Manhunt: Police shoot innocent people looking for suspect

[maxmayhem]

Proof that cops take care of their own more than they take care of citizens...I heard a police spokesman say that their primary concern was officer safety...well that is fine but my primary concern is my family's safety...they can have guns but i will be keeping mine too....

 

[the1kidd03]

Please speak for yourself. I don't want to be lumped in with irresponsible idiots who shoot at unidentified targets. Anybody who behaves this way does not belong in a uniform. The public doesn't need this kind of "service."

It's easy to debate from 2000 miles away and not holding the position they do. Therefore, it's also easy to place blame after the fact when we have TIME on our side to evaluate things while NOT in the heat of the moment and trying to figure out if something is a threat or not.

They made a call in what at the time seemed to them like threatening situation. I cannot fault them for that, but it's easy to assume what media sources are telling us is 100% truthful. Having been in those situations I understand what sort of time sensitivity they hold and often a judgement is made. Sometimes it's wrong, others it's not. In this case it was, but again that's easy to say given ONLY what information we are and AFTER the fact.

I stand by my statement.

I don't normally agree with most things LEOs do, but in this particular case I know there is enough left OUT of what we do know to not make such bold conclusions. Otherwise, I'd be under the tin hat with the rest of you.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Likely not, but we don't have all the facts of the contributing circumstances that lead to the misidentification either.

Again, I'm not discounting that the cops were assclowns, but I am stating that there is more to the story that we haven't received.

Likely not? What possible fact could lead to a "reasonable" mistaken identity between these two? I know you have your lawyer hat on, but come off it.

Was he wearing a "black guy mask" and a bunch of pillows under his shirt? Are these the mystery circumstances the press isn't releasing?

 

[ATOMonkey]

It's easy to debate from 2000 miles away and not holding the position they do. Therefore, it's also easy to place blame after the fact when we have TIME on our side to evaluate things while NOT in the heat of the moment and trying to figure out if something is a threat or not.

They made a call in what at the time seemed to them like threatening situation. I cannot fault them for that, but it's easy to assume what media sources are telling us is 100% truthful. Having been in those situations I understand what sort of time sensitivity they hold and often a judgement is made. Sometimes it's wrong, others it's not. In this case it was, but again that's easy to say given ONLY what information we are and AFTER the fact.

I stand by my statement.

I don't normally agree with most things LEOs do, but in this particular case I know there is enough left OUT of what we do know to not make such bold conclusions. Otherwise, I'd be under the tin hat with the rest of you.

If police are so scared that they think everyone in a pickup is trying to kill them, they should do everyone a favor and just hide under their covers.

 

[Lycurgus]

Likely not, but we don't have all the facts of the contributing circumstances that lead to the misidentification either.

Again, I'm not discounting that the cops were assclowns, but I am stating that theres A VERY SLIM CHANCE there's more to the story that we haven't received.

fixed that for you.

it's already been stated the lights were off and the LAPD ''claims' they told them to stop.

 

[Ted]

Again... I'm not here trying to decide their fate. My only point is that they should stand trial for this. Besides I don't think the mistake negates culpability in this case, but again... I'm not going to be on the jury and from the looks of it, no one else is either.

Looking in from the outside... I don't see a scenario where they shouldn't AT LEAST lose their jobs. They have proven themselves completely unfit....

There are a lot of things that should happen even before a decision upon a criminal trial should be made. A Grand Jury should be convened, and hear evidence that is fairly presented, and without passion. Only after a True Bill is garnered, should it proceed.

I don't disagree with you regarding their fitness, but due process need be followed.

 

[Ted]

fixed that for you.

it's already been stated the lights were off and the LAPD ''claims' they told them to stop.

Trusting the media to practice a high degree of ethical conduct to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.....are ya?

 

[ATOMonkey]

There are a lot of things that should happen even before a decision upon a criminal trial should be made. A Grand Jury should be convened, and hear evidence that is fairly presented, and without passion. Only after a True Bill is garnered, should it proceed.

I don't disagree with you regarding their fitness, but due process need be followed.

Grand Jury?? What is so complicated about this that we need a trial to figure out if we need a trial?

Grand Juries are for prosecutors who just want to punt responsibility.

 

[the1kidd03]

Whoa... being sentenced and being charged are two different things. I'm not sure what is so difficult to understand here?

2 COMPLETELY INNOCENT people were shot in the back. Another COMPLETELY INNOCENT guy had his car rammed and was shot at 3 times.

Someone pulled those triggers and are innocent until proven guilty.... However, they should be charged with a crime and go through the judiciary system just like you or I would have to. I don't care if they are your buddy or uncle or Jesus reincarnated. Instead, it sounds like "oops" is all that is happening here and that echos the sentiment of Mr. Dorner in his manifesto, that LA cops live by a different set of rules and regulations from everyone else.

Agreed on all counts, but really is that any different from ANY city LE? No. There is ALWAYS that "thin blue line" which demonstrates divisions within our communities and it's perpetuated by the LEOs themselves and makes their job even harder, to their own fault though.

All I'm saying is that we know little to NOTHING about what actually happened. We as gun owners complain all the time about how the media intentionally misleads people's train of thought through their erroneous interpretations, yet in this case everyone has jumped on the "burn em and hang em high" bandwagon from information presented by those same places.

It's proven that there is far more to the situation that we are being told. All I can do in good faith is HOPE that the prosecutors and other leadership can impose enough weight of their authority to ensure the situations is properly investigated and dealt with. More outcry than is necessary can likely have an emotional effect on those who will pass judgement on those who are charged. Meaning that even in the face of evidence proving they were in the right, they could be found guilty due to emotional states of jurors and such. Outcry like this has that ability to affect a situation in those contexts, and people fail to realize it or don't care because they've already judged them as guilty even though they know relatively NOTHING; only what the media tells them.

 

[the1kidd03]

If police are so scared that they think everyone in a pickup is trying to kill them, they should do everyone a favor and just hide under their covers.

So, while searching for a man who's publically stated his intent to target officers and demonstrated his willingness to kill innocents, if a vehicle snuck up on you in the dark and ignored your verbal commands you would not have been scared enough to react?

 

[Ted]

Grand Jury?? What is so complicated about this that we need a trial to figure out if we need a trial?

A Grand Jury isn't a trial. Its a process that he prosecution presents evidence, and allows a group of ordinary people to decide if there is enough to place one in the peril of the legal system.

An imperfect legal system, that I may ad, that bankrupts people....as well as wrongfully convicts people.

So why are you so opposed to a Grand Jury? Are you opposed to established due process?

Grand Juries are for prosecutors who just want to punt responsibility.

Or not appear to be bias about engaging in an arbitrary and capricious conduct to prosecute or not?

 

[griffin]

The car tried sneaking up on/past officers while searching for a dangerous man in the dark and was unresponsive to verbal commands.

What verbal commands? The LAPD have never said they gave the truck verbal commands.

Plus, they stated they saw it driving slowly along and pausing by houses (as the woman threw the newspapers out). They didn't see them throwing newspapers out? And why shoot at the back of the truck? Isn't it not a threat if it is moving away from you?

 

[ATOMonkey]

A Grand Jury isn't a trial. Its a process that he prosecution presents evidence, and allows a group of ordinary people to decide if there is enough to place one in the peril of the legal system.

An imperfect legal system, that I may ad, that bankrupts people....as well as wrongfully convicts people.

So why are you so opposed to a Grand Jury? Are you opposed to established due process?



Or not appear to be bias about engaging in an arbitrary and capricious conduct to prosecute or not?

Nuance...

If our legal system was actually a justice system, we wouldn't have need of a grand jury process.

 

[ATOMonkey]

What verbal commands? The LAPD have never said they gave the truck verbal commands.

Plus, they stated they saw it driving slowly along and pausing by houses (as the woman threw the newspapers out). They didn't see them throwing newspapers out? And why shoot at the back of the truck? Isn't it not a threat if it is moving away from you?

if you were scared ****less that someone was trying to kill you, which end would you rather shoot at?

 

[the1kidd03]

What verbal commands? The LAPD have never said they gave the truck verbal commands.

Plus, they stated they saw it driving slowly along and pausing by houses (as the woman threw the newspapers out). They didn't see them throwing newspapers out? And why shoot at the back of the truck? Isn't it not a threat if it is moving away from you?

Again, the media has the Constitution which grants them the ability to interpret things however they wish or even leave whatever they want out and present it as truthful. We as gun owners should KNOW this better than ANYONE.

I haven't followed this story all the way through. Honestly, because I don't care. I first learned of it early in the weekend and it caught my attention Saturday morning when I heard of the lady being shot. So I called my friend who's a supervising officer in the area for clarification.

Based on what he told me in a relatively short conversation, and while understanding he cannot tell me too much detail, I know the media has or is leaving a LOT out. Whether or not that is intentional IDK nor do I care. It simply serves as proof to the fact that we know relatively NOTHING of truth.

According to that conversation, they did receive verbal commands. Whether or not they were able to hear them...

Regardless, it ALL proves that it is/was a very confusing situation and set of circumstances. In which case, it is not justifiable reason enough IMO to crucify a man by possibly having an effect on the outcome of his trial through community outcry.

 

[hornadylnl]

if you were scared ****less that someone was trying to kill you, which end would you rather shoot at?

Judging by the logic here, all 4 door truck drivers in LA are justified in preemptive force against LEOs. They've proven they will shoot at you.

 

[Ted]

Nuance...

If our legal system was actually a justice system, we wouldn't have need of a grand jury process.

Your words are of small consequence when a prosecutor abuses his authority to ruin a person, or a group of people.

A fair and dispassionate presentation to a Grand Jury, would have saved the months of heartache, illness, and legal fees to the Duke LaCrosse team.....in which Mike Nifong railroaded these boys for his own political gain.

 

[the1kidd03]

Your words are of small consequence when a prosecutor abuses his authority to ruin a person, or a group of people.

A fair and dispassionate presentation to a Grand Jury, would have saved the months of heartache, illness, and legal fees to the Duke LaCrosse team.....in which Mike Nifong railroaded these boys for his own political gain.

LOL, fitting avatar for such a discussion. "Where'd you learn that? From the internet."

 

[griffin]

They made a call in what at the time seemed to them like threatening situation.

What threatening situation?

Did they see a guy stop, get out, and approach the cop's house they were guarding?

Did they see a guy pointing a gun at them and shooting at them from the truck?

Did they see a guy accelerate at a high rate of speed directly toward them as if he were trying to run them over and kill them?

What threatening situation?

 

[the1kidd03]

What threatening situation?

Did they see a guy stop, get out, and approach the cop's house they were guarding?

Did they see a guy pointing a gun at them and shooting at them from the truck?

Did they see a guy accelerate at a high rate of speed directly toward them as if he were trying to run them over and kill them?

What threatening situation?

If you're searching for a killer who's armed and all you know is the description of the last vehicle he was driving, then a similar vehicle sneaks up on you at night to where you cannot positively identify the occupants with the lights turned out are you willing to bet your life on the thought that vehicle isn't a threat even after it ignores your verbal commands to stop?

Again, you know what I know. Which is merely enough NOT to condemn a man before ALL of the evidence is gathered and presented in appropriate fashion (ie NOT through media interpretation).