Man Dies After NYPD Chokehold

[Libertarian01]

To All,

I watched the video a second time and cannot hear if NYPD actually was in the process of arresting him. I never heard, "You are under arrest. Place your hands behind your back" or any variation thereof.

So, was he legally in the process of being arrested? If so, how can we tell? I am presuming possibly by the actions of the NYPD but I don't hear any words articulating such. Are such words required?

I would presume even if he was breaking the law by selling something that would be a very minor violation like a speeding ticket, which would only warrant a ticket with a fine?

Regards,

Doug

 

[Denny347]

To All,

I watched the video a second time and cannot hear if NYPD actually was in the process of arresting him. I never heard, "You are under arrest. Place your hands behind your back" or any variation thereof.

So, was he legally in the process of being arrested? If so, how can we tell? I am presuming possibly by the actions of the NYPD but I don't hear any words articulating such. Are such words required?

I would presume even if he was breaking the law by selling something that would be a very minor violation like a speeding ticket, which would only warrant a ticket with a fine?

Regards,

Doug

The video cuts out right before they put their hands on him so it is quite possible that happened but was cut from the video. I HATE edited/shortened videos.

 

[Que]

Nobody killed him for selling individual cigarettes. That's the same argument as the illegal alien advocates say when they say stuff like "he got deported for speeding." No, that's what the original stop was for. Then it escalated as either facts changed or other facts were brought to life.

If the guy had complied, would the fight have taken place? No, but he decided to not cooperate. That led to an escalation of the event. How many people in NY get busted under this law? How many get killed? Right, this isn't an execution for breaking a minor law, let's not pretend otherwise.

I'm not pretending at all. I'm tired of seeing this kind of thing happen and explained away because they guy had a record. Looking at the video, it looked like he was swarmed upon pretty quickly and was under control. Another video shows the officers watching him and not attempting to revive him in any way. I wonder how long it took them to call for medical assistance? To me this is more than following orders and there is certainly more to the story.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

 

[bingley]

Just watched the video. Based on that, I don't think the choke was what killed the guy. First, it looks like the arm wasn't in the right position for an efficient choke. Second, those of you who have been choked in jujutsu, wrestling, sambo, MMA, etc., know that you can't talk while getting choked. The deceased kept talking throughout. The officer on the deceased's back was just using the guy's neck to hang on. Either that, or he sucked at choking. Of course, sometimes thing look one way on video when they are in fact another.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Not surprised. The choke hold didn't kill him. It really is hard to tell (or impossible) from the video but it is possible that this guy died of a heart attack from being taken to the ground. Positional asphyxia is very hard to prove and this video doesn't show a lot. If you are to believe his claims and that he was having trouble breathing when he was yelling out, that could have been a result of a heart attack in progress and not suffocating. Difficulty breathing can be a sign of a heart attack. If there are NO signs found at autopsy other than a heart attack, prosecuting the officer will be very difficult.

Denny is absolutely right. Unfortunately, I can attest to this from personal experience. Further, it can happen with no warning as was the case when I lost my mom to a heart attack.

 

[renauldo]

The dead guy was no doubt on SSD. After his family receives the $255 death benefit, I hope they are not too overcome with grief to notify SS to cancel the payments he was receiving. If I have a chance to talk with Al Sharpton I'll have to ask him.

 

[Fargo]

The dead guy was no doubt on SSD. After his family receives the $255 death benefit, I hope they are not too overcome with grief to notify SS to cancel the payments he was receiving. If I have a chance to talk with Al Sharpton I'll have to ask him.

These magical "facts" you are producing to denigrate the dead guys family; how do you pull them out of your ass with your head lodged so firmly in it? Inquiring minds wish to know.

 

[renauldo]

These magical "facts" you are producing to denigrate the dead guys family; how do you pull them out of your ass with your head lodged so firmly in it? Inquiring minds wish to know.

To the minds: Just a big ol' WAG on my part. There's been a lot of speculation on this topic. I'm just voicing my concern for the dwindling SS account that I depend upon. I'll mention your concern to Al.

 

[Que]

The dead guy was no doubt on SSD. After his family receives the $255 death benefit, I hope they are not too overcome with grief to notify SS to cancel the payments he was receiving. If I have a chance to talk with Al Sharpton I'll have to ask him.

Another reason that his murder should be alright. Pretty soon, some of your buddies will tout the fact that he sold cigarettes to children and cancer patients.

 

[KG1]

I guess one thing is certain. The deceased stated that he was getting tied of being hassled by the cops and said "this stops today"

Well it did indeed end that day.

“Every time you see me you try and mess with me. I’m tired of it! It stops today!” Garner says to the police officer.

“I told you the last time, just please leave me alone!”

- See more at: Man begged police to stop choking him moments before he died | Rare

 

[rambone]

To the minds: Just a big ol' WAG on my part. There's been a lot of speculation on this topic. I'm just voicing my concern for the dwindling SS account that I depend upon. I'll mention your concern to Al.

Your wild guesses do nothing to protect your precious social security subsidies.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm not pretending at all. I'm tired of seeing this kind of thing happen and explained away because they guy had a record. Looking at the video, it looked like he was swarmed upon pretty quickly and was under control. Another video shows the officers watching him and not attempting to revive him in any way. I wonder how long it took them to call for medical assistance? To me this is more than following orders and there is certainly more to the story.

There is no question the guy was resisting. There is no question he was killed for it. .

How many arrests before someone deserves to be killed?

No, you're very much pretending. No one there intended to kill him. He obviously died as a result of his interaction with the police, but that neither automatically makes it the cop's fault nor does it make it an intentional killing.

Its not being explained away because he had a record. Its being explained by saying the cop has due process, just like you do. His record is irrelevant, unless its one of violence and the officer knew that before hand, as a history of violence is one of those things that adds to the totality of the circumstances.

Another reason that his murder should be alright.

Its not a murder. Even if the cop is wrong and used excessive force, which from the medical examiner's report and the fact the guy continues to talk while being "choked" I doubt, there is no intent. Not every killing is a murder, as I've pointed out a few times in this thread with both police and civilian examples.

As others have pointed out, its not even really a choke hold, as it didn't block air or blood. If it blocked air, the medical examiner's report would show damage to the neck and he wouldn't be able to talk. If it blocked blood, he'd be knocked out in about 8 seconds or so, not still talking. What likely killed him was his spike in heart rate and blood pressure from getting his adrenaline up and then struggling adding stress to his near breaking point circulatory system. That sometimes happens to fat or old cops and firefighters, too, and I've already provided the links for that and no one got charged with murder as a result.

 

[Que]

No, you're very much pretending. No one there intended to kill him. He obviously died as a result of his interaction with the police, but that neither automatically makes it the cop's fault nor does it make it an intentional killing.

Its not being explained away because he had a record. Its being explained by saying the cop has due process, just like you do. His record is irrelevant, unless its one of violence and the officer knew that before hand, as a history of violence is one of those things that adds to the totality of the circumstances.



Its not a murder. Even if the cop is wrong and used excessive force, which from the medical examiner's report and the fact the guy continues to talk while being "choked" I doubt, there is no intent. Not every killing is a murder, as I've pointed out a few times in this thread with both police and civilian examples.

As others have pointed out, its not even really a choke hold, as it didn't block air or blood. If it blocked air, the medical examiner's report would show damage to the neck and he wouldn't be able to talk. If it blocked blood, he'd be knocked out in about 8 seconds or so, not still talking. What likely killed him was his spike in heart rate and blood pressure from getting his adrenaline up and then struggling adding stress to his near breaking point circulatory system. That sometimes happens to fat or old cops and firefighters, too, and I've already provided the links for that and no one got charged with murder as a result.

I don't really care about the choke hold. I'm wondering why the altercation had to occur in the first place? Do the police have the power to simply harass someone until they decide to say, "Put your hands behind your back!"? That department and arresting officer has a history of harassing people and abuse of their authority, but I don't see anything about that. It's always the person who is murdered whose wrap sheet is published for the public to view. Believe as you want, but I've been there and although I'm no cop-hater, I know everything isn't always black and white. There are some bad police officers out there.

NYPD Officer Daniel Pantaleo Stripped Of Gun, Badge After Chokehold Death

Also, how do you know it's not a murder? Even it it began with no intent, the elements can be made for other degrees of murder.

 

[Denny347]

I don't really care about the choke hold. I'm wondering why the altercation had to occur in the first place? Do the police have the power to simply harass someone until they decide to say, "Put your hands behind your back!"? That department and arresting officer has a history of harassing people and abuse of their authority, but I don't see anything about that. It's always the person who is murdered whose wrap sheet is published for the public to view. Believe as you want, but I've been there and although I'm no cop-hater, I know everything isn't always black and white. There are some bad police officers out there.

NYPD Officer Daniel Pantaleo Stripped Of Gun, Badge After Chokehold Death

Also, how do you know it's not a murder? Even it it began with no intent, the elements can be made for other degrees of murder.

This is why I hate edited videos. This one has been shortened so we do not see what happened between the start of the video and when they go "hands on". Without using the article titles as a reference, I do not see ANYTHING in that video that would answer the question of whether or not he should have been arrested.

 

[Que]

This is why I hate edited videos. This one has been shortened so we do not see what happened between the start of the video and when they go "hands on". Without using the article titles as a reference, I do not see ANYTHING in that video that would answer the question of whether or not he should have been arrested.

Exactly! If it had not been for the little video that has been offered, absolutely nothing would have been don't about this and the mayor would have been on his way to Italy. Even though the officer has a history of abuse, I still doubt anything will be done. History tells us there must be PROOF the officer acted outside of his authority. The word of the witnesses in some neighborhoods are automatically discounted, so without complete video coverage, things continue as if nothing is wrong. With all the surveillance in NY, I wonder why they can't pull their own video? Maybe the officer will give a ticket to somebody who is "connected" and lose his job.

 

[sj kahr k40]

Ruled a homicide

Official: Police chokehold caused NYC man's death - TheIndyChannel.com

Headline says chokehold killed him but the story mentions positioning of the body

 

[rambone]

HOMICIDE

UPDATE: The New York City Medical Examiner has declared Eric Garner’s death a homicide, NBC reported, and that the chokehold employed by NYPD Officer Daniel Pantaleo was the cause of death.

The medical examiner added that contributing factors in Garner’s death were his chronic asthma, obesity, and hypertensive cardiovascular disease.

Eight-year NYPD veteran Officer Pantaleo along with four EMTs were suspended following their handling of Mr. Garner.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Have to wait for the ME's report and a determination if justified or not.

Thanks for the update, Steve and Ram.

 

[Bravo-4-2]

Why do you kids browse these nutjob web "news" sources? Even better, why do you feel compelled to spew their nonsense on gun forums?