Martial Arts Recommendations

[printcraft]

Truth. Kata is about as effective on the street as dancing.

Yeah, but you'll be glad you have it when you rumble with the Jets.

 

[AndersonIN]

BJJ training is fantastic! I'm 6' #210 the two main guys I roll with are 6' 8" 285 and 6' 4" 350#. I've decided anything bigger and I shoot them first!

 

[17 squirrel]

Truth. Kata is about as effective on the street as dancing.

If that's how you feel, you truly don't understand why you learn katas.

 

[chezuki]

If that's how you feel, you truly don't understand why you learn katas.

I get the discipline and exercise of it, but implying they have anything to do with self defense is fairy dust at best.

 

[Fargo]

Truth. Kata is about as effective on the street as dancing.

Kata is about stance, control and muscle memory at first. Beyond that, there is efficiency of movement and a whole bunch of other benefits once one gets past the basic memorization and into what the kata actually is representing. It the base from which most other skills flow. It is not some glorified choreographed fight move.

I started out in Okinowan Karate but have been mostly boxing for the last decade or so. My most effective boxing techniques are all based in the hard and soft movements I was taught through kata.

 

[Jackson]

On Katas...

This is just my take, but well-concieved* Katas are done to teach position, posture, movement, and potential series of artack. I never cared for them in katate, but I think there can be a place for them if applied right.

Also, I was at BJJ the other night and a guy was demonstrating a choke. I remember thinking to myself, "that looks like a posture and movement I remember from an old kata". It was a totally different orientation and context though.

In general, for self defense, I agree though. Kata and much of what you'll do at a traditional MA school may have less benefit than other more focused training.

*I say well conceived because there are so many different variations of the same Katas out there and no one can say why they were changed or if anyone even did it intentionally. Most of the time I think people are just doing what they remember of what they were taught and it's like the telephone gsme. Some of the important details get lost.

 

[AndersonIN]

I get the discipline and exercise of it, but implying they have anything to do with self defense is fairy dust at best.

Wasn't it Mike Tyson that said "Everyone has a KATA 'till they get punched in the mouth."

 

[17 squirrel]

Truth. Kata is about as effective on the street as dancing.

If that's how you feel, you truly don't understand why you learn katas.

I get the discipline and exercise of it, but implying they have anything to do with self defense is fairy dust at best.

Like I said, you don't understand why katas are taught. I will try to explain.

Each move from a kata has specific applications. After I execute one of these moves on an opponent, I know exactly the position he is going to be in, I know where his head should be, where his torso should be, etc. If I execute the same move with my eyes shut in a pitch black cave, I still know exactly what I have just done to him and his body position. Depending on the exact application I just used, I know whether I need to follow up with something else, and depending on his (and my) body position I know which kata technique I should use next.

Even simple bunkai is powerful. Take one simple move found in many kata, soto uke while pivoting sideways into kiba dachi (inner block while pivoting sideways into horse riding stance). Depending on how your engaged with the opponent when I start this move it is either an arm break/elbow dislocation, a knockout, or a hip dislocation. This stuff is all buried in the kata. If successfully executed then this move is all I need to stop the fight.
The key with all, is perfection within your katas. Its all done with thought and muscle memory and repetitive training.
With katas you are aware of exactly where your opponent is and what else is happening around you.

 

[chezuki]

Like I said, you don't understand why katas are taught. I will try to explain.

Each move from a kata has specific applications. After I execute one of these moves on an opponent, I know exactly the position he is going to be in, I know where his head should be, where his torso should be, etc. If I execute the same move with my eyes shut in a pitch black cave, I still know exactly what I have just done to him and his body position. Depending on the exact application I just used, I know whether I need to follow up with something else, and depending on his (and my) body position I know which kata technique I should use next.

Even simple bunkai is powerful. Take one simple move found in many kata, soto uke while pivoting sideways into kiba dachi (inner block while pivoting sideways into horse riding stance). Depending on how your engaged with the opponent when I start this move it is either an arm break/elbow dislocation, a knockout, or a hip dislocation. This stuff is all buried in the kata. If successfully executed then this move is all I need to stop the fight.
The key with all, is perfection within your katas. Its all done with thought and muscle memory and repetitive training.
With katas you are aware of exactly where your opponent is and what else is happening around you.

Sure.

And you've tested all this full-speed against free-thinking, actively resisting opponents yes?

 

[Jackson]

Like I said, you don't understand why katas are taught. I will try to explain.

Each move from a kata has specific applications. After I execute one of these moves on an opponent, I know exactly the position he is going to be in, I know where his head should be, where his torso should be, etc. If I execute the same move with my eyes shut in a pitch black cave, I still know exactly what I have just done to him and his body position. Depending on the exact application I just used, I know whether I need to follow up with something else, and depending on his (and my) body position I know which kata technique I should use next.

Even simple bunkai is powerful. Take one simple move found in many kata, soto uke while pivoting sideways into kiba dachi (inner block while pivoting sideways into horse riding stance). Depending on how your engaged with the opponent when I start this move it is either an arm break/elbow dislocation, a knockout, or a hip dislocation. This stuff is all buried in the kata. If successfully executed then this move is all I need to stop the fight.
The key with all, is perfection within your katas. Its all done with thought and muscle memory and repetitive training.
With katas you are aware of exactly where your opponent is and what else is happening around you.

How many times have you tried to execute your kata attacks with live resistance?

 

[17 squirrel]

And also remember, with most physical altercations that you get into in life, very few and I mean very few encounters your opponents will have any training in any style of fighting.
In most situations a simple wrist lock and a punch, the fights over..
Normally when involved in a argument that's escalated almost to showtime, if your opponents hands are at his / her sides. They have zero skills and are wrestlers at best.

 

[Jackson]

Man, Chez beat me to my question.

 

[Jackson]

And also remember, with most physical altercations that you get into in life, very few and I mean very few encounters your opponents will have any training in any style of fighting.
In most situations a simple wrist lock and a punch, the fights over..
Normally when involved in a argument that's escalated almost to showtime, if your opponents hands are at his / her sides. They have zero skills and are wrestlers at best.

Now, I'm not very good, but I've been messed up by some weestlers. I hope they aren't good wrestlers.

 

[chezuki]

Man, Chez beat me to my question.

Meh... You're the one who made me ask myself the same question after 10+ years of Shorei Goju Ryu, so you still get credit.

 

[chezuki]

Lol @ before the edit.

 

[17 squirrel]

Sure.

And you've tested all this full-speed against free-thinking, actively resisting opponents yes?

How many times have you tried to execute your kata attacks with live resistance?

More than once.. And my katas are sloppy, if you firmly believe katas are B S.
I would suggest you roll through your local Okinawan Karate school and throw some gear on and spar alittle with the Sensei that's instructing that evening.
Make sure you tell him katas are silly and made of Fairy Dust..

 

[Jackson]

I'm not sure if that's hot or a typo...

It's both. Those jello wrestling chicks are serious. I would still get in there, though.

 

[Jackson]

More than once.. And my katas are sloppy, if you firmly believe katas are B S.
I would suggest you roll through your local Okinawan Karate school and throw some gear on and spar alittle with the Sensei that's instructing that evening.
Make sure you tell him katas are silly and made of Fairy Dust..

I didn't say they had no benefit and I've sparred with a couple senseis too. It was painful, but none of them used the horse stance. We sparred a little differently in Kyokushin than some of the other styles I've seen. So I may not be well informed.

 

[Denny347]

Kata is about stance, control and muscle memory at first. Beyond that, there is efficiency of movement and a whole bunch of other benefits once one gets past the basic memorization and into what the kata actually is representing. It the base from which most other skills flow. It is not some glorified choreographed fight move.

I started out in Okinowan Karate but have been mostly boxing for the last decade or so. My most effective boxing techniques are all based in the hard and soft movements I was taught through kata.

I am not well versed in other disciplines, I focus on BJJ, some boxing, and a hint of Muay Thai....aka-LE self defense. What happens if a fight goes to ground? I'm asking an honest question because I do not know how other disciplines address it. With so many HS and college wrestlers and many people emulating the MMA they see on TV/Youtube, ground fighting is a valuable skill. Most fights I see end up on the ground.

 

[chezuki]

What happens if a fight goes to ground?

Pure speculation, but it may involve urine.