Mandated vaccines or weekly testing for employers of 100+ people.......

[ditcherman]

What is frustrating is not having the data available. I don't need opinions. Give me the data. What I want: monthly & cumulative amounts for vaccinated/not-vaccinated; monthly & cumulative amounts for vaccinated/not-vaccinated by age group. Hospitalizations & deaths by age group, v/not-v, monthly and cumulative.

I've looked in many different places and I'm not able to find the data. I don't believe that the CDC doesn't have it. With all the MD's, MBA's and PhD's running around, it is irresponsible NOT to have that data.

And THAT, (highlighted in red) is exactly why many don’t trust anything coming from them. One of just many reasons, actually.

It’s refreshing to see you admit, after all these pages, that you don’t have the data you need to make a rational decision. You can apply purple to that as needed.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

I’ve yet to see you post any statistical evidence. I do however see you preaching daily.


Like the indiucky thread yesterday. You were the first to mention Covid vaccines, and tried to paint it as majority of ingo who runs around screaming about it. Get real.

 

[KLB]

It's not 100% true: you can get J&J vaccine which isn't mRNA based.

AFAIK, both mRNA vax's require two shots; J&J is one. Is Mr. Senger over 64? If not, then no booster required.



Also, WTF would I take advice from a San Francisco lawyer? Donchaknow they **** in the street there?


EDIT: I love how he brought up tetanus. That's a really nasty disease, but unless you're digging around in barnyards... apples and ocean freighters, that's how related they are.

Talking about grasping at straws. His overall point is valid. The Covid vaccine is treated like very differently from any other vaccine. What other vaccine will companies fire you for not having? What other vaccine do you have to have to go into public areas in so many places?

 

[Hatin Since 87]

I don't see how you can say that. You would need a breakdown of vaccinated vs unvaccinated deaths in the USA. We know that Delta is more virulent. However, I haven't been able to find any statistics of recent deaths vis a vis V/not-V. The older data is as follows:


So, unless you have data that we can review, I think the data supports an efficacy rate, especially for older adults, in excess of 75% for Pfizer and over 90% for Moderna. Which makes sense if competent medical authorities believe that boosters might be indicated for adults in the >65 age group or those immunocompromised.

Net, net. Do the vaccines work? Yes, but they are not perfect.

Anyone can see the downside if they choose to focus there. If I had a buddy over 65 who refused to get the vaccine because of any of the conspiracies noted above and he had no prior illness-generated immunity, I'd be concerned for him.

Sorry, went to bed early.

I was just talking about the stats you posted. According to the statistics you posted, we have double the amount of people in the hospitals, and more deaths now with 55% vaccinated than we did when we had 0 vaccinations. Seems odd is all.


If I were over 65 I would very seriously consider the vaccine. I don’t know that I would take it, but I would definitely be more willing to consider it.

 

[Alpo]

Sorry, went to bed early.

I was just talking about the stats you posted. According to the statistics you posted, we have double the amount of people in the hospitals, and more deaths now with 55% vaccinated than we did when we had 0 vaccinations. Seems odd is all.


If I were over 65 I would very seriously consider the vaccine. I don’t know that I would take it, but I would definitely be more willing to consider it.

It all depends on your time frame of reference. Delta changed the trend lines.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

It all depends on your time frame of reference. Delta changed the trend lines.

But how do we know it’s “delta”? There’s no specific test that distinguishes delta from regular Covid, unless they specifically break down the virus and perform further testing on it.

Is there a test for the delta variant?​

There is not a specific test for the delta variant.
However, since the vast majority of COVID-19 cases in the U.S. are the delta variant, it's likely a positive test result indicates you could be infected with the delta variant, according to Human and Health Services of Texas.



It claims “since the vast majority of cases are the delta variant it’s likely a positive result indicates you’re infected with delta”


But without specifically testing every infection for delta, how can they know that majority is delta variant? It just seems like they skew data too much for me to take anything at face value.



And even if it is delta, the vaccine obviously does nothing to stop it. If there’s twice as many hospitalized now than this time last year, there’s more deaths than this time last year, what is the vaccine effective at?

 

[bmbutch]

Still looking for how many cases of Covid (2nd infection, 3rd) for those that have already had Covid?

I can’t believe they’re not tracking that.
Maybe my research skills suck, or maybe that data doesn’t fit the agenda?

 

[MCgrease08]

The delta variant might have caused a rise in hospitalizations of vaccinated people, but it might also be a case of the vaccine efficacy wearing off in a shorter time span than originally thought.

Other than telling older people to get boosters, there seems to be a lack of willingness from the CDC, media and health "experts" to have a serious discussion around how long the protection of vaccines actually lasts.

Distrust of "experts" grows when said experts aren't willing to answer what most reasonable people would consider to be legitimate questions.

 

[Keith_Indy]

Still looking for how many cases of Covid (2nd infection, 3rd) for those that have already had Covid?

I can’t believe they’re not tracking that.
Maybe my research skills suck, or maybe that data doesn’t fit the agenda?

There are studies, but it's not a statistic they are pushing...

Not going to post a bunch of links, but here is the search I used.

covid reinfection rates at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

Study Finds COVID-19 Reinfection Rate Less Than 1% for Those with Severe Illness

A review of more than 9,000 U.S. patients with severe COVID-19 infection showed less than 1% contracted the illness again, with an average reinfection time of 3.5 months after an initial positive test. Those are the findings from a study conducted by researchers from the University of Missouri...

medicine.missouri.edu

 

[Ingomike]

What is frustrating is not having the data available. I don't need opinions. Give me the data. What I want: monthly & cumulative amounts for vaccinated/not-vaccinated; monthly & cumulative amounts for vaccinated/not-vaccinated by age group. Hospitalizations & deaths by age group, v/not-v, monthly and cumulative.

I've looked in many different places and I'm not able to find the data. I don't believe that the CDC doesn't have it. With all the MD's, MBA's and PhD's running around, it is irresponsible NOT to have that data.

But with that data the people might think, and horror of horrors, might speak something TPTB don't want said.

That is where we have been since the first utterances of the c word...

 

[wtburnette]

The delta variant might have caused a rise in hospitalizations of vaccinated people, but it might also be a case of the vaccine efficacy wearing off in a shorter time span than originally thought.

Other than telling older people to get boosters, there seems to be a lack of willingness from the CDC, media and health "experts" to have a serious discussion around how long the protection of vaccines actually lasts.

Distrust of "experts" grows when said experts aren't willing to answer what most reasonable people would consider to be legitimate questions.

Not only legitimate questions, but very basic ones at that.

 

[Alpo]

I'm tired of doing the google searches. But, from what I remember, the standard tests will not determine which flavor of Covid has caused the infection. However, there has been a great deal of genomic sequencing done on Covid in Europe and Israel to establish that the Delta variant is the main viral vector for present infections. The USA has also studied the sequences and determined that Delta is also complicit in the USA and that it arrived in America from Europe, not Asia.

But how do we know it’s “delta”? There’s no specific test that distinguishes delta from regular Covid, unless they specifically break down the virus and perform further testing on it

If your approach is to only look at the possible exceptions to confirm your bias, then you are likely to be able to do so. Isn't it a waste of someone else's time to debate the point with you?

 

[Alpo]

The delta variant might have caused a rise in hospitalizations of vaccinated people, but it might also be a case of the vaccine efficacy wearing off in a shorter time span than originally thought.

Other than telling older people to get boosters, there seems to be a lack of willingness from the CDC, media and health "experts" to have a serious discussion around how long the protection of vaccines actually lasts.

Distrust of "experts" grows when said experts aren't willing to answer what most reasonable people would consider to be legitimate questions.

It is definitely frustrating.

It seems we are gifted with bureaucratic imbeciles.

 

[buckwacker]

So we got the jab or job email last week and were provided a "draft" guidance document from the Safer Federal Workforce Task Force that provides the detailed implementation of the general "provide adequate covid19 safeguards" in the EO. First I find it odd that we're implementing a vaccine mandate based on a DRAFT guidance document. I suspect the reason it is a draft document is the EO and guidance both stipulate that the "clause" to be included in federal contracts enforcing this requirement must be determined by the OMB Director to "promote economy and efficiency in federal contracting". Absent this determination, the guidance is not enforceable. Is anyone aware if this determination has been made and if so, is the rationale and supporting data available?

 

[ditcherman]

But with that data the people might think, and horror of horrors, might speak something TPTB don't want said.

That is where we have been since the first utterances of the c word...

Some of “we” have been there since the the first utterance, some of us (me, not alone) it took a little longer to see the truth.
Thank you for your patience in this matter.
Seriously, it’s nice when people of different opinions can have discussions and go away accepting or tolerant of others. I see a lot less of this acceptance coming from the brainwashed side of “trust the gov’t”.

 

[KLB]

So we got the jab or job email last week and were provided a "draft" guidance document from the Safer Federal Workforce Task Force that provides the detailed implementation of the general "provide adequate covid19 safeguards" in the EO. First I find it odd that we're implementing a vaccine mandate based on a DRAFT guidance document. I suspect the reason it is a draft document is the EO and guidance both stipulate that the "clause" to be included in federal contracts enforcing this requirement must be determined by the OMB Director to "promote economy and efficiency in federal contracting". Absent this determination, the guidance is not enforceable. Is anyone aware if this determination has been made and if so, is the rationale and supporting data available?

I doubt it. There are sure to be lawsuits for that too.

 

[JettaKnight]

Talking about grasping at straws. His overall point is valid. The Covid vaccine is treated like very differently from any other vaccine. What other vaccine will companies fire you for not having? What other vaccine do you have to have to go into public areas in so many places?
View attachment 161726

What other disease has killed 700,000 in the last two years?

To pretend the mumps or tetanus is on par with COVID is retarded.

 

[KLB]

What other disease has killed 700,000 in the last two years?

To pretend the mumps or tetanus is on par with COVID is retarded.

And here we go again.

Covid didn't kill 700,000. 700,000 died with Covid.

Does the vaccine stop you from getting the virus?

Does the vaccine stop you from transmitting the virus?

Since both are no, why would vaccinated status play any role in allowing someone access?

There is nothing about the Covid vaccines that make them any more important for determining access to facilities than any other generally accepted vaccine. Taking the specific examples mentioned over the general idea is the retarded thing.

 

[foszoe]

But how do we know it’s “delta”? There’s no specific test that distinguishes delta from regular Covid, unless they specifically break down the virus and perform further testing on it.

Is there a test for the delta variant?​

There is not a specific test for the delta variant.
However, since the vast majority of COVID-19 cases in the U.S. are the delta variant, it's likely a positive test result indicates you could be infected with the delta variant, according to Human and Health Services of Texas.



It claims “since the vast majority of cases are the delta variant it’s likely a positive result indicates you’re infected with delta”


But without specifically testing every infection for delta, how can they know that majority is delta variant? It just seems like they skew data too much for me to take anything at face value.



And even if it is delta, the vaccine obviously does nothing to stop it. If there’s twice as many hospitalized now than this time last year, there’s more deaths than this time last year, what is the vaccine effective at?

Actually the Delta variant is very easy to spot. When magnified, it looks like a faucet.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

What other disease has killed 700,000 in the last two years?

To pretend the mumps or tetanus is on par with COVID is retarded.

Why is it when people with the vaccine get Covid and die, they say we have to take into account other factors that contributed to their deaths, but when an unvaccinated person dies with Covid, it’s counted as Covid?


Furthermore, why do you claim to be against mandates, but consistently defend them and justify them?