Merry Christmas! You killed your step-daughter.

[Shay]

Simple decision to be made in our case thankfully.

No, not really. You still have the same responsibility to only shoot people who need to be shot.

 

[easy]

...come into our home without anticipation or invitation

You still have the same responsibility to only shoot people who need to be shot.

Sounds like someone who 'needs' to be shot.
Coming into MY house w/out an invite or permission will get you shot!

 

[Shay]

Sounds like someone who 'needs' to be shot.
Coming into MY house w/out an invite or permission will get you shot!

Again, not really.

Is your life in danger? Intent, opportunity and ability?

Some of the responses to this thread are the exact reason this thread was started with an article about a teenager getting shot. You STILL have to identify that the threat to your life is really a threat to your life. Even if you live alone. Even if it's dark. Even if you're scared. Even if you're sure that nobody should be in your house.

"Nobody should be in my house so I get to shoot anybody in my house" is a ridiculous statement.

 

[Sylvain]

Again, not really.

Is your life in danger? Intent, opportunity and ability?

Some of the responses to this thread are the exact reason this thread was started with an article about a teenager getting shot. You STILL have to identify that the threat to your life is really a threat to your life. Even if you live alone. Even if it's dark. Even if you're scared. Even if you're sure that nobody should be in your house.

"Nobody should be in my house so I get to shoot anybody in my house" is a ridiculous statement.

 

[Hookeye]

FWIW I was taught not to sneak into or about the house.

Not enough info in the story.

Had there been a burglary or other nearby, one with injuries/death?
Threats specific to that family?
Did the kid sneak out and come home?
If so, what was the kid doing out and about prior to being shot?

Years ago I had a stepkid (and their buddies) threaten to kill me, and burn my kids to death as well. They actually showed up (well drove up to the corner, never got out of vehicle). I was ready to shutdown anything they started.

Overall, with that, me thinks that society would be better off if some stepkids did get popped.

OP's story........might have been a terrible accident. Might have been just what was needed. Some rather A holes kids do "snap pout of it". Most don't, but then are just screwups in general, no real threat.

But some never do, and are truly dangerous, even at age 14.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Again, not really.

Is your life in danger? Intent, opportunity and ability?

Some of the responses to this thread are the exact reason this thread was started with an article about a teenager getting shot. You STILL have to identify that the threat to your life is really a threat to your life. Even if you live alone. Even if it's dark. Even if you're scared. Even if you're sure that nobody should be in your house.

"Nobody should be in my house so I get to shoot anybody in my house" is a ridiculous statement.

If I am understanding correctly that you consider it necessary to identify an intruder and make a thorough affirmative judgement that he is in fact a viable threat in terms of intent, opportunity, and ability, I have to ask you one question: Are you in the business of training people how to survive or how to get themselves killed? How the f**k am I supposed to know what an intruder is thinking or what his personal capabilities are? Once a person has been established to be an actual intruder, I fail to understand how it becomes my responsibility to establish the answers to questions which would require me to make him sit down for an interview before deciding whether or not to shoot him. Now, tell me, what are the chances I would come out of that alive in the event the intruder is in fact dangerous? Should I simply consider myself obligated to either detain in the event it is a nonviolent intruder or be a righteous corpse in the event of a violent intruder? Does this come from the same vein as the asinine laws in certain domestic soviet socialist republics mandating that one can only defend with weapons or lack thereof equal with that used by the attacker (i.e., blunt instruments only if the attacker has a baseball bat, empty hands only if he is unarmed, even if you are a 110 woman being attacked by a 250 pound habitual brawler)?

Seriously, past establishing that the intruder is in fact an unauthorized stranger (or dangerous person you know), what more do you expect of people? If we are going down this path, why not take the position that if you can reach a gun you can reach a phone and call the police and be done with it? Maybe I am being too harsh...are you simply a 'duty to retreat' person?

 

[Hookeye]

Many times the deceased knew the attacker........... so much for making a positive ID :P

 

[Snapdragon]

OP's story........might have been a terrible accident. Might have been just what was needed.

Seriously? It scares the living **** out of me that someone thinks that's right enough to say out loud.

 

[actaeon277]

Again, not really.

Is your life in danger? Intent, opportunity and ability?

Some of the responses to this thread are the exact reason this thread was started with an article about a teenager getting shot. You STILL have to identify that the threat to your life is really a threat to your life. Even if you live alone. Even if it's dark. Even if you're scared. Even if you're sure that nobody should be in your house.

"Nobody should be in my house so I get to shoot anybody in my house" is a ridiculous statement.

Cause they might be making me a bacon sandwich?

 

[Hookeye]

Seriously? It scares the living **** out of me that someone thinks that's right enough to say out loud.

There are quite a few messed up kids who have raped and tried to kill people.
Pretending they don't exist doesn't make them disappear.
Relax, my wife works with 'em. They'll be released when they turn 18........that age is magical, removes all threat.

Not enough info in the story to know if the kid that was shot was going to be a good citizen or a criminal.
Sure, lots of kids sneak in and out of their own houses, and lots of kids steal stuff too.

Doesn't mean they are or will be violent.

But the trends I've watched show a correlation, and they are increasing.

 

[Shay]

If I am understanding correctly that you consider it necessary to identify an intruder and make a thorough affirmative judgement that he is in fact a viable threat in terms of intent, opportunity, and ability, I have to ask you one question: Are you in the business of training people how to survive or how to get themselves killed? How the f**k am I supposed to know what an intruder is thinking or what his personal capabilities are? Once a person has been established to be an actual intruder, I fail to understand how it becomes my responsibility to establish the answers to questions which would require me to make him sit down for an interview before deciding whether or not to shoot him. Now, tell me, what are the chances I would come out of that alive in the event the intruder is in fact dangerous? Should I simply consider myself obligated to either detain in the event it is a nonviolent intruder or be a righteous corpse in the event of a violent intruder? Does this come from the same vein as the asinine laws in certain domestic soviet socialist republics mandating that one can only defend with weapons or lack thereof equal with that used by the attacker (i.e., blunt instruments only if the attacker has a baseball bat, empty hands only if he is unarmed, even if you are a 110 woman being attacked by a 250 pound habitual brawler)?

Seriously, past establishing that the intruder is in fact an unauthorized stranger (or dangerous person you know), what more do you expect of people? If we are going down this path, why not take the position that if you can reach a gun you can reach a phone and call the police and be done with it? Maybe I am being too harsh...are you simply a 'duty to retreat' person?

Ug. You sure did get spun up about someone suggesting you actually take a second to identify your target. Coincidentally it's one of those pesky 4 cardinal firearm safety rules people like me go on and on about.....

There are plenty of reasons why a person might be in your house, but not be a threat to you.

Ultimately you get to shoot who ever you want. I just hope you don't shoot a kid, your spouse or an old senile person who isn't a threat to you.

And no, I'm not a "duty to retreat" person. I'm a "don't shoot people who don't need to be shot" person.

 

[sepe]

Is Colorado Springs by South Park? Was she comin right at him? Maybe he thought it was ManBearPig.

 

[Hookeye]

I would have thought the rule of "never sneak in or out" to be an absolute at a gun home.
Not saying the kid that was shot was sneaking, but there's no damn justification for any teen to do that if they know guns are in the home.

I NEVER snuck in or out.
But then at age 12 I was really into rocket science.............

 

[Hookeye]

That's not Scuzzlebutt

Is Colorado Springs by South Park? Was she comin right at him? Maybe he thought it was ManBearPig.

 

[ckcollins2003]

Ug. You sure did get spun up about someone suggesting you actually take a second to identify your target. Coincidentally it's one of those pesky 4 cardinal firearm safety rules people like me go on and on about.....

There are plenty of reasons why a person might be in your house, but not be a threat to you.

Ultimately you get to shoot who ever you want. I just hope you don't shoot a kid, your spouse or an old senile person who isn't a threat to you.

And no, I'm not a "duty to retreat" person. I'm a "don't shoot people who don't need to be shot" person.

In a way I completely agree with you, but at the same time the source of the story doesn't have enough information in it to justify what you are saying, IMO. For all we know he did ask who it was. If she had snuck out (only reason I can think of her coming in that early in the morning) and not identified herself when her stepfather asked, was he in the wrong? In the aftermath of the events he obviously was, but had it been an actual intruder, he done the right thing. If the story had the same amount of information without the words "step daughter" I truly believe everyone on this site would blame the girl.

In the story I read, which was the link the OP provided, it didn't say anything about her attacking him. It's sad that the intruder ended up being someone he loved, but the reality is that you only have a split second to make a decision. As IndyDave stated, how long do you really wait? What if that person who you think is an intruder is armed and decides to shoot at you first? This man most likely thought that everyone who was supposed to be in the house was there and was simply trying to protect his family. Just my two cents... but I'm not going to bash the guy for defending his own home.

 

[Bunnykid68]

If you are in my house and you don't turn on the light when it is dark you must be up to no good.

 

[Hookeye]

So you smoke Santa and now your holiday gets top honors?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

but I'm curious as to what facts would make this Okey Dokey.

Pffft, under the facts of a gun forum, silly.

Hi, Kirk the Safety Nanny here. Remember when I told you that the Four Rules were a good idea so you don't set yourself or others on fire? Well, those very same Four Rules that INGO says are old and busted and not hip and cool like all those "modern trainers" will keep your behind out of prison. Yes, kids, taking a human life will have consequences and no amount of times of saying "meye property" will defeat those consequences that you have brought down upon yourself by ignoring the Four Rules.

Just walked into my dad's house after dinner and movie out with girlfriend. Lots of people, especially over the holidays are in and out of houses. Just because it is your property does not render a free fire zone.

 

[CitiusFortius]

Should I simply consider myself obligated to either detain in the event it is a nonviolent intruder or be a righteous corpse in the event of a violent intruder?

The point is, if you decide to have a gun, every action has an equal and opposite reaction. It's cool to talk tough on a message board, but when you pull that trigger, a life will be over. That's reality.

Everybodys house and family is different, ideally you'd get your family locked in 1 room, call 911 - yell out that the police are on their way and aim at the door. If this guy had called out, she'd be alive.

The anti gunners have a valid point, you are MORE LIKELY to kill a relative than a bad guy. To dismiss that point and not take it to heart and prep for it well, kind of makes you an idiot.

(ex - this daughter sneaks home with a bff, you see the friend, not the daughter & shoot)

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Light switch...........just saying.

Pffft, if I keep the lights on then I can't play Captain Tactical! The light will give away my tactical position and it will cost money and I can't shoot people in the dark like they do in the movies and having a lighted house is just so safe and . . . boring!

Look, I went to all this trouble to buy my Captain Tactical pants and everything. Geez, *kicks rocks* getting all boring like that mean, old Kirk Freeman who won't let me shoot kids on "meye property" *kicks rocks*