LTCH is shown when a LEO runs your DL

[Kirk Freeman]

proffered

Proffer=from the Greek, pro offer, one co-defendant in a drug case rolls over on another.

Proffered=past tense, the co-defendant already rolled thus securing the better plea agreement.

 

[Glock19]

Its probably more for officer safety so when they go to a domestic call or something similar they can see that you probably have weapons...Not saying i approve or disapprove..

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Proffer=from the Greek, pro offer, one co-defendant in a drug case rolls over on another.

Proffered=past tense, the co-defendant already rolled thus securing the better plea agreement.

She could have said "snitch", I would have understood right away.

 

[CathyInBlue]

To offer up, put forward.

 

[vitamink]

Again, it's just more information and the difference between assuming someone has a gun and knowing. Short of being able to read a person's mind, no amount of information will keep you 100% safe. Like I said before, i don't think this has anything to do with keeping LEO's safe and more along the lines of proving you have a LTCH when you forget it or your wallet gets stolen so you don't spend the night in jail, bond out, get a lawyer, take days off to go to court and pay a crap load of money for a simple mistake. Many people forget their LTCH, many drivers forget their licenses. As eldirector says, "yes i have a gun and you already know i'm legal...are we done?"

Ok, I give up. In the above post you are contradicting yourself and now your above post seems to be a 180 from this post.

What is the intent of LEO's having this information? Surly it's not for someone getting pulled over, who forgot their LTCH at home.

I am in no way contradicting myself. As i've said in almost every post so far. ANY BIT OF INFORMATION HELPS. I am willing to concede that no information will keep anyone 100% and officers should treat everyone as if they are armed and want to kill them. Unfortunately for them they can't walk up to your car with a shotgun, stick the barrel through the window and say "sir just clip your ID and registration to the end of this barrel and i'll be right back with you" as that would be some "police state" "JBT" ect thing to do. My anecdotal references regarding the child raper was an attempt to show that any bit of information helps.

1. cop stops a car
2. Guy has child molest warrant
3. Guy has LTCH
4. Cops experience is that child molesters try to kill the police or themselves... and this one has a gun.

That story was just to show a real-life-just-happened-last-week-in-your-home-state situation where it was useful. It was a reply to someone earlier kept implying that having that capability was utterly useless to the police.

The thing i mention above is not a change of opinion. I don't think the LTCH pop up window was an ability enacted under the guise of keeping officers safe. I think it is to mitigate the issues you may have with the police when you forget your wallet, or hand them a pink wadded up square of paper with no discernible writing and say "thats my LTCH...promise". I am willing to bet that the reason they have this ability is a prominent LTCH haver didn't have it and the police locked him up. The LTCH haver probably sued and now the police have the technology to prevent such issues. I say this as suing the police is what enacts or removes abilities.

Now here is my opinion:
I think it's a good thing. I think it keeps the police 1% safer, hardly worth it but as i said before any little bit helps. And the main point: I think it prevents good honest law abiding citizens from getting locked up and spending thousands to defend themselves instead of spending thousands on a new gun keeping the economy going.

My stance hasn't changed.

 

[GBuck]

We should just all start registering our weapons so that cops can know exactly who has what and can know it for a traffic stop or anything else. That's much better for officer safety, since a lot of people own guns, but don't have a LTCH. The fact that they should approach safely, because most criminals don't care about a LTCH anyways is just a myth.



Apply purple liberally.

 

[vitamink]

Or we can just blow everything out of proportion.

 

[pftraining_in]

The LTCH info is solely to check if the license is valid, the same as when an officer runs your driver's license to see if it is valid. I tell countless people their driver's license and plates are expired simply because it something people typically do not pay attention to. People forget.

Your LTCH is actually linked to your DOB, not your driver's license number. Some departments get it back with every driver's license check because their computer system uses the DOB to check the driving status, others do not because their system uses the driver's license number.

All this information is received to allow the officer to do his job efficiently. The less question we have to ask dispatch, the quicker the call is completed and the more accurate the information is because the officer is reading the information first hand and not relaying on someone else. If your license or plates expires you get a warning, a citation or your car towed. If your handgun permit is expired and you are in possession of a handgun you are facing a stiffer penalty. I typically remind people on stops that their license, plates or LTCH is about to expire to help them out.

If you are that concerned about the police knowing you have a handgun, get an out of state handgun license, move, or don't get one.

 

[GBuck]

The LTCH info is solely to check if the license is valid, the same as when an officer runs your driver's license to see if it is valid. I tell countless people their driver's license and plates are expired simply because it something people typically do not pay attention to. People forget.

Your LTCH is actually linked to your DOB, not your driver's license number. Some departments get it back with every driver's license check because their computer system uses the DOB to check the driving status, others do not because their system uses the driver's license number.

All this information is received to allow the officer to do his job efficiently. The less question we have to ask dispatch, the quicker the call is completed and the more accurate the information is because the officer is reading the information first hand and not relaying on someone else. If your license or plates expires you get a warning, a citation or your car towed. If your handgun permit is expired and you are in possession of a handgun you are facing a stiffer penalty. I typically remind people on stops that their license, plates or LTCH is about to expire to help them out.

If you are that concerned about the police knowing you have a handgun, get an out of state handgun license, move, or don't get one.

The point is, on a simple traffic stop unless there is an issue OTHER than the simple traffic stop, the gun should never be a topic of discussion anyway.

That is literally the entire point of this conversation.

 

[Mosinguy]

liberally.

Rush Limbaugh told me liberals are baaaad.





Apply purple progressively (not liberally) through that statement.

 

[GBuck]

Rush Limbaugh told me liberals are baaaad.





Apply purple progressively (not liberally) through that statement.

Well let me tell you about Mr. Limbaugh!


...On second thought... I like it here. I don't want to get banned.

 

[Mosinguy]

Well let me tell you about Mr. Limbaugh!


...On second thought... I like it here. I don't want to get banned.

The cool kids get two week [STRIKE]suspensions[/STRIKE] bans for accidentally breaking rules the first few months they're here

 

[pftraining_in]

I never mentioned in my post that a firearm was involved in the stop. I don't ask for firearms and don't care if you have a permit unless the call requires that information. I stated that I will remind the driver that it is about to expire based on the information I receive. This would be out of courtesy, not to destroy your rights or stomp on your dreams.

The computer system does not know you are driving your Prius or your 18 wheeler when I stop you, it tells me you have a CDL when I run you.

 

[GBuck]

I never mentioned in my post that a firearm was involved in the stop. I don't ask for firearms and don't care if you have a permit unless the call requires that information. I stated that I will remind the driver that it is about to expire.

The computer system does not know you driving your Prius vs your 18 wheeler when I stop you, it tells me you have a CDL when I run you.

Again, in a traffic stop where no weapon is involved, there is no need to know about my LTCH. You may not care about guns, but many less educated officers will freak out about them. I'm sure you can find threads on here demonstrating this if you would like.

 

[GBuck]

"Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration has been minding my own business. Government shouldn't play a part in everyday life. Jefferson said that the people should be left to manage their own affairs. His opposition will bear careful analysis, and the country could stand a good deal more of its application. The trouble with us is we talk about Jefferson, but we do not follow him. In this theory that the people should manage their government, and not be managed by it, he was everlastingly right." -- Calvin Coolidge

 

[pftraining_in]

Why do I need to know you have a CDL with multi-trailer endorsement and HAZMat when I stop you in your Prius for throwing a cigarette out the window? It is because if you get a DUI, reckless driving or other violations it effects your CDL status. Crime that you can commit while driving or not driving may effect your right to carry and that information may become important, may not. The information being available reduces the amount of research required and time spent. If there is a question about a license or LTCH, I prefer the officer to know now and not require the person in question to wait for a physical search of paper documents that could takes hours or days.

Your same philosophy could come into play if 1% of officers do not like people over 6' because the officers are short. Should we remove hight information from license to stop that small percentage of officers from harassing tall people?

Being "harassed", as some will put it, by one officer on a traffic stop does not mean every officer is that way. Unless you are stopped daily by several officers and can show unbiased documentation of a pattern you are basing your information on far too small of a sample.

 

[BravoMike]

I am in no way contradicting myself. As i've said in almost every post so far. ANY BIT OF INFORMATION HELPS. I am willing to concede that no information will keep anyone 100% and officers should treat everyone as if they are armed and want to kill them. Unfortunately for them they can't walk up to your car with a shotgun, stick the barrel through the window and say "sir just clip your ID and registration to the end of this barrel and i'll be right back with you" as that would be some "police state" "JBT" ect thing to do. My anecdotal references regarding the child raper was an attempt to show that any bit of information helps.

1. cop stops a car
2. Guy has child molest warrant
3. Guy has LTCH
4. Cops experience is that child molesters try to kill the police or themselves... and this one has a gun.

That story was just to show a real-life-just-happened-last-week-in-your-home-state situation where it was useful. It was a reply to someone earlier kept implying that having that capability was utterly useless to the police.

The thing i mention above is not a change of opinion. I don't think the LTCH pop up window was an ability enacted under the guise of keeping officers safe. I think it is to mitigate the issues you may have with the police when you forget your wallet, or hand them a pink wadded up square of paper with no discernible writing and say "thats my LTCH...promise". I am willing to bet that the reason they have this ability is a prominent LTCH haver didn't have it and the police locked him up. The LTCH haver probably sued and now the police have the technology to prevent such issues. I say this as suing the police is what enacts or removes abilities.

Now here is my opinion:
I think it's a good thing. I think it keeps the police 1% safer, hardly worth it but as i said before any little bit helps. And the main point: I think it prevents good honest law abiding citizens from getting locked up and spending thousands to defend themselves instead of spending thousands on a new gun keeping the economy going.

My stance hasn't changed.

I'm glad that information helped in that particular case, however I would still argue that anyone who is pulled over with a crime like that doesn't want to go to jail, LTCH or not. That person might also want to resist and wouldn't a LEO handle that situation with caution regardless of LTCH? I am not a LEO, but I would think that anytime they make an arrest, they realize that this person might not go easily. I realize it might not be fair to make such an assumption, but if I am wrong with that last sentance then I stand corrected.

I can see how this system might be there to validate a LTCH. I also understang that LEO's have always had the ability to call dispatch and get that information.

Thank you for your input. My stance hasn't changed either.

 

[BravoMike]

Why do I need to know you have a CDL with multi-trailer endorsement and HAZMat when I stop you in your Prius for throwing a cigarette out the window? It is because if you get a DUI, reckless driving or other violations it effects your CDL status. Crime that you can commit while driving or not driving may effect your right to carry and that information may become important, may not. The information being available reduces the amount of research required and time spent. If there is a question about a license or LTCH, I prefer the officer to know now and not require the person in question to wait for a physical search of paper documents that could takes hours or days.

Isn't it up to an individual to produce a LTCH and if they don't, can't you just call dispatch and they can relay that information? Why would you have to do a physical search and why would it take hours or days? If someone commits a crime that effects their right to carry, why does them having their "document" have any relevence at that point in time?

Your same philosophy could come into play if 1% of officers do not like people over 6' because the officers are short. Should we remove hight information from license to stop that small percentage of officers from harassing tall people?

I didn't realize this was an issue. Maybe you're right and we should remove this information.

Being "harassed", as some will put it, by one officer on a traffic stop does not mean every officer is that way. Unless you are stopped daily by several officers and can show unbiased documentation of a pattern you are basing your information on far too small of a sample.

I have three very good friends who are LEOs and When I got my LTCH about four years ago I asked each one how to handle a traffic stop. They each told me to inform the officer at the begining of the traffic stop and they also told me to expect to have my gun taken during the traffic stop. To me, (I know some may disagree) that is being "harassed." I realize that three LEOs may not represent the entire police force, but I did ask them "what can I expect from LEOs, in general."

If you are that concerned about the police knowing you have a handgun, get an out of state handgun license, move, or don't get one.

I actually think that IN has some very reasonable laws concerning guns and self-defense. I hope we can keep it like that and remove the ones that make no sense and only cause a burden. So sorry to those who may not like me, but I'll stay!

 

[vitamink]

I'm glad that information helped in that particular case, however I would still argue that anyone who is pulled over with a crime like that doesn't want to go to jail, LTCH or not.

agreed

That person might also want to resist and wouldn't a LEO handle that situation with caution regardless of LTCH?


Caution, yes but it narrows your scope. Like I said in that situation officers know that he will give up, try to kill himself or try to kill you. Chances are he doesn't have a gun so your only obvious deadly weapon is the car so you want to remove him from it or get the keys so he can't drive into oncoming traffic...BRRRIIING LTCH ok now you know he has a gun and that's your main focus. you certainly don't want to reach for the keys and you definitely want to pay attention to where his hands are at. Prior to the LTCH pop up thing the officers would have been 80% safe. In this scenario they were 81% safe.

I am not a LEO, but I would think that anytime they make an arrest, they realize that this person might not go easily. I realize it might not be fair to make such an assumption, but if I am wrong with that last sentance then I stand corrected.

What you said is very true. Cops get fed a lot of info on stops. A warrant hit means someone is going to jail. Someone with a warrant will often do whatever they can to not go to jail. A warrant hit + LTCH hit means someone is going to jail, that person may do whatever he can to avoid going to jail...and has a gun. Cops should be cautious regardless. A cop knows this guy is likely to kill someone. If he knows the guy has a gun then he knows that a gun will be used in this mans decision making process as it's the best/easiest choice for him in the given scenario...they were right as they approached he was reaching under the seat. Had there been no LTCH hit in the scenario a cops focus would shift to the vehicle for a weapon as it would be used to either run them over or go into oncoming traffic. I do get the point that just because there is no hit doesn't mean he doesn't have a gun

I can see how this system might be there to validate a LTCH. I also understang that LEO's have always had the ability to call dispatch and get that information.

Part two is incorrect and unfortunately led to some serious problems for some absent minded gun owners.

Thank you for your input. My stance hasn't changed either.

We will agree to disagree but we understand each other better.

 

[GBuck]

It seems like quite a stretch from "this man has a warrant and is going to jail," to "this man and has a warrant and a LTCH, so he has a gun and is likely to kill someone." People are arrested on warrants every day that have guns and never make an attempt to kill someone. You're right, we disagree and we'll just have to leave it at that until legislation changes.