MWAG (Man With a Gun) 911 call

[Vanguard.45]

No one's asking for applause.

I was asking for some civility and to not be attacked personally or professionally for expressing an opinion.

Have you heard me attack anyone on a personal or professional level? Have I attacked anyone else's opinions? No.

This thread is directly addressing some of the complications arising from the decision to carry openly. You can freely decide to carry how you will (and no, I am not patronizing you or giving you some sort of permission to do so as I am happy to be living in a free state and country and we are all grown-up around here I would hope), but we should all be aware that choices can have consequences, and I would hate to hear of one of our forum members getting into a bad situation simply because they might not have considered the possibility of something this assinine (or worse) actually occurring.

Sorry for any trouble I've caused by expressing my opinions or for calling a cheap shot what it was, but I don't appreciate myself or my profession being attacked. We get enough bad press from the thugs and criminals we lock up so you don't have to deal with them.

Vanguard.45

 

[PatriotPride]

Can't we all just get along? I carry in Michigan a fair amount and have never had an issue. Being that it is another state I CC about 80% of the time though. The people of Grand Rapids don't seem to have many issues with it, but as we all know, there are rotten apples in every bunch.

 

[iamaclone45]

It's the internet.. There are people that aren't going to agree with you. There are going to be posts/people that may seem like they are personally attacking you. There may be posts/people you don't agree with.

It's ok to voice your opinion. Just be ready to take some flack from someone and don't let it get you down. It's just text on an imaginary piece of paper we call forums.

 

[jsgolfman]

"I guess I liken people with the NEED to carry open and the NEED to flaunt their guns to the sheep with the Gay Pride Parades where people FLAUNT their homosexuality. Yes, they have the RIGHT to flaunt it, but most "normal" and less flamboyant gays seem to resent the display."

I think most who OC would consider this an attack.

 

[Vanguard.45]

No worries

My big girl panties are not in a wad.

Enjoying the interaction, but don't want to get personal in the process.

An armed society should, above all, be a polite society (or so they say).

Vanguard.45

 

[PatriotPride]

"I guess I liken people with the NEED to carry open and the NEED to flaunt their guns to the sheep with the Gay Pride Parades where people FLAUNT their homosexuality. Yes, they have the RIGHT to flaunt it, but most "normal" and less flamboyant gays seem to resent the display."

I think most who OC would consider this an attack.

No, I don't think he meant this as an attack. IMO, he was simply stating the difference between people who flaunt things, such as sexuality or firearms, and people who tend to be more reserved. We have the right to OC, but the manner in which we do so makes all the difference. I once saw an INGO member post something to the effect of "it's taken 50 years to have people react to guns as they do now and it will take 50 years to change the perspective". Wise words. Let's all just hug it out. As has been pointed out, we are all just mutilating a dead horse.

 

[Vanguard.45]

I am all in favor of OC if that's your decision!

What I am against is people who flaunt their gun irresponsibly. I have encountered people in my life who would carry openly in places where they realized that a gun on display would cause some other people in the room some discomfort or stress. I realize that the problem lies with the sheeple, but sometimes we must be considerate of our environment and recognize that some people will never be comfortable with guns and maybe we can be the ones who take the initiative to defuse the issue by covering up. To just say "I don't give a crap what other people think" is probably not the way to go through life, although I guess it is your right.

Open carry is fine with me, but it is just not my personal choice for a variety of reasons.

It is not open carry, but the NEED to have a gun on display no matter what that seems a bit odd to me (not that anyone here necessarily suffers from this need, but we have all seen the newbies who want EVERYONE to know they're now carrying whether prudent or not).

That's all I was saying with my slightly non-PC comparison to Gay Pride Parades. Sorry if anyone felt it was an attack on their decision to openly carry.

Be well, everyone, and thanks for the discussion.

Vanguard.45

 

[Vanguard.45]

PatriotPride

I (obviously) could not have said it any better than you. "Obviously" because I have apparently been stepping on my CRANK throughout this post without being able to put it as well as you did in a single post.

Thanks for that, and again, thanks to everyone in the discussion. It is good to share with and listen to others of a like mind (and even those with differing opinions).

It's great to live in a FREE state.

Good evening to you all.

Vanguard.45

 

[jsgolfman]

I guess I should have provided more info in my post. My thought process was that the majority of people in this forum are decidedly conservative and equating them to homosexuals is one sure way to provoke a lot of negative commentary. I was simply trying to point out that the statement could be construed as an attack.

 

[theturtle06]

One officer in that recording almost sounded perturbed and disappointed when he said "he's got it open on his leg under open carry law".

My guess is he's probably annoyed that he had to come out to check on what was never a problem.

 

[theturtle06]

I don't really understand why any of you guys are attacking Vanguard. He says that he feels you should be able to carry however you see fit, but he personally prefers to CC. He also supports his decision with articulate arguments and then you guys call him anti-gun?

Imagine if this guy had been going into a bank???

Sometimes we have to remember others are NOT comfortable with guns and overreact. You may have the RIGHT to carry openly, but it can possibly make your life MUCH more complicated in a hurry!

Vanguard.45

There it is. He states a simple fact and you guys jump all over him for it. OC can possibly cause you trouble that would have otherwise avoided.

snip
because when i see a citizen i dont have to wonder what alterior agenda they may have.

What exactly are you implying here? I don't disagree with what you are saying for the most part in your post but this stands out to me. What kind of ulterior motives are you talking about? A cop going on a shooting rampage? Or using his gun to push citizens around? I am just asking for clarification, nothing more, nothing less. No ulterior motives here

I don't know why you are being so hostile towards Vanguard, Protest. He is simply making HIS personal opinion known and encouraging discussion. Isn't that the whole point of a message board? It didn't get personal until you started attacking him. Just sayin'.

 

[kingnereli]

What I am against is people who flaunt their gun irresponsibly. I have encountered people in my life who would carry openly in places where they realized that a gun on display would cause some other people in the room some discomfort or stress. I realize that the problem lies with the sheeple, but sometimes we must be considerate of our environment and recognize that some people will never be comfortable with guns and maybe we can be the ones who take the initiative to defuse the issue by covering up. To just say "I don't give a crap what other people think" is probably not the way to go through life, although I guess it is your right.

Open carry is fine with me, but it is just not my personal choice for a variety of reasons.

It is not open carry, but the NEED to have a gun on display no matter what that seems a bit odd to me (not that anyone here necessarily suffers from this need, but we have all seen the newbies who want EVERYONE to know they're now carrying whether prudent or not).

That's all I was saying with my slightly non-PC comparison to Gay Pride Parades. Sorry if anyone felt it was an attack on their decision to openly carry.

Be well, everyone, and thanks for the discussion.

Vanguard.45

This is the silliest argument that comes up against OC. That is, it might offend someone so we shouldn't do it. You are assuming anyone has the right to not be offended. Gay, black, biker look, long hair, immodestly dressed, heavily tattooed are all things the could potentially offend someone out in the public view. Is your solution applicable here too?

"I realize that the problem lies with the sheeple, but sometimes we must be considerate of our environment and recognize that some people will never be comfortable with [STRIKE]guns[/STRIKE] (being gay, black, bikers, long haired, hoochy mamas, or heavily tattood) and maybe we can be the ones who take the initiative to defuse the issue by covering up."

I carry a gun in the open. That may offend someone. I go to church with my hair long enough to touch the collar of my shirt. That offends the old ladies. It is fitting to disregard both trivialities.

As for the OC will complicate your day argument you're not exactly banging a new drum here either. People who OC have contemplated the possibility of them loosing a few minutes of their day to some sheeptard who thinks a gun and no uniform means bad guy. However, it isn't a complication. First, because it is VERY rare. Secondly, because all it takes for us to normalize gun ownership/display is for repetition of those same sheep seeing us not do bad things. That's it. Over and over again.

When the crazy scared lady calls the police, sees them have an amiable conversation with me, shake my hand and tell me to have a nice day that is one less lady who will likely call the cops again and hopefully is becoming more comfortable with guns by degrees. For what it's worth for the years that I have been open carrying I have very few stories of people freaking out like this. I have even fewer stories that involve LEO's. I have only one story of police responding to a man with a gun call. Every one of these stories ended well.

 

[turnandshoot4]

This could have all been stopped by the dispatcher.

 

[Vanguard.45]

I agree with you, Kingnereli, that it is your right to OC

and I encourage you to do what you feel is right.

I am happy you carry and are a responsible gun owner.

Once again, I am not worried about offending anyone, just avoiding drama for me personally.

To respond to your analogies, would you find it appropriate to go to a typical job interview with tattoos on your face or with a "biker look" or being immodestly dressed? Would you encourage your children to do so? My guess is probably not.

Most people with those attributes (and I have nothing against any of them) tend to compartmentalize those parts of their lives (i.e. they put tattoos where they are not seen in work clothes, they dress differently at work than at home, they put on their leather clothes on weekends when they are going riding) and understand that propriety sometimes is necessary to get through and/ or be successful in this world. Not always, but often.

On the other hand, some people get tatted up and pierced all over their faces and wear extravagant clothing and choose not to have good hygiene and then wonder why they didn't get the promotion or didn't get the job. I am not saying people who OC have ANY of these traits, but it is sometimes similar in the NEED to stand out for some people. Some people NEED to have everyone know they are carrying a gun for some reason. Maybe it is just a statement for them about personal freedom (a freedom I support), but for others it may be some need to simply get noticed or draw attention to the fact that they are different or special. Either way, sometimes the sheeple may not care what your intent is, but rather call 911 in a panic and stir up the hornet's nest.

I guess alll I have been saying is choices have consequences, and like you said, maybe OC will have a positive effect if people see it enough. I hope it does have the effect you describe. It's a gamble either way. If everyone gambled the same way, Vegas would be a boring place.

My personal reasons for not carrying OC are my own, as I tend to work in places where guns are not the norm and people tend to freak out. A gun on my hip in these environments also immediately identifies me as law enforcement, and sometimes that, too, can be a bad thing.

I guess I just like a bit of discretion and always felt birthday presents should be surprises and not covered only in saran wrap.

It's just my way for me, and I respect everyone's decisions to do what they feel is right for them.

I thank you for being a supporter of the Second Amendment and for exercising your right to carry. We need more people like you in the world.

And I like your Colt Avatar, Kingnereli. I own a WWI Colt 1911 and wouldn't trade it for the world!

Vanguard.45

 

[Joe Williams]

and it is why I choose to carry concealed.

The gun carrier who had the cops called on him was a victim, but his victimhood could have been potentialy avoided by not drawing attention to himself (though unintentionally) and to the fact he was carrying a gun.
snip

And lots of rapes could potentially be avoided if women dressed like the Amish or wore a burkha, instead of drawing attention to themselves with good looking clothes. Reckon they should just cover up, to avoid "victimhood."

 

[Vanguard.45]

Yep, sometimes dressing more modestly avoids problems

Doesn't mean the rapist isn't responsible for his crime, it just means his attention MIGHT have been drawn to the victim due to their desire to dress in less than appropriate attire. I am not blaming the victim, but recognize that criminals often are cued by what they see (as are most people).

I think most of us would tend to encourage our daughters to dress modestly and not like Britney Spears. And it think it is because we recognize the potential problems they may encounter for not dressing modestly among their peers. Not to say they are not FREE to dress how they choose, but most parents recognize that modesty is a value to be prized.

I would say there are certain parts of the big city where you might not want to have your wife walking around in her $20,000 diamond necklace, her $15,000 diamond bracelet, and her $20,000 diamond ring (and you're rich). You might explain to her that such a display could bring unwanted attention. You would not be blaming your wife if you did get robbed after she chose to ignore your advice, but you might look back and say "Yeah, that probably wasn't a good idea." You probably wouldn't be getting lucky that night either after pointing this out to her, but it might make her think twice next time about making such a choice.

Please don't imply I am blaming the victims or people who choose to OC. I am not. I am simply offering advice to those who may want to avoid drama like the one illustrated by the original post.

Vanguard.45

 

[INGunGuy]

What a stupid ****ing *****, that worthless turd should have to pay for the police run for someone NOT breaking any laws. Sheesh, I cant stand stupid worthless ****sticks like her, I swear to gawd I cant......

Worthess *****

INGunGuy

 

[Jon Craig]

Doesn't mean the rapist isn't responsible for his crime, it just means his attention MIGHT have been drawn to the victim due to their desire to dress in less than appropriate attire.

Please tell me you did NOT just say that. Seriously. I don't even... know what to say.

 

[INGunGuy]

What a stupid ****ing *****, that worthless turd should have to pay for the police run for someone NOT breaking any laws. Sheesh, I cant stand stupid worthless ****sticks like her, I swear to gawd I cant......

Worthess *****

INGunGuy

Sorry for the rant.... I probably deserve a good flogging with a wet noodle....

INGunGuy

 

[Vanguard.45]

So you're saying rapists are not drawn to some of their victims due to what they see?

Please tell me YOU are not saying this.

I guess all rapists are blind.

Vanguard.45