Mike Pence Should Step Down.

[buckwacker]

I think he thinks that Pence is being honest with him when he says he is surprised with the backlash.

Even though the Governor of the State of Indiana surrounded himself with very well known hate groups while signing the legislation.

A rube. Just like Pence.

Why are you so hateful?

 

[PaulF]

Hi, mod here.

Please double check our forum rules (linked at the bottom of this post), review this thread, and think carefully before you post.

Breaking our rules will get you banned. No additional warnings will be issued.

Many thanks,

The INGO mod staff.

 

[MisterChester]

Not Ted Cruz. He'd probably hug him and swap some spit.

Who knew social statism tasted like chicken?

 

[level.eleven]

Actually , the ones I feel sorriest for are the nuns and monks and the jewish guy who were used as cover for the Miller contingent.

I don't.

They can read. They knew what they were doing. Franciscans none the less. So yeah, they knew what was what.

 

[other dave]

IBTL or IBTQ

 

[Boost Lee]

I can't wrap my mind around why this has created so much uproar.
As a business owner, you have all the same rights afforded to you by the Constitution, just like everyone else.
If a private business refuses to serve certain members of the community, then I say let the free market decide their fate.
Don't like their business practices? Don't shop there! It's simple.

You just have to be really careful not to tiptoe the line of stripping rights from one group to favor another.
I personally think that this bill is a death sentence to any business that wishes to use it, BUT it is still their right to do so.
This bill re-enforces the simple private sector law that any and all people are granted.
What you have on your private property and who you allow on it is completely YOUR right...
(But yet again, to any business that chooses to use this bill in their favor will likely only hurt them and probably put them out of business).

 

[Bennettjh]

IBTL.

 

[Cameramonkey]

He's definitely a poor leader. I couldn't help but sigh when he was on national TV and couldn't answer with a simple yes or no. You are a governor for crying out loud. His deflections made his intentions clear to me at least.

That ranks right up there with "do you still beat your wife?" There was no easy soundbyteable answer because 101 doesnt touch the question. Its technically irrelevant. It doesnt address whether you can be forced to sell your flowers. It lays out what the govt can/cant do when the SHTF and lawsuits are filed. Its like claiming a new law about lethal injection rules and procedures has anything to do with the legality of murder. Its not about the act you dont like, its about what happens IF the act of murder happens. (and dont go down the rabbit hole of death penalty=murder. thats not the point here)

BS.

Agreed. This is all the fault of liberal bloggers, journalists and others who want to armchair QB what they THINK the legislation does. Oh, and the far right fundies too that decided 101 gave them cover to not sell to some based on religious convictions. It does NOTHING that either end of the extremes says. IANAL but Ive read it myself. 3x. Its not very long. I cant see where either side can get either extreme view out of it. As Abdul said "its not about the law, its about the PERCEPTION of the law. Its all optics. (paraphrased)

Even worse is when a leader blames the free press. Watch him completely lose his cool today after he exhausted his talking points and prepared remarks. He is unwilling to own it. He is appealing to conspiracy theory. Good grief.

Luckily we have common sense GOP leaders like Ballard speaking out against this abomination.

Indiana is the national laughing stock. This weekend, Indy lucked into the perfect storm. A Final Four with 3 regional teams, 2 of which are border states. Yet when the hundreds of thousands sit in resturant lounges and bars the topic of discussion will be how Indiana hates gays. They will see the protests. They will read local news.

Awful leadership. If the GOP wants to save any face Mike Pence must step down.

Its not the free press, its the LIBERAL free press that are pushing an agenda to sell papers. And in doing so spooked numerous orgs. Take a close look at how many are walking back their decisions now that theyve had a chance to read for themselves. INCON and others have now said "maybe we WONT pull out after all". And I love the hypocrisy of those in states who already passed RFRA who are telling their folks not to come here.

Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act Allows Private Businesses to Discriminate Against Employees Based on Sexual Orientation ? The Atlantic

Not sure his stepping down would lead to better leadership, (they really don't pick the Lt. governor for their leadership skills), but it would go a long way towards easing the embarrassment he, along with the legislature and Eric Miller and crew, have caused this state. Not going to happen, though. He, and his fellow gop-ers, don't give a damn what the people of this state or any other think. They only care what the narrow base thinks, and that's who this was crafted for and by. It's not the same as the federal version or those of other states. It was crafted with the intent to allow discrimination, (Eric Miller and his cronies have just about said as much).

We run around freaking out about the word "discrimination" as if we don't all discriminate every day.

Not all people have a right to my services. I can choose my clients and have rejected cases based upon my personal, religious, beliefs. Why should the government be allowed to force me to provide my services to a client whose cause I do not believe in based upon my religious beliefs?

Right now, there is no such law and all the RFRA does is provide a means to challenge any such law that may be passed. If the government should make such a law and it does not substantially impair my freedom of religion or it is narrowly tailored to address a compelling state interest, the law will be upheld. If the government makes a law that substantially impairs my ability to freely practice my religion and it is not narrowly tailored to address a compelling state interest, I can assert the law as a defense to a lawsuit or enforcement action. A powerful PR machine is the only reason this is even an issue....and oh yes, anti-religious bigots. That street runs two ways.

Anyone else notice that now the LGBT community's only solution is to legislate themselves as a protected class to prevent descrimination that 101 doesnt even allow? What was it they said? Never let a crisis go to waste?

 

[Dead Duck]

IBTL

In
Between
The
Lesbians

 

[buckwacker]

IBTL

In
Between
The
Lesbians

 

[kiddchaos]

A cake is a cake, not a religious symbol.

They made a law to provide guidance for the courts? Which way will we be guided?

 

[Woobie]

After the debacle on the Sunday morning circuit, losing his cool today, and his inability to say that discrimination is wrong, Mike Pence needs to do the IN GOP, as well as the national GOP a favor, and step aside. The damage is done. The complete lack of optics doing this the week an event larger than the Super Bowl is in town displays terrible leadership. Inviting known hate groups to the private, no press, invitation only bill signing was over the top.

The VP of VisitIndy was on the radio this afternoon discussing the millions of dollars Pence has cost hard working Hoosier families.

It is time for the real leaders in the IN GOP to step forward and the suffering. This will spill into 2016 presidential elections so I would wager state leaders could easily get the backing of prominent national GOP leaders.

I'll not weigh in on this argument. I have my own opinion, but I'll not burden you all with that here. There is another issue I would like to address, and that is the complete neutering of modern America, including, it would seem, a good portion of Hoosiers. Make a coherent, cohesive argument for or against this law, and I'll be all ears. But this panty-waisted whimpering about what someone half a continent away thinks about this state is nauseating. So plug your leaking eye sockets, swallow your sobs and grow up. If you think this law is a bad idea, use your mind and your courage to articulate your beliefs. If you think it's great, don't apologize. But don't come into an Internet forum all weak-kneed and timid calling for someone who does take a stand to resign because the squirrels in Central Park think he's dumb. Once upon a time, a great nation was founded by the Grace of God and the stalwart moral courage of brave men and women. Their descendants tweet about how offended they are. I'm done.

 

[Woobie]

I wish. Dummies should recognize they're dummies and do us a favor, and become painters.

My FIL is a painter. What are you saying?

 

[buckwacker]

I'll not weigh in on this argument. I have my own opinion, but I'll not burden you all with that here. There is another issue I would like to address, and that is the complete neutering of modern America, including, it would seem, a good portion of Hoosiers. Make a coherent, cohesive argument for or against this law, and I'll be all ears. But this panty-waisted whimpering about what someone half a continent away thinks about this state is nauseating. So plug your leaking eye sockets, swallow your sobs and grow up. If you think this law is a bad idea, use your mind and your courage to articulate your beliefs. If you think it's great, don't apologize. But don't come into an Internet forum all weak-kneed and timid calling for someone who does take a stand to resign because the squirrels in Central Park think he's dumb. Once upon a time, a great nation was founded by the Grace of God and the stalwart moral courage of brave men and women. Their descendants tweet about how offended they are. I'm done.

Hear! Hear!

 

[ModernGunner]

Gee, the lefty-libs want Pence to step down, but think the Liar-In-Chief should serve out his term. Quelle surprise, eh?

Actually, the more Pence gets under the skin of the liberals, the better it is for sane and sensible folks in Indiana.

Until those same goofs demand the yabo currently in the White House resigns, and that's accomplished, there can be no serious discussion of virtually any action taken by Pence.

 

[churchmouse]

My FIL is a painter. What are you saying?

Go figure.

 

[Que]

We run around freaking out about the word "discrimination" as if we don't all discriminate every day.

Not all people have a right to my services. I can choose my clients and have rejected cases based upon my personal, religious, beliefs. Why should the government be allowed to force me to provide my services to a client whose cause I do not believe in based upon my religious beliefs?

Right now, there is no such law and all the RFRA does is provide a means to challenge any such law that may be passed. If the government should make such a law and it does not substantially impair my freedom of religion or it is narrowly tailored to address a compelling state interest, the law will be upheld. If the government makes a law that substantially impairs my ability to freely practice my religion and it is not narrowly tailored to address a compelling state interest, I can assert the law as a defense to a lawsuit or enforcement action. A powerful PR machine is the only reason this is even an issue....and oh yes, anti-religious bigots. That street runs two ways.

I've stayed away from this, because I believe any business owner has the right to serve whomever they choose and should also be willing to accept the results if they choose not to serve a particular group. My question is, what law, in any of the civil rights legislation, forces a private business owner to serve someone? Maybe I've missed something, but I've not found it. If it doesn't exist, what is the purpose of this new law?

 

[churchmouse]

Gee, the lefty-libs want Pence to step down, but think the Liar-In-Chief should serve out his term. Quelle surprise, eh? :rolleye:

Actually, the more Pence gets under the skin of the liberals, the better it is for sane and sensible folks in Indiana.

Until those same goofs demand the yabo currently in the White House resigns, and that's accomplished, there can be no serious discussion of virtually any action taken by Pence.

It is becoming very obvious who is playing in left field in here.

 

[churchmouse]

I've stayed away from this, because I believe any business owner has the right to serve whomever they choose and should also be willing to accept the results if they choose not to serve a particular group. My question is, what law, in any of the civil rights legislation, forces a private business owner to serve someone? Maybe I've missed something, but I've not found it. If it doesn't exist, what is the purpose of this new law?

There has to be a constant stream of "New" law. If there was not the legislature and associated Gov. would become.....well.....obsolete.

 

[caverjamie]

Yeah, I think Pence should step down as soon as Obama steps down. Both elected, both unpopular with certain folks....both likely to serve out their term. No big surprises there.