Again, I don't think you object to the fact that force will be used to enforce the law, really. The same force backs the tax collection used for the government programs you agree with as well. Surely you think it is necessary to collect taxes by force to pay for the military. I'm sure you'll feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
<Sigh> There is this subject called "reading." I commend it to you.
Use of force to perform legitimate functions of government is one thing. Use of force to take my money and give it to someone else for anything other then as payment for services rendered toward those legitimate functions is a whole other ballgame.
Or are you saying that if use of force is ever justified it is always justified?
There are two parts to the NFA rules: the tax and the background check. It's important to the government that NFA items remain in the hands of hobbyists and/or sane non-criminals. The Branch Davidians were neither. The law exists today to give the government a way to take particularly dangerous weapons from nutjobs. The ATF went to Waco to remove the weapons from the nutjobs.
The Branch Davidians were already gun dealers. They had already passed background checks just as thorough as that required for NFA arms. As for the rest, well, it's pretty clear that you've bought into the post Waco propaganda campaign.
I'd be completely with you on removing the huge taxes on NFA items, but I'm not interested in convicted felons owning machine guns or DDs. I'd rather see most AOWs, SBRs, and SBSs removed from the list of NFA items, but that's a whole different discussion.
The problem is that the NFA does nothing to stop convicted felons from getting them if they want them.
My point is that nobody wants to use force, but all law is eventually predicated on the use of force, and this is not particularly true for the tax code. I'm assuming you aren't against the law, or even large parts of the tax code, so this really couldn't be your point.
Yes, all law is essentially force. That's why you should be extremely careful about what you do using force of law. When you make something a law (and government programs are, by definition, law) you are using force to impose your will on others.
The bar for justifying that use of force should be a lot harder than it actually is.
It has been true in my experience.
Then so much the worse for your experience.
There are certainly people with this attitude. There are those who are out to "get theirs". They are the exception, and not the rule. As long as you have social systems, you'll have free riders. There are people driving electric cars who don't pay the road tax through buying gas. There are people who never report their tips as income. There are all kind of things. This isn't proof that we shouldn't have a system for those who truly need it. It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater in the extreme.
Um, no. The people with the victim mentality I am talking about are "leaders" such as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and politicians like Pelosi who say, in essence, that folk cannot succeed on their own and need the government handout to get by.
Do you really think it's just coincidence that the underclass (and before you start screaming that's a "term of art" in sociology--look it up) has grown dramatically since the passage of things like Johnson's "Great society" programs.
Tell people they need a handout to survive. Tell them your party is the one keeping them alive and that the other party wants them to starve. Who do you think those people who bought into and became dependent on that handout are going to vote for? Then grow the number of people who are in that dependent class. You honestly cannot see the inherent cynicism in that system?
The Great Society programs were mostly good. The Civil Rights acts were very good on the whole. The jobs programs, and programs to assist the poor into college or getting them jobs were good, and have almost certainly paid for themselves in the form of increased tax revenue. Federal programs for the encouragement of secondary education has been instrumental in creating America's legendary post-secondary education system (envy of the world). Medicare and Medicaid have created a country where the blind do not any longer roam the streets in want of money. The old do not suffer so much from the tyranny of declining health. Cars are safer. Credit card companies have to tell you the whole story of the cost of credit. The environment is cared for in many ways it was not before.
You really have drunk the . None of those claims are supported by actual facts. Just a few points: Our post secondary education system is as good as it is despite, rather than because of, our primary and secondary education systems. I've been on Medicaid and if you think multi month waits to get in to see a doctor are a good thing, have I got a deal for you--cash only, please in small bills. And the propaganda about how it was in the past completely ignores private organizations like Goodwill and the Salvation Army which provided much of the aid--from freely donated gifts--that is now provided more poorly by the government.
You are simply too young to remember what things were like before the "Great Society". Most of what you have been told about that are lies. People, by and large, are more than willing to give to help out the poor. At least the deserving poor. (Check out the play "Carousel" sometime. It has an interesting take on attitudes of a bygone day.)
The Great Society had nothing to do with helping the poor. I'm one of those who is old enough (albeit barely) to remember what things were like before this so-called "Great Society" and how things have actually gotten worse in just about every metric since then.
The Great Society, despite all the propaganda presented in its support, was not and is not about helping the poor. It is nothing more than a power grab by folk who believe in government control in more and more (eventually all) aspects of our lives.
I'm not too happy about the cultural spending in the programs. There are many parts of it that are far from perfect, but it was a good program for the most part.
If by "good program" you mean "taking more control of people's lives, creating a permanent underclass, and otherwise making things worse than they were before" then I suppose.
There's a line I heard many years ago that has stuck with me: a liberal counts "compassion" by how many people get government assistance; a conservative, by how many people no longer need it.
Despite what the propagandists would have you believe, people were not starving in the streets before the Great Society. Even during the Great Depression people may have had to go to "soup kitchens" to eat, but the soup kitchens (privately run, not government run) were there.
Now, some folk claim that going to soup kitchens to eat was demeaning, but, seriously, getting ones food from donations freely offered or from "donations" extracted by threat of force, which is really more demeaning?
Ensuring the general welfare is a legitimate government function. What it is, usually, is giving out rods. The government can't make you want to learn to fish, but it can feed you while you figure it out for yourself. It can also feed you when there aren't any fish in the sea, or when you are too old to operate the oars.
Um, no. First off, the term "general welfare" appears in two places in the Constitution. First place is in the Preamble and grants no powers. Second place is in Article one under the powers granted to Congress, but note that it's in the specific part about raising taxes for the common defense and general welfare. But, as we read on farther we see that the specific powers congress is granted include raising and supporting armies, and calling out and arming the militia. Guess what, they've just defined their powers with respect to that "common defense" part of the tax raising power. So, clearly, the other powers listed in Article 1 are what is meant by "general welfare". That first part, granting the power to levy taxes for the common defense and general welfare only grants them the power to raise funds for those other enumerated powers. It does not grant power to change the English language, co-opt the word "welfare" to mean handouts to indigents, and then use the force of law to make a class permanently dependent on those handouts. Simply deciding to call something "welfare" does not make it Constitutional.
We all benefit from the social safety net's existence. It's true that most will never use it, but it is good to be prepared.
The being prepared you are defending here is the the functional equivalent of preparing by making sure you have plenty of guns to rob your neighbors so you don't go hungry. You're just having the government do it for you.
You think they don't? The top marginal tax rate is lower than it has been for most of the history of the tax. Reagan set it near where it is today.
It isn't Democrats who concern themselves with the AMT or Capital Gains or the top marginal tax rate. It is Democrats who are advocating increasing taxes on the rich. Warren Buffet pays less in taxes, proportionally, than his secretary, and he'll b the first to tell you that's wrong.
You continue to drink the . Republican tax cuts affect everybody. I am far from rich and yet, strangely enough, I've also benefited from these tax cuts. Republicans cut taxes on everybody but since "the rich" are part of "everybody" it gets spun as "tax cuts on the rich". Democrats raise taxes on everybody (well, everybody who has an income) and that gets spun as "tax the rich."
As for the Warren Buffet thing, I suspect somebody is pointing to gross, not net, income. Among the things that are the difference between those two factors is that secretary's salary.
All of these programs were tested and found to be legal at the federal level. If they weren't, they would be made to be. Ensuring the general welfare is a legitimate function of the federal government.
So much the worse for the Federal Courts then. A precedent was set with FDR's blackmail of the Supreme Court of his day to get Social Security past muster. The rest follows from that. That's one of the problems with precedent in legal cases is that bad decisions made by bad means are just as much precedent as good decisions.
I'm aware that conservatives give more to the poor freely. For one thing, they're richer.
Another canard. That the democratic party keeps making that claim doesn't make it so.
I wasn't aware I was a liberal. I mean, if you say so.
If you don't want to be thought a liberal, then maybe you should stop making liberal points, repeating liberal propaganda as holy writ, and otherwise acting as a liberal.
It's really amazing how many people out there play the "I'm not a liberal but..." while having really nothing but liberal positions (or maybe a token "conservative" position here or there). It's not amazing that they do it. It's amazing that they expect anybody to fall for it.