LTCH test/class?...what do you guys think?

[haldir]

Why not just get the UT permit?

because I don't have your kind of money

 

[Shay]

because I don't have your kind of money

Don't hate me because I'm rich.

There are plenty of other good reasons.

 

[rambone]

Sounds like a lot of us believe we have a Bill of Privileges more than a Bill of Rights.

Some of these arguments hold more relevance than others. A "right" is something that the Government cannot stop you from doing. Bearing arms is a right. We have the right to defend ourselves with those arms.

Becoming an airline pilot, an astronaut, a police officer, a public school teacher, a medical doctor, a public official... these are not rights. These are career choices and involve much time and money to achieve these titles. We do not want to make self-defense an inaccessible proposition.

There are lots of states that already restrict the heck out of their licensed carriers. These states (and countries) are the source of much scorn and scrutiny for their rampant infringement on the rights of the individual. You will find that there is just as much, if not more criminal activity and accidents taking place in those states. Regulating and fining the legal gun-owners does not achieve the goal that you gun-controllers are seeking.

 

[ATM]

Bill of Privileges

to INGO, Bill.

 

[cce1302]

YES!












A one question test:
Do you support the constitution of the United States?
Yes- here is your LTCH and a pocket sized copy of the US Constitution.
No- Here is a one-way ticket to Cuba.

 

[g00n24]

How about not. Just plain NOT.

Here's a better idea. You guys who don't like the way it's done in Indiana go some place you like better.

No one said anything about not liking it here in IN bud. This is a hypothetical question to see what peoples opinions are. Would you or would you not be interested in applying for a different license to get more reciprocity. That is all. No one is *****ing about IN, at least Im certainly not. get that straight.

 

[in625shooter]

Leave the Indiana Process Alone. Obtain a Florida or Utah Permit if you must but the Indiana Law is Clear and works for the rest of us

There are good points on both sides. I'm not saying Indiana ways don't work but getting another states permit might not be feesible forever. This might effect some people, Others might not care. Some states are looking (Colorado was, don't know if it passed there) at putting stipulations on which say Florida, Utah or whoever permits they honor. What I mean by that is the state might honor say state A's permit but only if you are a resident of state A. If you are a resident of state B but got a permit for state A just to circumvent their law due to your own state not being honored your LTCH in the state you are not a resident of is not honored!

So I guess it boils down to if all the other (or enough) states ever change like that would it make a difference to you to either change here or you just not carry in the state in question!

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I want a mandatory 65 hour class (5 hours of range time) and a 200 question written test (with at least 15 essay questions) and a 250 round shooting test (95% score to pass) to weed out the poor, any lower intelligence individuals, badly skilled and other undesirables. It should cost no more than $1500. Mandatory LTCH insurance or some sort of bond would be a great idea too. Annual re-certification would be necessary of course to reconfirm an applicant's commitment and continued lawfulness.

Sure but to teach the class requires a mandatory 650 hour class (50 hours of range time) a 2000 question written test etc etc because the teachers should know more than the students, and should cost no more than $15,000. And mandatory insurance that would cover whatever wrong doing was done by the students and montly recerts of course. Yes I know your post was sarcasm and so was this one.

Leave the Indiana Process Alone. Obtain a Florida or Utah Permit if you must but the Indiana Law is Clear and works for the rest of us

Indiana law is not entirely clear, see the various recent polls about what is legal without a ltch and all the other threads with questions. And while I have a lifetime ltch so it works for me in this state doesn't mean I wouldn't like some changes, such as no license needed to carry, sbs being legal, carry on school property, no local infringement ie parks and such, those being the big 4, I can come up with more but for right now those are the biggies.

How about not. Just plain NOT.

Here's a better idea. You guys who don't like the way it's done in Indiana go some place you like better.

How can you be so UnAmerican? If you don't like it you change it, you don't move. Heck did the founding fathers move or did they fight for what they wanted? While I will fight for it not to become mandatory for training to be required to carry, I will also fight for not needing a ltch to carry, and also for non violent felons to be able to own/carry, and even for violent ones to do the same if they have served their time and are no longer deemed a threat to others(if they are deemed a threat, keep their butts locked up) and I will even fight to have voluntary training to add an endorsement to our ltch if it will get more states to honor it.

I'm not saying Indiana

I'm not saying Indiana

I'm not saying Indiana

I'm not saying Indiana

I'm not saying Indiana

Etc etc.
I've heard of double taps and post whoring but this if the first time I've seen full auto whoring. Perhaps another one or 12 of these might help Or is that the problem?

 

[Bill of Rights]

...Some states are looking (Colorado was, don't know if it passed there) at putting stipulations on which say Florida, Utah or whoever permits they honor. What I mean by that is the state might honor say state A's permit but only if you are a resident of state A. If you are a resident of state B but got a permit for state A just to circumvent their law due to your own state not being honored your LTCH in the state you are not a resident of is not honored!...

There are six such states: CO, FL, MI, KS, NH, SC. WV used to be that way, but is no longer, as of (I think) July of this year.

And there is no reason to change our laws because some other state doesn't like them. Far better, I think, to continue to show that our crime rates are lower by not restricting their citizens from carrying here than theirs are by disallowing ours from carrying in their state.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Bill of Rights]

...
Indiana law is not entirely clear, see the various recent polls about what is legal without a ltch and all the other threads with questions. And while I have a lifetime ltch so it works for me in this state doesn't mean I wouldn't like some changes, such as no license needed to carry, sbs being legal, carry on school property, no local infringement ie parks and such, those being the big 4, I can come up with more but for right now those are the biggies.

IN law is very clear. People's understanding of IN law is what is lacking, mostly due to misinformation passed around by those who mean well but don't check their facts before speaking.

How can you be so UnAmerican? If you don't like it you change it, you don't move. Heck did the founding fathers move or did they fight for what they wanted? While I will fight for it not to become mandatory for training to be required to carry, I will also fight for not needing a ltch to carry, and also for non violent felons to be able to own/carry, and even for violent ones to do the same if they have served their time and are no longer deemed a threat to others(if they are deemed a threat, keep their butts locked up) and I will even fight to have voluntary training to add an endorsement to our ltch if it will get more states to honor it.

Actually, our Founders did both: they left England in the face of religious persecution and changed it here. Fight for what you think is right, but understand that it matters not what compromises we offer. It is said that when you sit down to negotiate what you already have, you've already lost. The expected progression from allowing a change to "voluntary training" is to incrementally change it: "Well, see, we've had voluntary training for X years, so why not just make it mandatory now? Surely no one will take a stand against public safety."

Etc etc.
I've heard of double taps and post whoring but this if the first time I've seen full auto whoring. Perhaps another one or 12 of these might help Or is that the problem?

I should say that at one point, I entered a post a single time and had some 20-odd copies of it show up. I dropped a PM to the only online mod and asked him to please delete the extras after I went through and changed all but one of them to a ".". I don't know that that's what happened here, but I can't discount it. (and I don't , either! )

FWIW.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[rvb]

Let's see.... basic driver's ed makes people drive SO much better and keeps them from making poor decisions while driving, right??

mandatory minimum training is a "feel good" restriction of a basic right.

and remember, you need a permit to legally take yor gun to go get training... kinda catch 22

-rvb

 

[Timjoebillybob]

There are six such states: CO, FL, MI, KS, NH, SC. WV used to be that way, but is no longer, as of (I think) July of this year.

And there is no reason to change our laws because some other state doesn't like them. Far better, I think, to continue to show that our crime rates are lower by not restricting their citizens from carrying here than theirs are by disallowing ours from carrying in their state.

Blessings,
Bill

That reminds me, I've been meaning on asking this question. FL offers a non-resident permit, but they don't honor non-resident permits. If I had a non-resident from FL and didn't have my IN ltch would they not honor their own permit? From my reading of the law I'd say they wouldn't honor it.

IN law is very clear. People's understanding of IN law is what is lacking, mostly due to misinformation passed around by those who mean well but don't check their facts before speaking.

True for the most part.

Fight for what you think is right, but understand that it matters not what compromises we offer. It is said that when you sit down to negotiate what you already have, you've already lost. The expected progression from allowing a change to "voluntary training" is to incrementally change it: "Well, see, we've had voluntary training for X years, so why not just make it mandatory now? Surely no one will take a stand against public safety."

You do make a very good point on the slippery slope part. I didn't really consider it. And I agree with the saying about sitting down to negotiate.

I should say that at one point, I entered a post a single time and had some 20-odd copies of it show up. I dropped a PM to the only online mod and asked him to please delete the extras after I went through and changed all but one of them to a ".". I don't know that that's what happened here, but I can't discount it. (and I don't , either! )

FWIW.

Blessings,
Bill

True, it was meant as a joke. I doubt the poster meant to post that many posts, especially when there was one or two letters added on to each, I'd guess it was some sort of a glitch.

 

[basswizard]

Maslak may be on to something.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...2nd_amendment/58788-vermont_has_it_right.html

"Thus Vermont would become the first state to require a permit for the luxury of going about unarmed and assess a fee of $500 for the privilege of not owning a gun."


Personally I like the way Maslak thinks. The only permit required is for those that choose to be unarmed.

I understand the concern that all who carry should be competent with their arms. So I agree with Jeremy when he said:

I would support training and testing...

IF it was made part of school curriculum. This should be a part of our educational system anydamnway! This used to be a country of Riflemen. Hence the reason Appleseed was started. This would be the only way I would even remotely support this kind of idea.

And as far as licensing goes... I have a valid SSN and Birth Certificate saying I was born inside this beloved land. That is about all the proof I need to buy, carry, fire, or detonate whatever that I feel like.

 

[Chuck26287]

The constitution says I have the right to bear arms. It doesn't say I have the right to take a test to see if I qualify to bear arms, nor does it specify a minimum score to qualify for my right to bear arms. To me, a "shall-issue" state shows the truest support of my constitutional right to bear arms. It's my right... if I want to exercise it, as a law abiding citizen, I only have to ask.

I would take a test and required training if I had to, but I'm truly glad I don't have to.

 

[revance]

No to the test.

POSSIBLY yes to the class. If it is done JUST LIKE the Utah licenses.

Utah completely privatized the system. Companies offer a 4hr class where gun lovers talk to other gun lovers about guns. They do all the paperwork for you, do your prints, and you just put a stamp on the envelope. Being a private business, they offer classes at convenient times. Best of all, there is no dealing with local LE and going through the BS some of them pull. It also doesn't cost much more than our current IN LTCH including the cost of the class.

 

[Bill of Rights]

The constitution says I have the right to bear arms. It doesn't say I have the right to take a test to see if I qualify to bear arms, nor does it specify a minimum score to qualify for my right to bear arms. To me, a "shall-issue" state shows the truest support of my constitutional right to bear arms. It's my right... if I want to exercise it, as a law abiding citizen, I only have to ask.

I would take a test and required training if I had to, but I'm truly glad I don't have to.

Why should you have to ask?

 

[Chuck26287]

I was referring to CC, not jut a right to have a firearm on my property. A "shall issue" state won't issue until you ask (read that "apply for").

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I was referring to CC, not jut a right to have a firearm on my property. A "shall issue" state won't issue until you ask (read that "apply for").

Not to speak for BoR, but I think that is what he was referring to. Why should you have to ask and pay for a piece of paper to exercise your rights. Including CC/OC.

 

[jeremy]

I was referring to CC, not jut a right to have a firearm on my property. A "shall issue" state won't issue until you ask (read that "apply for").

Actually our current permit started as a way of making sure those that chose to CC were good and decent citizens...


If I remember my history correctly that is...

 

[gage]

no no no and no to the test.