Medal of Honor recipient Sued for flying Flag

[TopDog]

Do we really need to be reminded to mow our yards, cut down weeds, etc?

Nowadays yes.
I don't know if any American communities still exist that take care of each other. Time was that older neighbors were looked out for by the neighborhood. Neighbors would help each other for the common good. Now its more like "them against me" mentality.

 

[hornadylnl]

Nowadays yes.
I don't know if any American communities still exist that take care of each other. Time was that older neighbors were looked out for by the neighborhood. Neighbors would help each other for the common good. Now its more like "them against me" mentality.

I mow my 90 year old neighbors by choice. Now if someone told me I had to, it would be a much different story. We've mutilated personal responsibility at every level and we wonder why your neighbor doesn't have any courtesy to mow his yard at least 2 or 3 times a year. I still believe that if you want your grass 3' tall, you should be allowed to. As a courtesy and my personal preference, I mow mine regularly.

 

[Michiana]

I don't live in an HOA and never will. If my neighbors ever complained about what I had in my yard, I'd erect a 50' pink flamingo statue. Of course, I'm sure I'd have to get it approved by the planning commission and get a building permit for it. Some communities require you to get approval to have more than 3 dogs. Is this America or Communist Russia?

Every type of area people live have positives and negatives; nobody forces you to live where you are uncomfortable. I choose to live in a community that tries to protect home values; you choose to live out in "anything goes" land. Neither choice is right or wrong; just a matter of individual preference.

 

[eatsnopaste]

Yeah, I mean not having to see sports flags is totally worth pooing all over this Medal of Honor winner's desire to honor his country in his own yard........


Right?

This amazing man entered into a contract when he became an officer and fulfilled it in a way that shows all of us how it is supposed to be done. He now should honor the contract he signed when he bought the house, you know the one that he thought would keep his neighborhood looking nice, keep property values high...
In one of our neighborhoods here in South Bend we have what I call "bath tub Mary" what looks like half a tub with Mary behind glass....in the front yard on the stump of a tree left about ten feet high. Freedom of religion? Don't like HOA's won't live in one, but you sign the deal...get it changed or go with the flow.

 

[dburkhead]

This amazing man entered into a contract when he became an officer and fulfilled it in a way that shows all of us how it is supposed to be done. He now should honor the contract he signed when he bought the house, you know the one that he thought would keep his neighborhood looking nice, keep property values high...
In one of our neighborhoods here in South Bend we have what I call "bath tub Mary" what looks like half a tub with Mary behind glass....in the front yard on the stump of a tree left about ten feet high. Freedom of religion? Don't like HOA's won't live in one, but you sign the deal...get it changed or go with the flow.

Federal law trumps homeowners covenants so unless the HOA can show a "substantive interest" in the presence or absence of that flagpole (and "not aesthetically pleasing"--according to whoever made that determination--doesn't cut it on that score, IMO) then the HOA board can go climb their collective thumb.

Also, he did not sign a contract that forbade flagpoles specifically. So, even leaving aside the Federal law aspect, there's a very real question about whether the board is simply enforcing the contract, trying to unilaterally rewrite the terms on the fly, or exceeding the authority granted by that contract.

 

[Marc]

HOA = NAZI ZOMBIE

 

[Dryden]

I mow my 90 year old neighbors by choice. Now if someone told me I had to, it would be a much different story. We've mutilated personal responsibility at every level and we wonder why your neighbor doesn't have any courtesy to mow his yard at least 2 or 3 times a year. I still believe that if you want your grass 3' tall, you should be allowed to. As a courtesy and my personal preference, I mow mine regularly.

After a surgery, I had neighbors come over my house and mow my lawn without even asking if it was OK. They just thought it was the right thing to do and it didn't take a Home Owners Association to determine when and why.
We help each other out with shoveling snow also. And planting trees, and spreding compost, and fixing mailbox posts........
We're a community. We look out for each other. We respect each other's views. If you want to fly an American flag, permission is not needed.

 

[eatsnopaste]

Federal law trumps homeowners covenants so unless the HOA can show a "substantive interest" in the presence or absence of that flagpole (and "not aesthetically pleasing"--according to whoever made that determination--doesn't cut it on that score, IMO) then the HOA board can go climb their collective thumb.

Also, he did not sign a contract that forbade flagpoles specifically. So, even leaving aside the Federal law aspect, there's a very real question about whether the board is simply enforcing the contract, trying to unilaterally rewrite the terms on the fly, or exceeding the authority granted by that contract.

Did he sign something SPECIFICALLY saying he can't have a flagpole, probably not. Did he sign a contract saying he would abide by the HOA C&R's, yep, did the contract say he ceded authority to them about certain architectural items? I would imagine so, and then...then he went and PAID THEM with his dues to do what he contracted them to do! I'm all for this wonderful man and wish him everything he wants in life including his flag pole.

 

[dburkhead]

Did he sign something SPECIFICALLY saying he can't have a flagpole, probably not. Did he sign a contract saying he would abide by the HOA C&R's, yep, did the contract say he ceded authority to them about certain architectural items? I would imagine so, and then...then he went and PAID THEM with his dues to do what he contracted them to do! I'm all for this wonderful man and wish him everything he wants in life including his flag pole.

And Federal Law says that organizations such as the HOA can not forbid the flying of the American Flag and may only offer "reasonable restrictions" on the manner if they have a "substantial interest" in the result. I quoted from the law uptopic.

IOW, unless they can demonstrate that they have "Substantial interest" in whether a resident has a vertical flagpole vs. one extending from a building wall, then they don't have the legal authority to make that particular "architectural" decision.

As for having paid them, I may take my Miata into a a shop for a suspension alignment, I would be very unhappy if they decided as part of that suspension work to remove the competition suspension and put on a "stock" one. Just because you pay someone to do something, doesn't mean that they do what you paid them to do.

 

[Fletch]

Just because you pay someone to do something, doesn't mean that they do what you paid them to do.

The federal government demonstrates this on a daily basis.

 

[hornadylnl]

Every type of area people live have positives and negatives; nobody forces you to live where you are uncomfortable. I choose to live in a community that tries to protect home values; you choose to live out in "anything goes" land. Neither choice is right or wrong; just a matter of individual preference.

I like to think I live in "my rights trump your wallet land", not anything goes land. Where I live, your rights end at your property line as mine end at mine.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

The federal government demonstrates this on a daily basis.

To the contrary... in the Federal Gubbamint's case, it means that someone else has paid them MORE to do what THEY want....

 

[dross]

I like to think I live in "my rights trump your wallet land", not anything goes land. Where I live, your rights end at your property line as mine end at mine.

Wait, wait, wait. Your rights do trump someone else's wallet. However, let's say you want to live in a neighborhood where everyone keeps up their yard, and maintains certain standards? It's tyranny if you pass laws that forces someone else to live up to your standards, agreed. But what if you band together with other people who also want certain standards to be set? You all voluntarily agree that you'll abide by certain rules, and in the case of gray areas, you'll elect or appoint a committee to make the decisions in everyone's benefit. This is what an HOA is supposed to be.

Now, I've lived with an HOA, and without. I prefer without. However, if a group of people want to get together and create a voluntary association, that's a decision based on freedom, and an exercise of property rights, not a denial of them.

 

[hornadylnl]

Wait, wait, wait. Your rights do trump someone else's wallet. However, let's say you want to live in a neighborhood where everyone keeps up their yard, and maintains certain standards? It's tyranny if you pass laws that forces someone else to live up to your standards, agreed. But what if you band together with other people who also want certain standards to be set? You all voluntarily agree that you'll abide by certain rules, and in the case of gray areas, you'll elect or appoint a committee to make the decisions in everyone's benefit. This is what an HOA is supposed to be.

Now, I've lived with an HOA, and without. I prefer without. However, if a group of people want to get together and create a voluntary association, that's a decision based on freedom, and an exercise of property rights, not a denial of them.

I agree, people have every right to form an HOA if they want. I just don't want to hear them cry when they are the target of the nosy busybodies and are being told what to do. Like I said previously, Americans used to yearn for freedom. Now we surrender our personal responsibility every chance we get. HOA's are an example of that. I'm getting ready to build on approximately 27 acres, surrounded by trees. Not much a neighbor is going to be able to do to affect my property value.

My brother lives in one off of southport and more than once, he's had to get a chainsaw from me to cut stuff out of a ditch behind his house. The HOA put landscaping on his property as his lot borders the road entering the subdivision. It looked pretty after a couple years so he tore it all out. Plenty of bickering ensued back and forth over that one. Now, he's wanting to cut down some trees that are between the road and his sidewalk. He seems to think the roots will uproot his sidewalk and the HOA is trying to stop him. It's like watching a bunch of 4 years olds fight, really.

 

[jeremy]

My goal is to have at least a 466,560 acre yard...

 

[Fletch]

My goal is to have at least a 466,560 acre yard...

Who do you think you are, Ted Turner?

 

[jeremy]

Nope...

I just want a yard large enough that I can see to the Horizon and not have the view inturupted by nieghbors...

 

[hornadylnl]

Nope...

I just want a yard large enough that I can see to the Horizon and not have the view inturupted by nieghbors...

I can barely see the road, let alone the neighbors house even with the leaves down. 350' of bare trees still make for a pretty good visual block.

 

[jwglock]

What are you talking about a free pass? Number one, if it came down to a free pass Yes he does rate a free pass and more. Number two this isn't about a free pass. As noted in the original post there is nothing in the rules that forbids a flagpole. So why would you say he is trying for a free pass? It seems to me if no one complained why deny it? Maybe we don't have the full story but it doesnt set right with me. The man deserves more respect than what he is getting.

Goll dern right he deserves a free pass! And a hell of a lot of RESPECT!!!

Fly your flag, sir... And tell them to go fly a kite!

 

[hornadylnl]

Just so you guys know that I practice what I preach.

This has been the view from my front porch for at least 2 months now. We did not call the owners until at least 2-3 weeks after they knocked this trailer down and left it. We only called because trash from it was blowing in our yard. Their property rights end at my property line. They told us they'd be out the following Saturday to clean it up. About 3 Saturdays later, they still hadn't showed up. We called again and they had excuses so we called the Board of Health. They finally cleaned up some of it a few weeks ago and here is how it still sits. It was an old house trailer that was rented out. I'd rather it sit like it does now than have the douche bags that were in it last back. I think that pile of trash right by the road has sat there for 2 years now.

And just a 90 degree turn, this sits in my front yard about 10 feet from the road. I didn't need to get anyone's permission to put it up and if anyone complains about it, I can tell them to sit and spin.