Man Dies After NYPD Chokehold

[Kirk Freeman]

Well, Mark is not a kid and the use of force by our police is an important political topic, so there is that.

 

[RockofStrength]

Why do you kids browse these nutjob web "news" sources? Even better, why do you feel compelled to spew their nonsense on gun forums?

What like NBC and ABC news? Granted they're not exactly reliable to overcome their political biases but they at least do have some reputation to maintain.

 

[JMoses]

Why do you kids browse these nutjob web "news" sources? Even better, why do you feel compelled to spew their nonsense on gun forums?

Because their hatred for all police consumes their every being. They have nothing better to do and I guess it makes them feel special.

 

[jbombelli]

Why do you kids browse these nutjob web "news" sources? Even better, why do you feel compelled to spew their nonsense on gun forums?

Because homicide is nonsense?

Because their hatred for all police consumes their every being. They have nothing better to do and I guess it makes them feel special.

I guess YOU think so.

 

[sj kahr k40]

Because their hatred for all police consumes their every being. They have nothing better to do and I guess it makes them feel special.

 

[sj kahr k40]

Why do you kids browse these nutjob web "news" sources? Even better, why do you feel compelled to spew their nonsense on gun forums?

From Fox News, or are they nutjob "news" sources also

Medical examiner says chokehold by police officer caused death of NYC man; ruled homicide | Fox News

 

[KG1]

Why do you kids browse these nutjob web "news" sources? Even better, why do you feel compelled to spew their nonsense on gun forums?

Because their hatred for all police consumes their every being. They have nothing better to do and I guess it makes them feel special.

Not everyone is so quick to turn the other way and not ask questions like the two of you.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

The headline is misleading, but that's par for the course these days. The media is driven by what you will click on, that's a fact, and headlines are where they get you.

That said, the article itself lays it out pretty well. You cannot fight a fat guy then lay on him once he's compliant. This is bad. Everyone, but especially fatties, should be sat up or rolled onto their side. They should not lay down, especially face down, and especially with extra weight on them. Sometimes they keep fighting and you don't have much choice, but that doesn't appear to be the case here.

This has nothing to do with the "choke hold" and would have been the same if they'd just arm bar'd him down and laid on him. Still fighting? Fine, do what you need to do to keep him from hurting you or himself. Not fighting? Sit him up or roll him onto his side and hold him there if you need to. This is truly Cop 101 stuff, and I'd have a hard time believing NYPD doesn't teach the same thing.

 

[Fargo]

Not everyone is so quick to turn the other way and not ask questions like the two of you.

Having apparently drank deeply of the us-vs-them koolaid, those two now appear dedicated to making sure as many citizens as possible also drink of it; thereby being sure to poison as much of the jury pool as possible as regards LEO credibility...

 

[forgop]

Charge the cop with manslaughter. Make every LEO believe they aren't above the law. Last I checked, the average Joe cannot choke out another person that results in death to the other person. Same should go with that d bag.

Oh, I forgot. It's a cop. Time for a desk job for a few weeks to "investigate" and for the merit board to wave their finger at the idiot.

 

[KG1]

The headline is misleading, but that's par for the course these days. The media is driven by what you will click on, that's a fact, and headlines are where they get you.

That said, the article itself lays it out pretty well. You cannot fight a fat guy then lay on him once he's compliant. This is bad. Everyone, but especially fatties, should be sat up or rolled onto their side. They should not lay down, especially face down, and especially with extra weight on them. Sometimes they keep fighting and you don't have much choice, but that doesn't appear to be the case here.

This has nothing to do with the "choke hold" and would have been the same if they'd just arm bar'd him down and laid on him. Still fighting? Fine, do what you need to do to keep him from hurting you or himself. Not fighting? Sit him up or roll him onto his side and hold him there if you need to. This is truly Cop 101 stuff, and I'd have a hard time believing NYPD doesn't teach the same thing.

Well he is kinda laying on his side but it also appears that an officer is applying some form of choke.

Would this be considered proper form?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Well he is kinda laying on his side but it also appears that an officer is applying some form of choke.

Would this be considered proper form?

If he's still fighting handcuffing, sure. That's not even a choke as far as I can tell, there's plenty of room on both sides of the neck for blood flow, and air chokes would result in damage that an autopsy would presumably show. It would also not allow him to speak.

I was talking more about after the fact, though. Looking at a still photo doesn't do you much good. My concern would be after the fight is over, do they roll him up on his side or sit him up? If he's cuffed AND no longer struggling, that's the proper thing to do. If he's still fighting, you may have to hold him prone for longer than you otherwise would. Like most things, it depends on the situation.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Right to be suspicious of a still photo.

Lots of types of homicide.

Wait and see.

Reserve conference room table for possible group INGO run.

 

[forgop]

If he's still fighting handcuffing, sure. That's not even a choke as far as I can tell, there's plenty of room on both sides of the neck for blood flow, and air chokes would result in damage that an autopsy would presumably show. It would also not allow him to speak.

I was talking more about after the fact, though. Looking at a still photo doesn't do you much good. My concern would be after the fight is over, do they roll him up on his side or sit him up? If he's cuffed AND no longer struggling, that's the proper thing to do. If he's still fighting, you may have to hold him prone for longer than you otherwise would. Like most things, it depends on the situation.

Let's put that choke hold on you and see if your first instinct is to just lay there as your airway is closed off. But it's a cop doing it so he's well within his right to kill someone.

 

[Denny347]

Let's put that choke hold on you and see if your first instinct is to just lay there as your airway is closed off. But it's a cop doing it so he's well within his right to kill someone.

Been there...done that, I'm an instructor in it. There are 2 types of chokes, air and blood. Blood=10 seconds and you are asleep. Air=damage to the throat and cannot talk. Neither happened here. This is from the article.
Bolcer says his death was caused by "the compression of his chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police." She says asthma and heart disease were contributing factors.
The choke hold had nothing to do with his death. As I speculated many posts up, it was positional asphyxia that killed him. No one is saying it was right, but it is important to be accurate with the cause.

 

[forgop]

Been there...done that, I'm an instructor in it. There are 2 types of chokes, air and blood. Blood=10 seconds and you are asleep. Air=damage to the throat and cannot talk. Neither happened here. This is from the article.
Bolcer says his death was caused by "the compression of his chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police." She says asthma and heart disease were contributing factors.
The choke hold had nothing to do with his death. As I speculated many posts up, it was positional asphyxia that killed him. No one is saying it was right, but it is important to be accurate with the cause.

And who was holding him in that position while said asphyxia took place? Regardless of whether the guy died as a direct result of the choke, they did cause his death. I work in health care and common sense says you would pose risk to his respiratory status if you hold him down for someone of that body type.

But hey, whatever it takes to keep the police state alive, eh?

 

[KG1]

If he's still fighting handcuffing, sure. That's not even a choke as far as I can tell, there's plenty of room on both sides of the neck for blood flow, and air chokes would result in damage that an autopsy would presumably show. It would also not allow him to speak.

I was talking more about after the fact, though. Looking at a still photo doesn't do you much good. My concern would be after the fight is over, do they roll him up on his side or sit him up? If he's cuffed AND no longer struggling, that's the proper thing to do. If he's still fighting, you may have to hold him prone for longer than you otherwise would. Like most things, it depends on the situation.

Got it. It was sort of a freestyle compliance technique with the forearm underneath the chin and hands clasped together with the left shoulder leaning in to apply pressure.

Point of clarification. I said that it appeared to be a choke being applied and I also never claimed that the death was directly related to being choked out.

Calm down Kirk. No conference room table runaround order has been issued.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Calm down Kirk. No conference room table runaround order has been issued.

Standing by.

Meanwhile . . . at INGO HQ . . .

 

[KG1]

Where's the pure grain alcohol?

 

[kickbacked]

That cop needs to work on his choke hold, that was rather pathetic. Someone want to explain how they planned on getting the arm he is laying on to his back while they are on top of him, hes a big boy?