Man removed by PD for carrying at St. Joe County polls

[KG1]

"Vanoverberghe, who admits to understanding Edinger’s legal right to bear arms and even carry it openly, cannot come to grips for Clay’s reason for refusing to simply take it off and go vote.

What I can't come to grips with is if he acknowledged Edinger's right to carry, even openly, then why in heaven's name did he create all this firestorm in the first place?

He's got alot of nerve when he talks about rights and then turns around and does what he did. He is a joke and a menace to the Constitution.

 

[mrortega]

seems to follow you, doesn't it?

I never did get an answer to whether Frosty got an invitation to the Evansville FOP Christmas party last year. He "met" so many officers he could probably walk in and he'd look normal surrounded by cops.

 

[mrortega]

WNDU-TV reported it was wrong to carry a gun into a place where it get very "heated" like a polling place. I don't recall any diturbances at the polls around here, or anywhere for that matter, or any heated confrontations that made the news (let's not count the NBPP in Philly).

Well, you might need it to get past all the people trying to stuff paper for their candidate into your hands as you walk in.

 

[MrsGungho]

Except for the ones that violate the trust and brotherhood of the Marines and are Other Than Honorably discharged or dishonorably discharged. But that goes for soldiers, sailors, and airmen as well.

I can't think of a better poster "child" (not meant to be derogatory) for this lawsuit. An honorable Marine and Family Man. This can go a long way to educate the sheeple and the goversheep.

touche' and thank you for the correction

I agree, This Marine is the perfect candidate for this. Everything I have been able to dig up all appears as if he caused no scene, just politely refused to disarm before entering a public place to vote.

I listened to the WNDU story on their webpage and without going back to it, I believe they did say it was illegal to carry a gun there.

 

[Mr. Habib]

What really concerns me about this whole situation is that the LEO confronted someone for doing something that he didn't like without knowledge or reasonable suspicion of a crime. Then he, along with the city clerk, election board, the election board's attorney, and the ISP spent an hour and a half looking for something to charge him with. When did we get the point where the police go out and arrest people and then spend this much time and effort trying to find something that they did that was illegal with out any RAS or PC?

 

[TTravis]

That deserves a repeat.

(but yea when its over (and only when its over) I wonder if we will find out its an ingo member or not.)

If I find out who he is, and he is in my area, I would be happy to buy him a steak dinner.

 

[blamecharles]

What really concerns me about this whole situation is that the LEO confronted someone for doing something that he didn't like without knowledge or reasonable suspicion of a crime. Then he, along with the city clerk, election board, the election board's attorney, and the ISP spent an hour and a half looking for something to charge him with. When did we get the point where the police go out and arrest people and then spend this much time and effort trying to find something that they did that was illegal with out any RAS or PC?

What i have been told is carrying a firearm open is reasonable suspension that you are carrying illegally, once the LTCH is shown then you are legal.

 

[Roadie]

Sorry to say that I see this differently. I watched the newscast, and I agree that the media went way overboard on this, but...

The Clown, and I mean this in every sense, went to the poll with his gun on display and was well aware that the open carry would cause an issue.
Me? I went to my polling place too, and I was carrying also. But mine was concealed...I voted and left.
I maintain that those who carry openly are attention seekers. Maybe they don't get enough attention at home.
It has been my experience that those who most often carry openly are the newly licensed youngsters who want to strut and show off and say to the world, "Hey...Look at me! I have a gun on my belt and I want you to see it!"

They are silly fools. Immature.

Your post MIGHT have some value in this discussion, if you had not resorted to stereotyping/insulting a good portion of this Board's membership.

One can see by your low number of posts compared to your actual time as a member, that you haven't really participated much here, and have not noticed there are other threads for OC/CC debate. Allow me to direct you to one of those instead of thread jacking this one..

k thx bye

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I just got off the phone with Clay. We talked for over 40 minutes and I ABSOLUTELY stand by my previous remarks. He is the most polite, well mannered man you could imagine. He is attending seminary currently and will be leaving shortly to train for his new role as a Naval Chaplain.

I will say it again, we could not ask for a better representative for our Rights in this state and I am honored to know him.

God Bless you Clay!

 

[rvb]

"Vanoverberghe, who admits to understanding Edinger’s legal right to bear arms and even carry it openly, cannot come to grips for Clay’s reason for refusing to simply take it off and go vote. "

Now thats the kicker right there... Why don't you just give up your rights to do some other action.

[devil's advocate] But you do give up some 1st amendment rights w/in a certain distance of a polling place. [/devil's advocate]

of course, there are laws against literature, campaigning, etc too close or in a polling place. No laws against carrying a firearm. But how you shape that arguement makes a difference. This is why there are lawyers.....

-rvb

 

[Timjoebillybob]

OC event at the fire department pancake breakfast May 20?

Why the purple? I've OCed the passed two years at my local one, and plan on doing it again this year. They wouldn't mind an OC event I don't think, they want the money.

 

[cobber]

What i have been told is carrying a firearm open is reasonable suspension that you are carrying illegally, once the LTCH is shown then you are legal.

Since bearing arms is a constitutional right, that would mean that a person apparently exercising their constitutional rights by simply walking about while armed would cause a reasonable person to believe a crime was afoot. Which makes no sense.

Maybe a person running out of a bank with a bag of cash while the alarm is going off, and coincidentally is carrying a smoking gun, might give reasonable suspicion. But based on more facts than that the person was carrying a gun.

 

[JettaKnight]

One can see by your low number of posts compared to your actual time as a member, that you haven't really participated much here, and have not noticed there are other threads for OC/CC debate. Allow me to direct you to one of those instead of thread jacking this one..

Oh, indeed Unit has been actively posting in the OC/CC debate - he just brought it over here - and with poor taste I might say.

 

[Mr. Habib]

What i have been told is carrying a firearm open is reasonable suspension that you are carrying illegally, once the LTCH is shown then you are legal.

Exactly right. Had the officer stopped him and ask to see his LTCH that would have been just fine. However, they didn't do that. They, apparently, didn't even care if he was carrying legally when this all started.

 

[figley]

WNDU-TV reported it was wrong to carry a gun into a place where it get very "heated" like a polling place. I don't recall any diturbances at the polls around here, or anywhere for that matter, or any heated confrontations that made the news (let's not count the NBPP in Philly).

This is quite a commentary on how we are failing our duties of civic education. People who vote, are doing so precisely because they are averse to violence. The ballot box is the alternative to violence.

"Politics is war without bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."
Mao Zedong, "On Protracted War" (May 1938)

 

[DownByTheTracks]

Why the purple? I've OCed the passed two years at my local one, and plan on doing it again this year. They wouldn't mind an OC event I don't think, they want the money.

I wouldn't want the assistant chief's police instincts to kick in and call the SWAT team.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Since bearing arms is a constitutional right, that would mean that a person apparently exercising their constitutional rights by simply walking about while armed would cause a reasonable person to believe a crime was afoot. Which makes no sense.

Maybe a person running out of a bank with a bag of cash while the alarm is going off, and coincidentally is carrying a smoking gun, might give reasonable suspicion. But based on more facts than that the person was carrying a gun.

Charles is talking about state law. At this juncture it is Illegal to carry a handgun in Indiana. We have LTCH exempting us from the misdemeanor charge of carrying without a license. Semantics I know but semantics are what our legal system is based on.

Exactly right. Had the officer stopped him and ask to see his LTCH that would have been just fine. However, they didn't do that. They, apparently, didn't even care if he was carrying legally when this all started.

There is way more to the story than that. It is best not to put words in the mouths of anyone that was there.

 

[JettaKnight]

[devil's advocate] But you do give up some 1st amendment rights w/in a certain distance of a polling place. [/devil's advocate]

of course, there are laws against literature, campaigning, etc too close or in a polling place. No laws against carrying a firearm. But how you shape that arguement makes a difference. This is why there are lawyers.....

-rvb

Easy - Openly promoting a candidate within the polling place is an effort to influence others. Openly carrying a firearm does influence voters, nor does infringe on the right to vote of any voter.

[begin opinion]
Ignoring all Constitutional theory, what happened was a poll worker didn't like guns, passes on a bogus law and the LEO enforces this bogus law. Didn't he read what he was trying to enforce? Could he not interpret it correctly? The way I imagine it is a younger LEO is stuck with a mob versus a man and sided with the mob (incl. a possibly older, wiser authority figure (the fire captain) and he convinced himself was a grey area of the law and he was doing the right thing and obeying orders and/or the law. Because, hey, who gets hurt if I kick this guy out of the polling place? The answer will arrive shortly.

Expect poll workers to have to watch the film strip "Bob and His Gun Goes to Vote." (Bong! - for those that remember film strips)

 

[theweakerbrother]

Ahhh, Conspiracy to Violate Civil Rights. The number of defendants in the criminal and civil proceedings will likely read like the South Bend phone book.

I really don't think the government (police, firefighters, clerk, state police, et al) realize how bad they just screwed up.

I bet they did, prove that they did it with malicious intent and maybe it will hurt more.

 

[infiremedic07]

We have been all too quick to give up our rights for too many things. Unwarranted searches and seizures to fly on an airplane being one of the biggest. Look at how we have gone to guilty until proven innocent all in the name of "safety". We subject 4 year olds to darn near strip searches because of the lack of common sense and the lowest paid employee who is on an ego trip. (not meant to demean any one at the TSA)

While reading another thread I realized that while not meaning to demean a TSA official I may have anyway. I understand that we do not have to fly, and I personally have flown multiple times and never had any trouble getting through the check points, especially here at INDY, some have though. I respect the people that work there to ensure our safety but I just want to know how much of our freedoms are we willing to sacrifice to feel safe.