Man removed by PD for carrying at St. Joe County polls

[protias]

I saw a picture of one of the deputies at the scene of the crime. He's an experienced and good cop, who is 2A supportive, a veteran, and has laid his life on the line within the community during at least one shootout. While I don't like what has happened in this case and it shouldn't have happened I'm sure he was acting in good faith.

As far as this case goes, I don't think any criminal findings are going to result in charges, much less convictions. For one, the county prosecutor will decide there was no criminal intent and not file them. The civil side will result in a settlement with a non-disclosure agreement. I suspect that this agreement will require an educational component about Indiana gun laws regarding the LTCH for election officials and local law enforcement in addition to some financial compensation.

I appreciate and support the efforts of Clay and Guy in this case.

This doesn't have to be done through the county. It can easily be done through the state or federal court.

Ignorance is no excuse that is exactly what you and I would hear if we as the little people on the criminal side of this. Cops are paid to enforce the law therefore should know the law and should be held to a higher standard. My wife is an RN and is held to a higher standard and I am a licensed electrician and I am held to a higher standard.

I always find it "interesting" how if a non-LEO does something wrong, they get crucified, but if a LEO does something wrong, they get a pass. I'm sick of double standards!

 

[DownByTheTracks]

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St.Joseph County Police Officer T. Vanoverbergh (who is also reportedly employed bythe St. Joseph County Fire Department and/or the Warren Township FireDepartment) approached Petitioner and informed him that he “could not have agun in the building.” Petitioner inquired as to the authority thatOfficer Vanoverbergh was relying upon to make that statement. Officer Vanoverberghrespondedwith various and conflicting answers, including: a) “It’s against my policy because I’m incharge here;” b) “It’s against Warren Township policy to havea gun in a fire station;” c) “Federal law prohibits guns in pollingplaces;” d) “It’s illegal to ‘opencarry’ in Indiana;” e) “State law prohibitsguns in fire stations;” and f) “State law prohibits guns at polling places.”

Officer Vanoverbergh then orderedPetitioner to leave the polling station and Petitioner complied by walkingoutside the building. Petitionerrequested Officer Vanoverbergh to call a supervisor. Officer Vanoverbergh then informed Petitionerthat other members of the St. Joseph County Police Department were already inroute to the polling station at the request of Officer Vanoverbergh.

Thereafter, St. Joseph County PoliceOfficer Banicki arrived and informed Petitioner that the reasons that OfficerVanoverbergh had refused to allow Petitioner to vote were valid and that Petitionercould not vote while in possession of a firearm. Officer Banicki also informed Petitioner thatif Petitioner persisted in his attempts to vote without relinquishing hisfirearm, Banicki would “revoke your permit on the spot, confiscate your handgunand force you to appeal that decision in Indianapolis.”
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[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfwz1Avkd90&feature=related[/ame]

 

[Pitmaster]

This doesn't have to be done through the county. It can easily be done through the state or federal court.


I always find it "interesting" how if a non-LEO does something wrong, they get crucified, but if a LEO does something wrong, they get a pass. I'm sick of double standards!

/
Way more lawbreakers get a pass than police officers when you consider the violations each h is caught. You might be surprised at the write up s and suspensions and internal affairs issues because some thug cries police brutality or racism. A local cop here was suspended for writing down the quote a an arrested on the incident form. The arrested used "N***** " and the cop was suspended for using it in the rreport.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

This doesn't have to be done through the county. It can easily be done through the state or federal court.

I am completely lost. What state court?

Are you thinking that there are county, state and federal courts???

 

[prowland]

WOW...

 

[griffin]

I'm don't think anyone involved had a clue they were committing such serious crimes by the actions that day.

I don't buy that for one second. Every election voting rights get brought up, and it is big, big news. Everything from voter ID to registration to who is at the polls (police intimidate black people). Voter rights and disenfranchisement are in the forefront every election. There is no way in heck anyone with two brain cells to rub together had no idea voter disenfranchisement was seriously illegal. Especially law enforcement or election workers!

 

[williamrights]

I have kept up with this story from the beggining. To all those that say hey how can the cops keep up with the laws. It is their job. One interesting side note. What if it was just a group of citizens that barred him. Would they not be liable for the same class D felony. I am sure no one here would excuse them so I am basically tired of all the people here and commenting on the story elsewhere trying to give these officers a pass. And here is where I get radical. The person saying the one officer is pro gun and pro second amendment here is my reply. Call me a troll if you want but. It is like a the Nazi gaurds at auschwitz claiming I was just doing my job I was ordered after all I am normally nice to Jews. This pro 2nd amendment cop should have stepped up and said let him vote it is his right he gave in to peer pressure of his fellow cops. It is like everyone I hear in a gun debate that says "I am pro second amendment.....but".
It is always the same but you have to understand but this law is reasonable but I can understand this instance of cops violating his rights but why would they carry there but why do you need that type of gun but why but why but why but why but why but why but why but why but why but why but why. I am on a side note going to South Bend and had these plans for awhile today and am going to open carry bigger than anything all over the place just because I can. I am going to make a statement. Also to the person about be young a new carrier and out to make a point. I am 36 have had a license since I was 19 and usually carry concealed but in the summer in shorts it is difficult and I refuse to have to wear an overshirt.

 

[KG1]

I don't buy that for one second. Every election voting rights get brought up, and it is big, big news. Everything from voter ID to registration to who is at the polls (police intimidate black people). Voter rights and disenfranchisement are in the forefront every election. There is no way in heck anyone with two brain cells to rub together had no idea voter disenfranchisement was seriously illegal. Especially law enforcement or election workers!

I'm in agreement with this and made a similar comment earlier.

I don't buy it either that they were'nt aware that there were some serious civil rights issues involved here. Not just with voter disenfranchisement but also the 2A right to legally carry.

The Asst. Fire chief/ LEO that started this whole debacle even stated that he acknowledges the right to carry, even OC.

 

[gyeakle]

I am sure the guy had it so everyone could see it . Alot of people wants everyone to know they have it. i carried mine in and didnt have any problems

 

[Ted]

If criminal action isn't realized at the state level, and I believe that it will not, it will likely not to occur under federal color of law statutes either. Though rest assured, if it were a white Republican that denied a vote to a black man, heads would roll.

The closest justice will occur, is in the same manner that the SPLC uses to go after the KKK: Take them for every cent they have.

 

[KLB]

I am sure the guy had it so everyone could see it . Alot of people wants everyone to know they have it. i carried mine in and didnt have any problems

What is your point? It is not against the law to openly carry a weapon, end of discussion.

 

[lashicoN]

I am sure the guy had it so everyone could see it . Alot of people wants everyone to know they have it. i carried mine in and didnt have any problems

You are sure of that? How so? Why did you go out in public to vote on election day? Why note vote absentee? Did you just want to show off the fact that you live in a supposedly free country and supposedly have rights as a result? I am sure you went out in public, openly displaying your right to cast a vote, just to show it off for everyone to see. This can surely be the only reason you would have done this. A lot of people want everyone to know they vote. I bet you are one of those OVers who even wears one of those IN-YOUR-FACE "I Voted" badges!

The reality of human nature is...if you do not see it, it does not exist. People who open carry remind our masters and our fellow slaves that, for the time being, we still have a few rights. We have the right to defend our lives. Without that reminder, orders are issued, laws are passed, etc., that infringe on our rights. Before you know it, you have to walk through a body scanner to vote, because no one remembers or cares that we have the right to defend our precious lives with the most efficient tool for the job, a firearm. Your concealment won't matter. If we allow the "public servants" to operate under the impression that we can't bring a gun into a polling place, then we can't bring a gun into a polling place. I guarantee that there will then be signs prohibiting the carry of "weapons", followed by a guard with a wand, followed by a body scanner as the State expands its power at the expense of our liberty.

So, if you carry a firearm, and enjoy your RIGHT to vote while carrying, then next time you comment, perhaps you should thank this guy and this other Guy for doing what they are doing, because without Americans like them, you won't be legally carrying for long.

 

[ATM]

...Alot of people wants everyone to know they have it...

Criminals tend to avoid armed citizens. Why would I hide it?

 

[KG1]

I am sure the guy had it so everyone could see it . Alot of people wants everyone to know they have it. i carried mine in and didnt have any problems

Or... howbout this?...He carried the same way he carries everywhere it is legal to do so on any given day and he just went there with the intention of exercising his right to vote the same way you did.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Or... howbout this?...He carried the same way he carries everywhere it is legal to do so on any given day and he just went there with the intention of exercising his right to vote the same way you did.

This.

Why do people think OCers or even gun carriers in general pick and choose where they carry? MOST just carry everywhere they can.

 

[MagicKev]

I am sure the guy had it so everyone could see it . Alot of people wants everyone to know they have it. i carried mine in and didnt have any problems

For lack of neg rep capabilities I'll just say this:

FAIL

 

[PeaShooter]

Why do you think that people think that polling places are so special that they should prohibit firearm possession? It is not like they are teeming with 5yr old girls that could disarm you in the blink of an eye.

 

[theweakerbrother]

Negative effect? Clay swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. He is simply honoring that oath, and I have every confidence that the United States military will recognize that.

Guy

+1

Foreign and domestic. This one just happens to be domestic. Protecting your 2nd Amendment right and the rights of others to do the same is being an Oath Keeper.

 

[Expat]

I am sure the guy had it so everyone could see it . Alot of people wants everyone to know they have it. i carried mine in and didnt have any problems

 

[theweakerbrother]

Agreed. This is why we need negative rep back.