Multiple dead in shootings at multiple mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand

[DoggyDaddy]

And here goes the little freedom they had left ...
I'm sure the military and police will also get rid of those evil guns and their high-cap mags (whatever that is).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47648549



I'm sure after the next car accident they will ban all cars.

Oh look, they invented a new acronym (MSSA).

 

[chipbennett]

While the Boston bombings and San Diego shooters were labeled 'Muslim Terrorist', the abortion clinic bombings & shootings, the mass shootings in schools & churches/synagogues/mosques weren't labeled as 'Christian Terrorists'...
Why do you think that is unless the country is deluding itself into believing these people with rotten brains weren't terrorists also?
And, are you deluding yourself into believing the same, or just believing the propaganda?

There's a reasonable, simple explanation for that. In the former case, such attacks are a regular occurrence, and a sufficient cohort of Muslims believe (to the extent of condoning, if not outright supporting) such acts to be sanctioned by religious doctrine for such belief to be considered as a mainstream (albeit a minority) belief. Most acts of Muslim terrorism are carried out within its various sects; the vast majority if victims of Muslim terrorism are Muslim.

The same is not true in the latter case. Such attacks are rare, and near-universally condemned by other Christians as being contrary to religious doctrine. And why would school mass shootings be labeled as religious terrorism of any type? Similarly, why would church/synagogue/mosque shootings be labeled as "Christian" terrorism?

Some people are predisposed to having drug problems, some people are predisposed to having metal breakdowns and believing that bombings & shootings are 'Justified' because of race or religion beliefs...
Some simply don't have the discipline/self control and/or education to separate the propaganda from reality.

This is the reality, and the common denominator, of almost all of these acts: they are simply evil and/or sociopathic people. They act not from rational, religious belief, but from irrational sociopathy and evil.

 

[chipbennett]

I agree with this. Hate is not a mental illness. Extremism is not a mental illness. ISIS fighters were of sound mind and body when they were throwing alleged homosexuals off rooftops and burning captives alive.

I disagree somewhat. I agree with the first part, but not the latter. Hate and extremism, in and of themselves, are not mental illness. But acting on them is evidence of mental illness.

Giving oneself over to allowing depravity to control one's faculties does not constitute being of sound mind. Hating and desiring to kill someone due to their sexual preference is evil. Carrying out that desire is depraved. Being of sound, rational mind means recognizing that murder is inherently wrong, and choosing not to act on such depraved instincts.

Every person who has ever lived has harbored some form of evil thought and inclination (though the vast majority aren't to the degree described above). The difference between sound mind and mental illness is the desire and ability to choose not to act on such inclination.

There is another type person: the sociopath, or one who lacks a moral compass (recognition of good vs evil / right vs wrong). Such a condition is also a form of mental illness. Such people (the dangerous ones who end up engaging in mass killings) indeed exhibit hate and extremism.

 

[chipbennett]

DD if you can find a link, I would recommend reading his manifesto if you want some insight into his mental state. I think it's worth the time. He does not seem like a madman in his recorded thoughts, just twisted

In my mind he comes from the Turner Diaries/Tim McVeigh part of the far right spectrum. I don't know if it's an artifact of the echo chamber they live in, but some of these people seem to believe that there are a vast number of like minded individuals primed and ready to go, that all they need is the proper spark. I wonder if only interacting with other true believers makes them think a far greater portion of the public is like them than is true in the realz

I don't get labeling people who are simply evil sociopaths as having a belief system that in any way conforms to the left-right political spectrum.

 

[chipbennett]

Welcome to my world but substitute ANY religion in place of Islam.

(EDIT: it's been a while. My implied-purple meter might be out of calibration.)

It's like you forgot (or ignore) what happened in the 20th century, when religious non-adherents (Hitler/axis of evil, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc.) killed over a hundred million people worldwide, primarily in the name of humanism.

The 95% of humanity at any given time who have religious views (based on some form of belief in God) have done a heck of a lot better at building and maintaining stable, just societies than have the other 5%, throughout history.

 

[chipbennett]

This is NOT an example of the ideologies of attacker and victim being reversed.

 

[KLB]

(EDIT: it's been a while. My implied-purple meter might be out of calibration.)

It's like you forgot (or ignore) what happened in the 20th century, when religious non-adherents (Hitler/axis of evil, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc.) killed over a hundred million people worldwide, primarily in the name of humanism.

The 95% of humanity at any given time who have religious views (based on some form of belief in God) have done a heck of a lot better at building and maintaining stable, just societies than have the other 5%, throughout history.

Out of curiosity, which God are you attributing to the Chinese?

 

[Ziggidy]

I think there is a major difference when we speak of muslims/islam and try to compare them to the likes of hitler, stalin, mao and the such. If I remember correctly most of these vicious leaders tried to subdue religion. When they killed millions, it was not in the name of a god but rather of an ethnic cleansing and evil power. Islam terrorism is in the name of allah (their god). Allahu akbar is many times shouted during these killings.

The intent of the killings are different. Even when evil, white metal disturbed individuals go on a rampage, rarely is the heinous action in the name of god (specific religion).

Does it make the acts any different, no; absolutely not.

Why isn't there any outcry about the 280 christians killed in Nigeria in last couple months by muslim terrorists? Why don't you see the world crying over this? All of a sudden it is headline news for days and days when inflections imposed on muslims (BTW, I'm ok with news reporting that) but when there is obvious christian persecution, we see little to none (I'm not ok with news not reporting that)?

What's different?

 

[JettaKnight]

Because it seems like the direction the conversation has been swaying... We've got a great thread over here:

Civil Religious Discussion: All Things Islam - INGunOwners

Note the word "civil" ... not sure this would fit over there.


While NZ's Fudds are happily signing away all their rights, we're arguing about religion.

 

[Ziggidy]

^^ excellent point; what now?

 

[Sylvain]

Note the word "civil" ... not sure this would fit over there.


While NZ's Fudds are happily signing away all their rights, we're arguing about religion.

I wonder if there will be any protests or if people will just give up on their rights and guns.

I read an article saying that guns could easilly get banned over there since there's nothing like the American NRA (it was presented as a good thing of course).

Guns are alredy registered in NZ, it should make confiscation easier as it's always the first step ... registering guns to know how many you have to take away.

 

[JettaKnight]

I wonder if there will be any protests or if people will just give up on their rights and guns.

I read an article saying that guns could easilly get banned over there since there's nothing like the American NRA (it was presented as a good thing of course).

Guns are alredy registered in NZ, it should make confiscation easier as it's always the first step ... registering guns to know how many you have to take away.

From listening to NPR's Morning Edition, it sounded like this is a slam dunk: Both political parties are on board, gun stores have already self-imposed the bans (a la Dicks), and the one interviewed gun owner doesn't think anyone should be allowed to own guns he doesn't want.

Now it's just a matter of coming up with the cash to buy the guns.

Anyone know of a NZ knife maker with some free time and cutting tools?

 

[printcraft]

From listening to NPR's Morning Edition, it sounded like this is a slam dunk: Both political parties are on board, gun stores have already self-imposed the bans (a la Dicks), and the one interviewed gun owner doesn't think anyone should be allowed to own guns he doesn't want.

Now it's just a matter of coming up with the cash to buy the guns.

Anyone know of a NZ knife maker with some free time and cutting tools?

They should take all the evil guns to Mt. Doom in Mordor and cast them back into the fiery chasm from whence they came.

 

[Sylvain]

From listening to NPR's Morning Edition, it sounded like this is a slam dunk: Both political parties are on board, gun stores have already self-imposed the bans (a la Dicks), and the one interviewed gun owner doesn't think anyone should be allowed to own guns he doesn't want.

Now it's just a matter of coming up with the cash to buy the guns.

Anyone know of a NZ knife maker with some free time and cutting tools?

I'm sure finding the money to buy the guns won't be a problem.
Some NZ folks already gave their expensive gun away for free.
I'm sure they can come up with crazy low prices like they do in the US with buy-back programs.
If the law is forcing you to sell your gun you can't argue on the price, either take $200 for your $1,000 rifle or go to jail.

 

[M67]

Now it's just a matter of coming up with the cash to buy the guns.

American gun owners buy back program.

Be a nice addition to the collection as a reminder piece

 

[JettaKnight]

American gun owners buy back program.

Be a nice addition to the collection as a reminder piece

IKR?

We need to get this going! Send over an INGO'er with a wad of cash and a shipping container...

 

[T.Lex]

INGO group buy.

I sure picked the wrong day to give up the firearm import/export business.

 

[Kutnupe14]

(EDIT: it's been a while. My implied-purple meter might be out of calibration.)

It's like you forgot (or ignore) what happened in the 20th century, when religious non-adherents (Hitler/axis of evil, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc.) killed over a hundred million people worldwide, primarily in the name of humanism.

The 95% of humanity at any given time who have religious views (based on some form of belief in God) have done a heck of a lot better at building and maintaining stable, just societies than have the other 5%, throughout history.

I'm not so sure there really is a difference. Humanism arguably is a type of religion, minus a named deity(s). Adherents to either, can be just as passionate, loony, and genocidal.

 

[jamil]

https://www.foxnews.com/world/new-z...le-semi-automatic-weapons-after-mosque-attack



NZ working on banning "military style semi automatic" weapons

Wow. Good thing for NZ men that the shooter didn't use his pecker in the attack. He did use his fingers though. Probably should ban those.

 

[JettaKnight]

An interesting article from NZ about the buyback.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/ch...-millions--here-is-how-the-australians-did-it