Mandated vaccines or weekly testing for employers of 100+ people.......

[foszoe]

View attachment 157846

Non sequitur. Maybe a meme thread would be better

 

[DoggyDaddy]

So you are saying that the risk to grandma and grandpa are the same regardless of their vaccination status if you are vaccinated or they are?

Regardless of MY status. If they're vaccinated then (allegedly) their risk would be lower for hospitalization but not for contracting the illness. That's my point.

 

[foszoe]

Still curious why you didn’t call out my debate partner for not providing any evidence whatsoever?
View attachment 157847

Fair question.

Because it's the second time you have done this then not posted the underlying links.

That is different than disagreeing with you, which is where you and Alpo are.

 

[wtburnette]

That's a total misrepresentation of facts. I am and I believe Alpo is every person's status is and should be up to them.

The question is does that decision have any effect at all?

Only in that it seems that the vaccinated have a higher viral load and therefore might actually be more communicable? That's what I've heard lately. Otherwise my vax status should pretty much have no bearing on anyone else. I can catch and give the virus, just like someone who has taken the jab. Where is the difference exactly?

 

[Hatin Since 87]

We are talking to different points, methinks. I'm focused on hospitalizations and deaths: "SEVERITY" w/r/t infections after vaccinations. You seem to be thinking more globally.

Indeed. My reason for discussing the ability to become infected while vaccinated was a rebuttal to your “if you don’t get vaccinated and give it to grandma and she passes” comment. I’m just pointing out she can continue to get Covid with the vaccination, as I could still spread it to her if I’m vaccinated, now the question is will it kill her? Well, if she’s vaccinated it doesn’t matter if I give it to her when I’m vaccinated or unvaccinated. So if the vaccine works, regardless who gives it to her, she’ll be fine... right?


But, if I had the virus I wouldn’t go around grandma regardless. When this first started I stayed away for a while. Just saw her last night tho.

 

[Alpo]

Still curious why you didn’t call out my debate partner for not providing any evidence whatsoever?
View attachment 157847

Because your debate partner is a Muppet? AMI right?

 

[foszoe]

Regardless of MY status. If they're vaccinated then (allegedly) their risk would be lower for hospitalization but not for contracting the illness. That's my point.

Ok. Thank you. So now I can ask a question. Are there any studies that show one is less contagious after being vaccinated?

Isn't part of herd immunity that the vaccinated population % is higher?

That's why I have been asking the questions. I thought that vaccine rates affected herd immunity (in number of deaths).

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Ok. Thank you. So now I can ask a question. Are there any studies that show one is less contagious after being vaccinated?

Not to my knowledge. Studies HAVE shown that the vaccinated can still carry, contract and transmit the virus. See "breakout cases".

 

[foszoe]

Only in that it seems that the vaccinated have a higher viral load and therefore might actually be more communicable? That's what I've heard lately. Otherwise my vax status should pretty much have no bearing on anyone else. I can catch and give the virus, just like someone who has taken the jab. Where is the difference exactly?

See my reply to doggydaddy. What you have heard is what I would like to see evidence of

 

[Tombs]

Indeed. My reason for discussing the ability to become infected while vaccinated was a rebuttal to your “if you don’t get vaccinated and give it to grandma and she passes” comment. I’m just pointing out she can continue to get Covid with the vaccination, as I could still spread it to her if I’m vaccinated, now the question is will it kill her? Well, if she’s vaccinated it doesn’t matter if I give it to her when I’m vaccinated or unvaccinated. So if the vaccine works, regardless who gives it to her, she’ll be fine... right?


But, if I had the virus I wouldn’t go around grandma regardless. When this first started I stayed away for a while. Just saw her last night tho.

I think people are dramatically over estimating the efficacy of the vaccines, especially when they're using them in such examples.

I posted data out of the UK in the beer virus thread that anyone is welcome to go over and compare.

There's a fundamental problem with people believing this can simply be stopped with vaccines. That's because they don't realize that as soon as a vaccine is made, the next variant is already barnstorming everyone, and has far higher resistance to the vaccine than the previous strain. (It's a lot more complicated than that, but for the purpose of discussion, functionally that's what you're dealing with. It isn't evolving because of the vaccine, or becoming vaccine resistant, it's just different enough the vaccine doesn't help as much)

We need to accept that this is an endemic disease, lots of people will continue to die from it, and the best medicine we have available is simply giving you better odds. And you'll need a booster for every variant if you want to continue playing the odds, unless some medical miracle occurs. This is why I'm unreasonably angry about every possible treatment being immediately politicized, and treated as if the vaccine replaces its necessity. Because those treatments might be the only chance a significant amount of people have to live.

 

[Alpo]

Indeed. My reason for discussing the ability to become infected while vaccinated was a rebuttal to your “if you don’t get vaccinated and give it to grandma and she passes” comment. I’m just pointing out she can continue to get Covid with the vaccination, as I could still spread it to her if I’m vaccinated, now the question is will it kill her? Well, if she’s vaccinated it doesn’t matter if I give it to her when I’m vaccinated or unvaccinated. So if the vaccine works, regardless who gives it to her, she’ll be fine... right?


But, if I had the virus I wouldn’t go around grandma regardless. When this first started I stayed away for a while. Just saw her last night tho.

I will attempt to summarize my own thinking:

If you are vaccinated, your chance of getting the infection is reduced from those who do not have the vaccine. If you do get infected, your chances of survival and ability to stay out of the hospital are significantly enhanced.

Therefore, if I'm going to go meet granny and give her a big hug, my chance of infecting her when I do not present any symptoms is likely better if I had the vaccine than if I have not received the vaccination.

I also know that many people, including myself, are generally in a state of denial early in an illness. We don't take it seriously. In the case of Covid and huggin Granny, we should.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Because your debate partner is a Muppet? AMI right?

 

[foszoe]

Not to my knowledge. Studies HAVE shown that the vaccinated can still carry, contract and transmit the virus. See "breakout cases".

Never denied that. In fact that's exactly why I'm am asking if the vaccination of all parties in the room matters

 

[foszoe]

I think people are dramatically over estimating the efficacy of the vaccines, especially when they're using them in such examples.

I posted data out of the UK in the beer virus thread that anyone is welcome to go over and compare.

There's a fundamental problem with people believing this can simply be stopped with vaccines. That's because they don't realize that as soon as a vaccine is made, the next variant is already barnstorming everyone, and has far higher resistance to the vaccine than the previous strain. (It's a lot more complicated than that, but for the purpose of discussion, functionally that's what you're dealing with. It isn't evolving because of the vaccine, or becoming vaccine resistant, it's just different enough the vaccine doesn't help as much)

We need to accept that this is an endemic disease, lots of people will continue to die from it, and the best medicine we have available is simply giving you better odds. And you'll need a booster for every variant if you want to continue playing the odds, unless some medical miracle occurs. This is why I'm unreasonably angry about every possible treatment being immediately politicized, and treated as if the vaccine replaces its necessity. Because those treatments might be the only chance a significant amount of people have to live.

You are setting up a straw man.
I haven't heard anyone say this is simply a matter of vaccines

 

[Hatin Since 87]

I will attempt to summarize my own thinking:

If you are vaccinated, your chance of getting the infection is reduced from those who do not have the vaccine. If you do get infected, your chances of survival and ability to stay out of the hospital are significantly enhanced.

Therefore, if I'm going to go meet granny and give her a big hug, my chance of infecting her when I do not present any symptoms is likely better if I had the vaccine than if I have not received the vaccination.

I also know that many people, including myself, are generally in a state of denial early in an illness. We don't take it seriously. In the case of Covid and huggin Granny, we should.

Understood. My thinking is if granny is vaccinated, and her chances of catching Covid are decreased, and her chance of survival and ability to stay out of the hospital are greatly enhanced, then it shouldn’t be a big deal. Especially considering if I feel sick I wouldn’t go around my grandma, even before Covid... also, you have to consider my chance of becoming infected in the first place.


So the odds of me being infected, then the odds of me passing that infection to my grandmother. At my age, I’d be more worried about long term side effects of the vaccine than the odds of getting the virus, passing the virus to grandma who is vaccinated, and her dying from it.


Granny does not approve of being used as a pawn

 

[Tombs]

You are setting up a straw man.
I haven't heard anyone say this is simply a matter of vaccines

I'm not really sure it's fair to say that is a straw man. Every single non-vaccine treatment has been politicized to the ends of the earth, and treated as if it's snake oil for idiots.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Fair question.

Because it's the second time you have done this then not posted the underlying links.

That is different than disagreeing with you, which is where you and Alpo are.

I explained this before. If I post links to 6 different articles, you might, at best, click 2. If I take a screenshot of the article you have to choose to purposely ignore it. You can easily Google the article screenshotted if you wanna look it up.

 

[foszoe]

I explained this before. If I post links to 6 different articles, you might, at best, click 2. If I take a screenshot of the article you have to choose to purposely ignore it. You can easily Google the article screenshotted if you wanna look it up.

I did click 2. But where does the burden of proof lie? You make an assumption I am good with technology.

 

[foszoe]

I'm not really sure it's fair to say that is a straw man. Every single non-vaccine treatment has been politicized to the ends of the earth, and treated as if it's snake oil for idiots.

But name 1 that has said don't wear masks also.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

I did click 2. But where does the burden of proof lie? You make an assumption I am good with technology.

I provided proof. A screenshot of an article. If you wanna fact check the screenshot go for it. If you wanna fact check a link go for it.


If you’re able to get on ingo and sign in, you’re able to Google an article.