Mom Denied LTCH ????

[2ADMNLOVER]

So here's the deal , my mother was denied her lifetime license by the IMPD for failing to admit her full record .

She's now been denied by the ISP for being deemed "not a proper person" .

The reason she thinks she was denied is because she was arrested ONCE IN HER LIFE back in 1969 , spent a couple of hours locked up and forgot about .

Since it was a one time thing and she hasn't been in any trouble since she forgot about it and now has to appeal .

Any suggestions ?

 

[clt46910]

Depending on the reason. Something does not sound right if it was a misdemeanor. Been to long back.

 

[Hondo]

I had a friend who had a similar problem several years ago...he got a letter from the LEO where he had the problem explaining the circaumstances and since no formal charges or conviction was recorded he sent that along with the aplication and was approved.

 

[Bastispah]

even "a couple of hours in jail" is hard to forget.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

even "a couple of hours in jail" is hard to forget.

I should've been a little more clear in my post about her being "locked up" .

I guess she didn't actually have to go in a cell , she sat in the waiting room of whatever podunk department it was .

 

[alfahornet]

I am not familiar at all with the criteria for "lying or ommiting" information on an application for an LTCH. BUT I know that for most federal clearances or background checks if you leave this kind of information out (it sounds like an arrest to me) that is more than enough for them to deny you. It usually specifically states list ANY arrests even if you were never charged.

I hope your mom can find a way around it (have them reconsider the evidence) and obtain her license but I can see why they consider ommitting an arrest to be a problem (regardless of the nature of the arrest.)

 

[kludge]

Can she re-submit with full disclosure?

 

[inav8r]

Hrmm, looking at the pink copy of my application it only asks me to disclose "Have you ever been convicted of any misdemeanor or felony violation, including DUI?" - which to me means conviction - not an arrest.

It doesn't appear (at face value) that one would have to disclose an arrest that led to a dismissal or acquittal - however the Indiana Code (IC-35-47-2-3 (g)(5)) clearly states "been arrested for a Class A or Class B felony, or any other felony that was committed while armed with a deadly weapon or that involved the use of violence, if a court has found probable cause to believe that the person committed the offense charged."

IANAL

 

[Mad Man]

Having just completed the application last week, it does not ask whether a person has been arrested. It only asked if a person has been convicted. One would think that they would supply the reason for being turned down.

 

[Chuck26287]

So here's the deal , my mother was denied her lifetime license by the IMPD for failing to admit her full record .

She's now been denied by the ISP for being deemed "not a proper person" .

The reason she thinks she was denied is because she was arrested ONCE IN HER LIFE back in 1969 , spent a couple of hours locked up and forgot about .

Since it was a one time thing and she hasn't been in any trouble since she forgot about it and now has to appeal .

Any suggestions ?

The guideline to being a "Proper Person" are as follows:

What is the definition of a “proper person” to be licensed?
35-47-1-7 Sec. 7. "Proper person" means a person who:
(1) does not have a conviction for resisting law enforcement under IC 35-44-3-3
within five (5) years before the person applies for a license or permit under this chapter;
(2) does not have a conviction for a crime for which the person could have been
sentenced for more than one (1) year;
(3) does not have a conviction for a crime of domestic violence (as defined in
IC 35-41-1-6.3), unless a court has restored the person's right to possess a firearm
under IC 3-7-13-5;
(4) is not prohibited by a court order from possessing a handgun;
(5) does not have a record of being an alcohol or drug abuser as defined in this
chapter;
(6) does not have documented evidence which would give rise to a reasonable
belief that the person has a propensity for violent or emotionally unstable conduct;
(7) does not make a false statement of material fact on the person's application;
(8) does not have a conviction for any crime involving an inability to safely handle a​

handgun;

(9) does not have a conviction for violation of the provisions of this article within
five (5) years of the person's application; or
(10) does not have an adjudication as a delinquent child for an act that would be a
felony if committed by an adult, if the person applying for a license or permit under this​

chapter is less than twenty-three (23) years of age.


If she truly has no conviction for anything in her past, it sounds like IMPD might be claiming a violtion of item #7. I would start by confirming this. Positively identify the reason for being denied "Proper Person" status. By not providing info you were not asked to provide, you did not falsify an answer on the application. My Application For Handgun License, State Form 36991, does not have anywhere to provide information on any arrest unless I have answered YES to the question "Have you ever been convicted of ANY CRIMINAL violation including DUI?" If Yes, it asks for the charges (resonably presumed to be the charges which had the conviction).

You are required to truthfully answer the questions on the application, not provide a lifetime arrest record that was not asked for.

Was there any form specific to IMPD that she filled out to go with the state application? If so, the failure to disclose may have been on that form, depending on how questions may have been worded.

This is probably an incorrect denial of "Proper Person" status, or they found a little more than your mother remembers, and they suspect her of trying to hide it. It's not impossible for the situation to have been one where she was to go to court and failed to show, thinking it was all worked out. That would have probably been entered as an automatic conviction. Just ask for specifics her "Proper Person" denial and work from there.

 

[Agent 007]

.

 

[concrete dog]

well hope she checks into it and gets it fixed.good luck

 

[ocsdor]

It could be a case of mistaken identity or identity theft. All the more reason for your mother to find out why she was denied.

 

[Limpy88]

i would try to get ahold of someone at the ISP and sort it out.

anyone can forget anything. it is human nature to forget things that didnt matter. it may have affected that day. but for the past 40 YEARS it had no relivance. getting arrested is no big deal. getting covicted of a crime and going to jail is somthing to remeber. in larger citys you can get a arrested and release and never have a record. i've seen it.( they were all PI's though)

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

I guess the whole thing at the time, wasn't a big deal because it was a LEO she knew and cursed him .

He arrested her and made her sit in a waiting room until she calmed down , after that he drove her home .

Anyhow back to yesterday , she typed ISP an appeal letter explaining that it was an oversight instead of an intentional act and faxed it over to them .

We'll see how the appeal process works .

 

[inav8r]

I guess the whole thing at the time, wasn't a big deal because it was a LEO she knew and cursed him .

He arrested her and made her sit in a waiting room until she calmed down , after that he drove her home .

Again, if she was arrested but never convicted (i.e. the charges were dismissed) I don't see how she omitted anything from her application.

 

[22lr]

You have to be convicted for something to show. Arrest record means nothing, convictions do.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

You have to be convicted for something to show. Arrest record means nothing, convictions do.

I guess it depends on what criteria their using today .

The letter she got from IMPD said she was denied for not fully admitting to her arrest record . When she called them to ask about it she was told that she didn't admit to being arrested back in 69 .

The letter she got from ISP said she was denied for being deemed "not a proper person to be licensed " for making a false statement on her application .

Considering the article the Star had a couple of weeks ago about real criminals getting licenses , I think the whole affair is a ridiculous , massive pile of on their part .

Especially when taken into consideration that in the past 35 years I've known her , the only trouble with the law I've known her to have was a seat belt ticket about 15 or so years ago .

 

[J4Me]

Sounds kinda fishy to me. I would hope that things could be cleared up with a re-submit.

 

[EdC]

I took a look at the state application form, and nowhere does it ask whether or not the applicant has ever been arrested, just convicted of any crime. However, as I recall, I had to fill out some paperwork for my local PD in addition to the state application. Is that where your mom omitted the arrest?