Man, I hate Liberals

[hornadylnl]

Tuoder,

I'm thinking that all of INGO would benefit if you take us all out to dinner tonight and pick up the tab. I've been wanting to try St. Elmos for awhile now.

 

[tuoder]

Tuoder,

I'm thinking that all of INGO would benefit if you take us all out to dinner tonight and pick up the tab. I've been wanting to try St. Elmos for awhile now.

I would if I could.

 

[Eddie]

Tuoder,

I'm thinking that all of INGO would benefit if you take us all out to dinner tonight and pick up the tab. I've been wanting to try St. Elmos for awhile now.

Better yet, if the majority of the group feels that it would benefit the group, Tuoder can buy dinner for us all once a week, whether he wants to or not. It will be fair though, because we voted on it.

 

[dburkhead]

No, I just know that there is about a 90% certainy that I'm going to be hung. There is a 90% certainy that those who will do the hanging don't have the wherewithal to make or provide the rope and tree. They are counting on me to provide the means of my own death. Imagine if you will having to provide the firing squad with the guns and ammo with which they will kill you. The likelihood of them being competent enough to prodide the guns and ammo is nil.

So instead of hanging they'll beat you to death with bricks. One doesn't have to be much of a "producer" to kill. It's always easier to destroy than to build.

If they're going to kill you then it doesn't matter what you do to "remove the means" because they will always have means, even if it's just to trample you in the stampede.

All too often in the real world (rather than Rand's fantasy) "going Galt" reminds me of the guy in the cartoon about Texas' first criminal. He escaped the posse and hid in a cave where he could hold them off. So they stuck a sign "Jail" on the entrance to the cave.

 

[Joe Williams]

It is not done out of benevolence, but for the profit of society.

Since when is creating multiple generations of welfare slaves, who create nothing, add nothing to society, and have become so dependant that they cannot care for themselves a benefit to society?

It is a benefit to the leftist political masters who advocate it, because the one thing those slaves know they must do is keep their masters in power, lest they be forced to behave as men and women, and earn their way.

Welfare is despicable. It is theft from those who have to pay for it, and degrading to those who have sold themselves into the slavery it truly is.

 

[dburkhead]

I would if I could.

You should anyway, whether you "can" or not. I think we should vote on it. And you then have to abide by that vote regardless of whether you think you "can" or not. Hey, if you can't afford it, why then you can just quit school and get a job waiting tables somewhere. In fact, get two, they're small.

 

[Delmar]

Next we'll have people complaining about our socialized gun ranges at our socialized FWAs, competing with perfectly good private sector gun ranges and canned hunts.

Socialized public schooling, roads, police, and military, too, are evil. Why have a government-run military when we could have mercenaries and let the free market decide whose ass needs kicking?

Building roads and protecting the innocent from evildoers are just functions of the government. Public schools and the welfare state, not so much.

 

[Eddie]

Oh, I know why you're going Galt. There are really only two reasons to chose from:

1) The mistaken belief that "going Galt" actually accomplishes something to make things better.

or

2) One finds a certain schadenfreude ("joy in others' misfortune") in sitting and watching while everything goes to while doing nothing to try to avert the trainwreck.

I think there is a third reason. The government can't (in theory it can but practically it can't) tax the food that I grow/hunt for myself. If I produce more for myself then I don't have to spend my dollars on food that is taxed. This way I have a few more dollars to spend on the things that I can't produce for myself. (And yes, the other things I buy will be taxed, but my dollars stretch farther by making more of my budget untaxed.)

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Really? Seriously? Where do I sign up for this business friendly environment that the government creates? It is the one your teachers and professors lied to you about? No such thing exists, and that's one of the things you'll learn when you grow up and join the real world. Again, keep your idealism as long as you can.

Do you really know what hard life is? I grew up on the south side of Fort Wayne. 3 of my friends were killed before I graduated from high school. I watched 2 of them die from gunshot wounds. I am the only one of my friends growing up that isn't dead (obviously) and never went to jail or prison. I chose to get out of the hood and into the Marine Corps. The government did nothing for me. I served time serving this country, getting shot at on several occations while doing so.

I've gotten 3 degrees. I've paid for every one myself. When the stimulus bill was passed, I am the one who got the bill. You will learn that the only person that will make your success is you, while everyone around you will ensure you don't achieve it.

Please start questioning the lies your professors tell you. No one ever got rich relying on the government. People get rich dispite the government.

Anyway, I hope you've opened your ears and heard a different perspective and start questioning what you think is the truth. It isn't. I don't have anything else to say other than you're flat out wrong, but I'm not going to convince you of that. You will have to float on the breeze for a few years until you figure it out yourself.

I've enjoyed the conversation.

What does it say?
I think the only thing we really disagree about is the degree to which the things are under your control, and the degree to which you are assisted in what you do.

It can be difficult to see, when you are successful, why others aren't. Aren't they trying? Why can't they do better? I did!

It's complicated. Many people aren't able to generate the startup capital to being doing business, and/or can't get the credit to do so. Many have trouble getting into and staying in college because of poor public schooling. Many are unable to find good jobs in their area, nor are they able to gather the resources to move.

Most are. Most are in the same boat as you, but some aren't as fortunate, or as strong or as smart. Some try like you and fail miserably. I had some old friends form high school who started a hookah bar that failed gracefully (they had to close, but they still made a great deal of money off of the endeavor, owing no debts).

The government did help you, by creating a business friendly atmosphere. Welfare even helps you when the programs are run properly, if by no other method than by bringing in more paying customers. Your family no doubt raised you right. Many of the things you've done were mad possible by your family and community. That's all I'm saying.

 

[38special]

I would if I could.

I think you should have to whether you think you can or not. Even at minimum wage, you make more money than 75% of the entire world. You have more means to provide than they do, so you need to be providing.

Building roads and protecting the innocent from evildoers are just functions of the government. Public schools and the welfare state, not so much.

Simple and to the point!

 

[dburkhead]

I think there is a third reason. The government can't (in theory it can but practically it can't) tax the food that I grow/hunt for myself.

You want to bet? What are hunting/fishing license fees but a tax on the food you hunt/fish yourself. As for food you grow yourself, note that the government has already defined crops grown for ones own use as "interstate commerce" for purposes of federal regulations involving growing crops. There is simply no reason that government unchecked cannot extend that down to individual gardeners.

Can you get away with it in the face of such laws? Maybe, for a while, but it's a gamble just like any criminal hoping not to get caught. From a tax perspective it's no different from the gang banger robbing a liquor store. He doesn't pay taxes on that either. (Difference being that I don't see anything morally wrong with growing/raising one's own food like I do with someone robbing someone--but is the government going to see them as different.)

If I produce more for myself then I don't have to spend my dollars on food that is taxed. This way I have a few more dollars to spend on the things that I can't produce for myself. (And yes, the other things I buy will be taxed, but my dollars stretch farther by making more of my budget untaxed.)

Right up until they decide to tax you on the value of home-produced food. Yes, you can cheat on it in much the same way that bootleggers cheat on paying the tax on alcohol.

 

[Eddie]

You want to bet? What are hunting/fishing license fees but a tax on the food you hunt/fish yourself. As for food you grow yourself, note that the government has already defined crops grown for ones own use as "interstate commerce" for purposes of federal regulations involving growing crops. There is simply no reason that government unchecked cannot extend that down to individual gardeners.

This is true and that is why I qualified my statement.

Can you get away with it in the face of such laws? Maybe, for a while, but it's a gamble just like any criminal hoping not to get caught. From a tax perspective it's no different from the gang banger robbing a liquor store. He doesn't pay taxes on that either. (Difference being that I don't see anything morally wrong with growing/raising one's own food like I do with someone robbing someone--but is the government going to see them as different.)

Right up until they decide to tax you on the value of home-produced food. Yes, you can cheat on it in much the same way that bootleggers cheat on paying the tax on alcohol.

Again, all very true, my point was merely that there are other reasons for "going Galt".

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Tuoder,

[strike]I'm thinking that a[/strike]All of INGO would benefit if you take us all out to dinner tonight and pick up the tab. You are directed to be at St. Elmo's on Illinois St in Indianapolis at 6:00PM 20 April 2010 where you will purchase dinners for 2,000 members of the [strike]Democra[/strike] INGO membership. Failure to [strike]appear[/strike] comply will result in your arrest and possible fine of $25,000 and incarceration in a federal penitentary for a period not to exceed 5 years, or both in accordance with Internal Revenue code 15 U.S.C.[strike]I've been wanting to try St. Elmos for awhile now.[/strike]

Fixed it for you.

 

[dburkhead]

Again, all very true, my point was merely that there are other reasons for "going Galt".

Yes, there are, but they generally fall under the heading of "wishful thinking."

 

[BloodEclipse]

Well, I'll start with a quote, so we're sure we're on the same page as to the wording.



This, by my reading, protects and individual right to keep and carry guns, knives, swords, or whatever weapons are available. It also provides one rationale for the protection of this right, the formation of militia. Others include an intrinsic right to self-defense, and defense of one's loved ones and property. These are natural rights not explicitly enumerated by the Constitution, that nonetheless exist.

Maybe you should read this and then see if your answer, after a bit of knowledge, remains the same.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/general_political_discussion/5889-the_unabridged_second_amendment.html

After reading through your comments again, maybe you do understand this right. Many of your posts seem to run contrary to your supposed understanding.

 

[BloodEclipse]

You know perfectly well we were talking about firearms.
Stop escalating the argument when you can't/won't answer the original question.
I will rightly assume by your refusal to answer that you believe the
government is right and that the citizens should be limited and
infringed upon.



Oh, I know........ we were talking about phasers or better yet......
I'm going to got out and get a new construction loan for a shiny DEATH STAR!!!!!!!

If you want to escalate, let's do it right.

I'll co-sign with you.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

I'll give you five more reasons.

5 years and $25,000 if you make a mistake on your taxes.
4 times in 5 years tax auditors have run their greasy fingers through your books.
3 college degrees that took thousands of hours and hundreds of thousands of dollars to complete.
2 broken marriages.
1 life that is too short.
0 respect you get from half the population for your contribution.

and last but not least:

Thousands of hours working while others are playing.

Guess that's more than 5.

It's hardly worth the risk anymore. I'm in a safe position. I could retire to my golf swing and change a few things in my life and sit on my porch playing with my dogs. .gov policies and attitudes make it very hard to want to do anything else.

Oh, I know why you're going Galt. There are really only two reasons to chose from:

1) The mistaken belief that "going Galt" actually accomplishes something to make things better.

or

2) One finds a certain schadenfreude ("joy in others' misfortune") in sitting and watching while everything goes to while doing nothing to try to avert the trainwreck.

 

[44 MAGNUM SHOOTER]

Damn. Am I a Liberal now ?

 

[dross]

Between these three, they are authorized to do everything you mention.

Besides the things specifically prohibited by the Bill of Rights, what, in your opinion, is Congress NOT allowed to do?

 

[hornadylnl]

Savage,

is the 30 yo with an armed robbery at 18 you or a "friend"?