Man seen with a hose nozzle, shot without warning by police

[Zoub]

If visual contact was established the officers could easily have seen that he was not an "active shooter".

Easier said then done in that area.

Last time I was there for a visit, I walked right up on a crime in progress, I was armed with an ice cream cone. My unarmed relatives whose house was being robbed (bike off front porch) were useless to me. Same time of day as this shooting, plenty of sun. Unless you are in the middle of the street or alley, you don't see anyone coming, going or hiding. This is not some typical Indiana Hood or town.

Long Beach is very, very cramped, with all space being used for housing. There was only way to approach that guy and he saw them coming. Cops are forced to walk into those situations.

If you make the choice to be a drunk in public with a hose nozzle, you live or die with the end result. Long Beach is a LOT safer now, then in my youth.

 

[navarre1095]

Wouldn't a simple "Drop the gun mother humper or I will shoot you." have sufficed?

 

[rambone]

If you make the choice to be a drunk in public with a hose nozzle, you live or die with the end result.

He was on private property, with permission of the owner.

Know what else? He was doing the responsible thing by not driving. He was waiting for a ride.

If visual contact was established the officers could easily have seen that he was not an "active shooter". Where was the need to send a force of officers sneaking up on him instead of having one ready while verbal contact is made. This isn't a Call of Duty video game.

Everybody acted on their assumptions. They thought they were about to partake in the next North Hollywood shootout. They ordered an airstrike, and pulled out the shotties, bunny-hopped around the corner and took out that n00b camper.

 

[clgustaveson]

He was on private property, with permission of the owner.

Know what else? He was doing the responsible thing by not driving. He was waiting for a ride.




Everybody acted on their assumptions. They thought they were about to partake in the next North Hollywood shootout. They ordered an airstrike, and pulled out the shotties, bunny-hopped around the corner and took out that n00b camper.

Transcript:

911 Operator: "Long Beach 911, what is the problem?"
Caller: "There's a guy in my backyard just sitting on the porch and he's got a gun in his hand."
911 Operator: "Do you actually see a gun?"
Caller: "Yes I do. It looks like a little tiny six shooter or something like that."

 

[clgustaveson]

Did they get the wrong guy??

Who called 911? That person should be held responsible.

 

[squirrelhntr]

maybe the police should just have rubber bullets ???? Then send the guy to some A.A. meetings.

 

[rambone]

Transcript:

911 Operator: "Long Beach 911, what is the problem?"
Caller: "There's a guy in my backyard just sitting on the porch and he's got a gun in his hand."
911 Operator: "Do you actually see a gun?"
Caller: "Yes I do. It looks like a little tiny six shooter or something like that."

Yeah, they went off this bedwetter's phone call and made a whole lot of false assumptions. He didn't have a gun, and he wasn't trespassing. The caller was wrong. Maybe some actual police-work could have cleared up this whole mess.

This incident tells me that if you've got an enemy, you can just call the police on him when he's doing something innocuous an report that he's got a gun.

Did they get the wrong guy??

Who called 911? That person should be held responsible.

The next door neighbor is responsible? I don't think so. He's an ignorant, untrained sheep. The cops need a better call screener if anything.

The facts seem to all be saying that the cops purposely hid from the guy for a duration of time, intentionally avoiding contact with him. Its hard to surrender when you don't know you are being hunted.

 

[dholmtime]

I agree two handed grip usually means business. Noone uses a two handed grip on the hose, so I would most likely take the shot also. As gun carrying Americans we know suspicious situations like that are to avoided for everyones safety.

 

[public servant]

Yeah, they went off this bedwetter's phone call and made a whole lot of false assumptions. He didn't have a gun, and he wasn't trespassing. The caller was wrong. Maybe some actual police-work could have cleared up this whole mess.

This incident tells me that if you've got an enemy, you can just call the police on him when he's doing something innocuous an report that he's got a gun.



The next door neighbor is responsible? I don't think so. He's an ignorant, untrained sheep. The cops need a better call screener if anything.

The facts seem to all be saying that the cops purposely hid from the guy for a duration of time, intentionally avoiding contact with him. Its hard to surrender when you don't know you are being hunted.

As long a everyone else is responsible...does the drunken dumbass share any of the responsibility in his own demise?

 

[rambone]

I agree two handed grip usually means business. Noone uses a two handed grip on the hose, so I would most likely take the shot also. As gun carrying Americans we know suspicious situations like that are to avoided for everyones safety.

The two handed grip =

The genius who called in the helicopter for a routine call is covering his @ss.

 

[clgustaveson]

Yeah, they went off this bedwetter's phone call and made a whole lot of false assumptions. He didn't have a gun, and he wasn't trespassing. The caller was wrong. Maybe some actual police-work could have cleared up this whole mess.

This incident tells me that if you've got an enemy, you can just call the police on him when he's doing something innocuous an report that he's got a gun.



The next door neighbor is responsible? I don't think so. He's an ignorant, untrained sheep. The cops need a better call screener if anything.

The facts seem to all be saying that the cops purposely hid from the guy for a duration of time, intentionally avoiding contact with him. Its hard to surrender when you don't know you are being hunted.

The man on the phone said he saw the gun and the man with the gun was on his back stoop.

According the witness reports I read, the police were there for a very brief period of time, and called for the "support" when they saw him. The officers were avoiding contact with an armed man that was aparently waving the firearm in their direction.

There would be no reason for the officers to remove themselves from cover and risk their lives just to make sure the man "did" have a gun.

There just wasn't enough time and space for SOP to be carried out. Call screening isn't even a factor. The dispatcher asked "Did you see the gun" the response "Yes" what else do you want? Clearly the caller lied and made the situation something it wasn't. "On MY back steps"

The police were responding to a potential threat, they responded as they should. Unfortunately there simply was not enough time for the situation to be evaluated and better steps to be taken.

When someone is waiving around, what appears to police and witnesses to be a gun, its probably not smart to start yelling. The man was in a crowded apartment complex and was wandering from stoop to stoop according to witnesses. If that had been a gun, and there was a drunk man wandering aimlessly in a crowded apartment complex with an unholstered gun, we would be having a different conversation. Just because it was a "nozzle" doesn't change the scenario. It was more than just one person that thought it was a gun.

IMO the fault rests with the lying witness that said he "saw the gun".

 

[clgustaveson]

The two handed grip =

The genius who called in the helicopter for a routine call is covering his @ss.

Wait!!! How is a "MAN WITH A GUN ON MY BACK PORCH SAVE ME" routine?

 

[clgustaveson]

As long a everyone else is responsible...does the drunken dumbass share any of the responsibility in his own demise?

Hecks no, you cant be responsible for what you do drunk...

 

[elaw555]

Clearly the caller lied and made the situation something it wasn't. "On MY back steps"

Just realized the same thing. Can the caller be prosecuted for this?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

As long a everyone else is responsible...does the drunken dumbass share any of the responsibility in his own demise?

Depends on how California does comparative fault. I could see a jury finding 33% plus his fault.

It really depends on the jury seated. I mean I think we've all done stupid things with our buddies, drunk or sober. Maybe the decedent thought his buddy was creeping up behind him. Maybe he meant to get himself shot dead.

We'll wait and see, but I don't think this will go past depositions before his estate takes a check and leaves.

 

[CampingJosh]

Hecks no, you cant be responsible for what you do drunk...

Was this supposed to be in purple? Because I know you're not serious.

People are responsible for their actions. His choice to consume mind-altering substances does not give him a free pass to make bad decisions.

Is "I was drunk" a valid defense for murder, rape, arson, vandalism, or anything? Of course not.

 

[Dredd]

we need personal responsbility in our actions, and this one is the falls on the head of the perp. He wants to play with guns in public and scare people then what does he expect. dont drink and you will go farther in life

 

[public servant]

Just realized the same thing. Can the caller be prosecuted for this?

I haven't re-read the articles again. Perhaps the guy did start out on the caller's porch? I'm really not sure.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Just realized the same thing. Can the caller be prosecuted for this?

Unlikely. The prosecution usually (don't know California law) has to show that the caller would knew that the information was false.

Look at Indiana's statute on 35-44-2-2(d):

(d) A person who:
(1) gives a false report of the commission of a crime or gives false information in the official investigation of the commission of a crime, knowing the report or information to be false;

Maybe the caller had a bad angle (as described earlier, Long Beach, especially near the water is very constricted, people live on top of each other, like rabbit hutches)? Maybe the caller had an honest mistake and did not think about his words? Maybe the guy moved?

 

[Zoub]

He was on private property, with permission of the owner.

Know what else? He was doing the responsible thing by not driving. He was waiting for a ride.

Yeah, that is what everyone during the LA riots was also doing that day in Long Beach, waiting for a ride. Because everyone on foot is responsible and never breaks a law.

He walked there drunk. He didn't just magically appear on his friends porch. What did he do between the bar and porch? Obviously he got the attention of a few people. like I said I know the area WELL.

Likely he had already broken laws, like public intoxication and stealing the damn hose nozzle. If not, why did he carry a pistol like hose nozzle to and from the bar, in Long Beach noless? Do you really beleive he carried it and owned it? I know you tend to be myopic in your views and anti-establishment sentiment but you are are not able to think the whole situation through. You defend a dead drunk.

You WANT it to be "man shot while sitting on a porch and minding his own business" but it is not that.

You go strolling down 2nd St. with a "gun" then head on down to Ocean Blvd. See what happens next, but I suggest you do it sober. At that point you are putting yourself in the hands of the system and Cops who do not know you.

Maybe Dad's should spend the day sober with their 8 year olds instead of walking the streets drunk? I bet his family wishes he had done just that. Yeah, the cops used shotguns.