50 yards it would be fine for IDing, but you quickly lose detail.

For me and my needs as a close-range instrument the Inforce WML works just fine. Indoors the broader spill is nice. It's quick to light up an entire area without throwing my eyes out of whack.

As I mentioned in my last update I still had the thin layer of Vaseline on the light lens. After the 50 rounds a few weeks ago, and the 60 rounds of Wolf from this trip, here is what the lens looked like.

As you can see it did get some carbon build-up, but not as much as I was expecting given the light placement and its proximity to the Battlecomp. Light transmission didn't appear diminished while shooting.

Using a Q-tip the carbon/Vaseline mixture came right off the lens with zero damage to the lens itself.

So overall I'm impressed with the HSP Inforce WML. Given its light weight, small footprint, momentary switchology, and low price ($109), I think its a real winner and will suit my needs just fine.

Now let's talk triggers.

While shooting at 42769vette's farm a few weeks ago I got to try his new precision AR build that included a Geissele Hi-Speed DMR 2-stage trigger. This was my first experience with a Geissele trigger and I was immediately impressed.

But so was lovemywoods. So much so, in fact, that he bought his own Geissele Hi-Speed DMR 2-stage trigger for his Colt AR. Now I'm in love (lust?).

I did a brief comparison, shooting his newly trigger-ized AR next to my Sister's Colt LE6920 with standard milspec trigger.

O M G

There really is no comparison. The Geissele trigger felt so solid and well engineered, yet silky smooth and predicable, that the milspec trigger in the 6920 felt like it was made of wrought iron and filled with sand and bits of broken glass. I had no idea what I had been missing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLhywwQMFUA

For lovemywoods' purposes that particular model is perfect. But I would want something a bit different. I do like the 2-stages in that the lighter second stage can help with precision shots, while simply pulling all the way through the arc quickly still results in a smooth clean break. But I don't care for the adjustability features of the DMR. I also think I want to try a flat trigger.

So that leads me to the Geissele Super Dynamic Combat.

Super Dynamic Combat

I think this will be the next piece added to Project Iron Widow. And I'll definitely be ordering it through INGO Advertiser A&A Optics.

Hopefully as the weather continues to improve I'll get more time behind the SBR. More updates to come!

 

[Faine]

I was looking at the Geissele SD-E you'll have to give a heads up on how the SD-C works out for you. Also, do you think it might be possible you lost some throw on your light from the vaseline diffusing and redirecting the light? I'm sue it wasn't a ton at 200lu but I would think it would be noticeable. Thoughts?

and just to throw it out there my phone doesn't like the word vaseline and wants to replace it with vasectomy....

 

[esrice]

Also, do you think it might be possible you lost some throw on your light from the vaseline diffusing and redirecting the light? I'm sue it wasn't a ton at 200lu but I would think it would be noticeable. Thoughts?

The layer of Vaseline is so thin that I didn't notice any degradation at all when compared to the clean lens with no Vaseline. I suppose any loss would be more noticeable at distance however. I'll have to try it both ways at distance next time.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

+1 for the SDC, I have it in my Recce and after shooting mil-specs and a few two stage triggers, this is the best I have pulled.

 

[mammynun]

Don't overlook the SSA and/or the SSA-E, I have 3 SSA-E's now so I can relate to your epiphany! For those that haven't seen this:
http://geissele.com/pdfs/TriggerSummarySheet.pdf

 

[Hop]

I went back and forth between the SDC & SDE and that little bit of creep made me settle on the no creep at all but almost too light of a pull SDE.

 

[magic man]

UPDATE


For lovemywoods' purposes that particular model is perfect. But I would want something a bit different. I do like the 2-stages in that the lighter second stage can help with precision shots, while simply pulling all the way through the arc quickly still results in a smooth clean break. But I don't care for the adjustability features of the DMR. I also think I want to try a flat trigger.

So that leads me to the Geissele Super Dynamic Combat.

Super Dynamic Combat

I think this will be the next piece added to Project Iron Widow. And I'll definitely be ordering it through INGO Advertiser A&A Optics.

Hopefully as the weather continues to improve I'll get more time behind the SBR. More updates to come!

I have the SD-C in my 5.56 AR and I love it. I'm going to pick one up for my 9mm AR one of these days.

 

[esrice]

So that leads me to the Geissele Super Dynamic Combat.

Super Dynamic Combat

I think this will be the next piece added to Project Iron Widow. And I'll definitely be ordering it through INGO Advertiser A&A Optics.

Trigger has been ordered! With, of course, the help of Alan @ A&A Optics.

 

[lovemywoods]

Trigger has been ordered! With, of course, the help of Alan @ A&A Optics.

Always glad to help you spend your money! (You've done it to so many of us.)

 

[OneBadV8]

Always glad to help you spend your money! (You've done it to so many of us.)

 

[esrice]

UPDATE

Geissele Super Dynamic Combat has been installed and test fired!

The trigger arrived while I was out of town on Spring Break, but as soon as I was home I headed down to lovemywoods'.

Everything was packaged in a soft-sided envelope and it included a hat, 2 stickers, and a small patch. I'm a sucker for swag.

The provided instructions were clear and straight forward.

First we removed the grip, the safety selector, the BAD lever, KNS anti-rotation pins, and then eventually the Spike's Tactical BattleTrigger.

Then we installed the Geissele SD-C. I chose to utilize the included Geissele pins rather than re-install the KNS pins. Everything went back together without incident and it passed a function check.

Then it was onto the back porch for a live-fire test.

*(sorry about the sound quality on the videos-- I used a different camera and the mic was terrible)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCeuu2xILF8[/ame]

The trigger ran great!

So we headed down to the pistol range to speed things up a bit. Testing wasn't scientific, but consisted of me engaging various steel targets at varying speeds. Even though the SD-C is a 2-stage trigger I was simply pulling through both stages as if it were a single-stage trigger.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=059PQ1egmhs[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bssE8oc70TM[/ame]

lovemywoods took care of the accuracy testing utilizing both stages by hitting an IPSC steel at 213 yards going magazine monopod prone.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKVbhWlr2g0[/ame]

After just a few hours and a few hundred rounds here are my initial impressions of the trigger upgrade, in no particular order.

• I like the 2-stage trigger. Being able to cut the overall pull weight down does help in making precision shots. But speed isn't compromised when simply pulling through both stages quickly. It must be some kind of magic, because I didn't even notice two distinct stages when shooting fast.
• Initially after installing the trigger I thought it seemed much heavier than the advertised 4.5lb. combined pull weight. It was very smooth, mind you, but seemed like it took significant pressure to move it rearward. However, after actually shouldering the rifle and shooting it I think that 4.5lbs. is perfect. It doesn't feel like anything close to a "hair trigger", but working it is incredibly smooth, grit-less, and consistent (no stacking).
• The flat trigger is VERY interesting. Length-of-pull is slightly longer due to the absence of a rearward curve in the trigger face, but there is a noticeable increase in trigger-finger sensitivity. There is also more accessible trigger face at the bottom to get more leverage for precision shots.
• I shoot WAY more with this trigger. It's just as easy to shoot 2 or 3 rounds instead of 1 so I find the bottom of magazines quicker.
• Trigger reset is almost back to the beginning of stage 1.
• In overall "feel" the SD-C really shines. It's though to describe in words, but it simply feels more "substantial" than a standard milspec trigger.
• Are all of these perceived benefits worth the $230 price tag? Dunno. I'll need more time with it. For the precision shooter I'd say absolutely, but for us short-range shooters I'm not sure the gain is as great. It is certainly a faster trigger, but I'm not yet convinced that it's $170 faster than the old Spike's BattleTrigger. I will continue to evaluate the value aspect as I get more time on the trigger.
• For Project Iron Widow I wanted the highest-quality components, and this trigger definitely fits that definition.

lovemywoods caught my initial impressions on camera, but I'm not sure how well the audio will translate.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi4hEm0UG9s[/ame]


On an semi-related note, lovemywoods finally convinced me to allow him to clean the SBR. I've never cleaned it, only lubed it, and it has run like a top. But the action was getting increasingly gritty and I could see it bothering him. It had a couple thousand rounds through it, and it was dirty, but not terrible. I've certainly seen worse. But a big thanks to lovemywoods nonetheless.

Next I'd like to compare the SD-C to CMC's flat-trigger that phylodog is such a fan of.

 

[jblomenberg16]

UPDATE

Geissele Super Dynamic Combat has been installed and test fired!

The trigger arrived while I was out of town on Spring Break, but as soon as I was home I headed down to lovemywoods'.

Everything was packaged in a soft-sided envelope and it included a hat, 2 stickers, and a small patch. I'm a sucker for swag.



The provided instructions were clear and straight forward.



First we removed the grip, the safety selector, the BAD lever, KNS anti-rotation pins, and then eventually the Spike's Tactical BattleTrigger.



Then we installed the Geissele SD-C. I chose to utilize the included Geissele pins rather than re-install the KNS pins. Everything went back together without incident and it passed a function check.



Then it was onto the back porch for a live-fire test.

*(sorry about the sound quality on the videos-- I used a different camera and the mic was terrible)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCeuu2xILF8

The trigger ran great!

So we headed down to the pistol range to speed things up a bit. Testing wasn't scientific, but consisted of me engaging various steel targets at varying speeds. Even though the SD-C is a 2-stage trigger I was simply pulling through both stages as if it were a single-stage trigger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=059PQ1egmhs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bssE8oc70TM

lovemywoods took care of the accuracy testing utilizing both stages by hitting an IPSC steel at 213 yards going magazine monopod prone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKVbhWlr2g0

After just a few hours and a few hundred rounds here are my initial impressions of the trigger upgrade, in no particular order.

• I like the 2-stage trigger. Being able to cut the overall pull weight down does help in making precision shots. But speed isn't compromised when simply pulling through both stages quickly. It must be some kind of magic, because I didn't even notice two distinct stages when shooting fast.
• Initially after installing the trigger I thought it seemed much heavier than the advertised 4.5lb. combined pull weight. It was very smooth, mind you, but seemed like it took significant pressure to move it rearward. However, after actually shouldering the rifle and shooting it I think that 4.5lbs. is perfect. It doesn't feel like anything close to a "hair trigger", but working it is incredibly smooth, grit-less, and consistent (no stacking).
• The flat trigger is VERY interesting. Length-of-pull is slightly longer due to the absence of a rearward curve in the trigger face, but there is a noticeable increase in trigger-finger sensitivity. There is also more accessible trigger face at the bottom to get more leverage for precision shots.
• I shoot WAY more with this trigger. It's just as easy to shoot 2 or 3 rounds instead of 1 so I find the bottom of magazines quicker.
• Trigger reset is almost back to the beginning of stage 1.
• In overall "feel" the SD-C really shines. It's though to describe in words, but it simply feels more "substantial" than a standard milspec trigger.
• Are all of these perceived benefits worth the $230 price tag? Dunno. I'll need more time with it. For the precision shooter I'd say absolutely, but for us short-range shooters I'm not sure the gain is as great. It is certainly a faster trigger, but I'm not yet convinced that it's $170 faster than the old Spike's BattleTrigger. I will continue to evaluate the value aspect as I get more time on the trigger.
• For Project Iron Widow I wanted the highest-quality components, and this trigger definitely fits that definition.

lovemywoods caught my initial impressions on camera, but I'm not sure how well the audio will translate.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi4hEm0UG9s


On an semi-related note, lovemywoods finally convinced me to allow him to clean the SBR. I've never cleaned it, only lubed it, and it has run like a top. But the action was getting increasingly gritty and I could see it bothering him. It had a couple thousand rounds through it, and it was dirty, but not terrible. I've certainly seen worse. But a big thanks to lovemywoods nonetheless.

Next I'd like to compare the SD-C to CMC's flat-trigger that phylodog is such a fan of.

Great review as always! How positive is the reset? Is there an audible "click" and/or a positive feel of the hammer & first stage engaging, or more that it stops moving forward?



P.S.
Are you sure Lovemywoods wasn't just looking for an excuse to huff the fumes from some Hoppes and WD-40?

 

[esrice]

How positive is the reset? Is there an audible "click" and/or a positive feel of the hammer & first stage engaging, or more that it stops moving forward?

There is an audible and tactile reset.

My Spike's BattleTrigger is the "clicky-est" trigger I've ever shot, and the reset on that thing was super loud and you could really feel it. It was like clicking a retractable pen. The SD-C, in comparison, is less harsh, but still noticeable.

 

[phylodog]

Next I'd like to compare the SD-C to CMC's flat-trigger that phylodog is such a fan of.

That's gonna be hard to do. There are woods, water, a BGE and nice people down there. All the things I'm uncomfortable around.