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lots of police called on me
- Thread starter silentvoice71
- Start date
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If you buy a good audio recorder, just turn it on whenever you leave the house. Mine will record for hours at a time. That way, whenever you stop in at any location, it's already recording, and then you don't have to try and hit the record button when your face is in the gravel. Then, when you return home, and nothing eventful happened that day, just hit the delete button. Pretty simple. I do it a lot.
No one's saying that Speedway should give our friend the recording, we're just saying that Speedway needs to hold on to their copy because this could turn into a legal battle.
Contact the ACLU! They may pick up the case for you. It seems like their actions would fall under the category of unlawful detention or deprivation of cival liberties/cival rights. They might contact the department for you. Of course this only applies if you are correct on the legality of OC in that city.
I ageee they should give it up, but a lawyers going to have to make them, they dont want to be involved in this sort of thing, and they dont allow employees, vendors, or contractors to carry on their property, so I assume they arent pro-gun
Typically I back the LE simply because of the task they have in our society. Not being on-scene myself, if this occurred, then you MUST do the following:
1. Sit down and calmly write down everything that happened, from the moment you arrived until an hour after you left. Do this without passion. If you know of any witnesses, get their observations.
2. Request, in writing and e-mail, a copy of the tape/digital recording of this event from the owner of the store in question. Ensure that the CORPORATE office is notified. Do this NOW as they may attempt to erase if they believe they have made a mistake.
3. Research the particular laws regarding OC at that exact location, gather this info.
4. Immediately make a FORMAL Police complaint, in writing, and in e-mail. Ask that Internal Affairs assign an officer to your complaint, and that you get in contact with this officer ASAP. After doing this, see if there is a "Community" Ombudsman or civilian that handles complaints against the department in question. Contact them and make a formal complaint.
5. Contact an attorney and schedule an appointment. Bring ALL of the info you have gathered to this meeting.
All of this is what causes LE to act. If you are SILENT, they assume that all is well. Modern society, governments, and LE in the US only reacts to the very real threat of a lawsuit. Sad but true.
1. Sit down and calmly write down everything that happened, from the moment you arrived until an hour after you left. Do this without passion. If you know of any witnesses, get their observations.
2. Request, in writing and e-mail, a copy of the tape/digital recording of this event from the owner of the store in question. Ensure that the CORPORATE office is notified. Do this NOW as they may attempt to erase if they believe they have made a mistake.
3. Research the particular laws regarding OC at that exact location, gather this info.
4. Immediately make a FORMAL Police complaint, in writing, and in e-mail. Ask that Internal Affairs assign an officer to your complaint, and that you get in contact with this officer ASAP. After doing this, see if there is a "Community" Ombudsman or civilian that handles complaints against the department in question. Contact them and make a formal complaint.
5. Contact an attorney and schedule an appointment. Bring ALL of the info you have gathered to this meeting.
All of this is what causes LE to act. If you are SILENT, they assume that all is well. Modern society, governments, and LE in the US only reacts to the very real threat of a lawsuit. Sad but true.
Society Not ready for OC
What happened to Silentvoice71 is the exact reason I CC; I don't want the hassles that he has gone through.
Until Society is ready for open carry, anyone that does open carry even though legal should be prepared for this kind of ridicule and false accusations.
Yes it sucks that we have all been stereotyped into bad people because we exercise our 2nd amendment right to carry firearms.
We here in Indiana do have the choice to either open carry or Conceal carry. I choose CC, and until open carry is accepted more in society, I doubt I will change my carry habits. That’s my choice here in Indiana.
I would be sure to file a complaint on the LEOS that were unprofessional in Silentvoice71‘s case.
That’s my 2 cents on the issue.
What happened to Silentvoice71 is the exact reason I CC; I don't want the hassles that he has gone through.
Until Society is ready for open carry, anyone that does open carry even though legal should be prepared for this kind of ridicule and false accusations.
Yes it sucks that we have all been stereotyped into bad people because we exercise our 2nd amendment right to carry firearms.
We here in Indiana do have the choice to either open carry or Conceal carry. I choose CC, and until open carry is accepted more in society, I doubt I will change my carry habits. That’s my choice here in Indiana.
I would be sure to file a complaint on the LEOS that were unprofessional in Silentvoice71‘s case.
That’s my 2 cents on the issue.
How will it ever be accepted if people don't do it?
This kind of suff has got to stop. Police who do not know the laws they are sworn to enforce !! Everday people not knowing the "Open Carry" is LEGAL in Indiana.
If you contacted the NRA, I am sure they would run some ad's in the local paper letting people know that "Open-carry" IS legal in Indiana.
If you contacted the NRA, I am sure they would run some ad's in the local paper letting people know that "Open-carry" IS legal in Indiana.
I agree completely. It has always bothered me that "ignorance of the law is no excuse" for me, when the police themselves often don't know the laws they are enforcing. I've seen police officers claim that they can't possibly know all the laws they have to enforce. I'm very sure that's true. But if that's the case, then how can *I*, a person who has NOT been trained in the law, and HASN'T made the law my life's work, possibly be expected to know and obey them all? I would bet there are Indiana Supreme Court Justices who don't know all the laws. But I, as a citizen, am expected to know and abide by them all.
Contacting WOWO was a good idea. Didn't think of that.
Out of curiosity... since I don't see the report on the WOWO local news page yet, I'm wondering if you sent the email directly to the news department or to one of the talk show hosts? I'm not really sure if they'd report it along with the morning news, but it would be a good topic for discussion for one of the hosts to talk about and have a call-in session.
Count me in. I'm still in school in Terre Haute, but if the event lines up with a time I'll be home (or could afford the time and money to make the drive home just for the event), I'll be there to show my support for legal OC.
It really isn't so bad as to call it "out of control". I OC around Fort Wayne all the time without issue. What we have here is an isolated incident, which should be dealt with, but that should not necessarily reflect upon the city as a whole.
I thought it was humorous that your location says Indianapolis and you speak about The Fort being out of control.
I know many people from Fort Wayne who say Indy is "too big" for them or too "gun-unfriendly". (This post has several first-hand reports by a personal friend who moved to Fort Wayne to get out of Indy.) I want to reiterate, I'm not trying to start a flamewar about Indy-vs-FW, but your post caught me by surprise and kinda made me chuckle And it was only on page 12 when you read it! I had 16 pages to get through! And who knows how many more posts since I started replying to all these quotes?!
14 pages and no one has yet made the following suggestion...
"Don't trouble yourself, sir; I'll call them myself to report my 'illegal activity'. I am right, and you are wrong." (Grab cell phone and dial the non-emergency dispatch #)
"FWPD..."
"My name is ____ and I am at (location). I am being harassed by some guy for the lawful, licensed carry of my firearm in accordance with Indiana state law. He's being a bit aggressive about the fact that my defensive firearm in not concealed, even though I know for a fact that both open and concealed carry are permitted by my LTCH."
(Ask the genius directly...)
"You aren't planning on attacking me, are you?" (watch as he spits and sputters more non-sense...)
"At the moment there seems to be no need to send an officer, I just want him to know that I am legally carry as provided for by my LTCH.
(Hand the phone to the :dumbass: )
"Here, do you want to talk to them, 'Expert'??"
Then sit back and watch him make a bigger fool of himself....
[snip]
It has been said here before that the first caller is naturally assumed to be the victim/good guy. I can almost guarantee that he *didn't* tell the dispatcher, "There is a man calmly pumping gas in his vehicle, and he also happens to have a holstered firearm on his hip." Most likely he said something like, "THERE IS A GUY WAVING A GUN AROUND AT THE GAS STATION!!! I THINK HE IS ABOUT TO ROB THE PLACE OR KILL SOMEONE!!!"
Wow, that was a great idea. Repped.
I already have the non-emergency numbers for the local PD and county sheriff offices in both cities I frequent saved in my phone, and I guess that would be a great time to use them.
Quoted for reference so I can look it up later.
You are certainly not alone. My brother has made the same decision, and my dad for the most part CC's. Being the only young, dumb one left in my family, I don't have any big reason to change my legal ways just to avoid the hassle. I want to OC; it's legal; I do so responsibly, safely, and in a non-alarming manner (as the OP did); I don't care if I'm detained for a while and have to deal with misinformed/crusading LEOs; so that's why I go ahead and OC. Someday when I have a gf/wife/family/job, I may decide that it is no longer worth the hassle, but until then... I'm game. (Of course, there are places where OC may not be appropriate, and in those cases I will CC. But I prefer to OC when I can.)
Right on. I won't try to convince everybody that they should OC because I understand that not everybody wants to, could, or should. But I do have an interest in raising general awareness so that those of us who do want to OC may do so without causing alarm among people who don't realize that it is legal and will do what I can to help raise that general societal awareness.
OK... long post. I read it over and think I got all the typos out. If you find one, please just be grammar-Nazi-lite, eh?
The problem is that there are hundreds, if not thousands of state laws. Some state laws are very simple, others are complex, requiring specific criteria to be met. In a perfect world, every cop would memorize every statue. That is not likely. Good lawyers memorize the laws, court rulings, etc., so they can be a good asset to their clients. Good lawyers make good money, much more than an average police officer is going to make. If you want high IQs in uniforms, you are going to have to match the pay they can make in the private sector. Not only that, you might have to pay even more given the work environment. How many here have applied, and are still applying to work in law enforcement? How many here would rather someone else do the job then you can turn around and complain about how it is being done?
Also, stop making blanket statements that might get non-license holders in trouble. Open carry is _only_ legal if you have a license and/or are a member of one of the excepted classes of people. Outside of that open carry is ILLEGAL!
When cops say they don't know the law, they usually mean they don't know the exact wording of the law. Most will have a firm grasp, some won't until they are told, and others will never get it, but given rarely anyone wants to do the job, they were the only bodies left to give a badge too. I have never known of a situation where the suspect didn't know they were doing something wrong. There are some gray areas, but for the most part, the crimes we are talking about are your basic crimes that most folks know their actions are at a minimum questionable (ie: Going onto property that is not yours to skateboard, then claiming ignorance of trespass law...not gonna fly, as it is not _YOUR_ property, and you know that).
The problem is this is a double edge sword. I have gotten complaints for _not_ doing something. This affects my personnel file, and could affect my chances are promotion. Some departments are good about only including substantiated complaints, others throw them all in regardless of fault. Look at the other thread on here about shots fired. People complaining because the cops didn't play jackboot and 'do more'. It is a no win situation. The person complaining about their rights being violated because a cop makes a mistake in the law will turn around and demand the cops "do something!" in an incident they deem unacceptable, or when the person doesn't think the cops are doing enough.
Posted by the State of Indiana.
http://www.in.gov/isp/files/firearms_FAQ_02_08.pdf
Now I would like to throw in a Supreme Court Case.
On September 8, 2009, United States District Judge Bruce D. Black of the United States District Court for New Mexico entered summary judgment in a civil case for damages against Alamogordo, NM police officers. The Judge's straight shootin' message to police: Leave open carriers alone unless you have "reason to believe that a crime [is] afoot."On these facts, Judge Black concluded as a matter of law that the police violated Matthew St. John's constitutional rights under the Fourth Amendment because they seized and disarmed him even though there was not "any reason to believe that a crime was afoot." Judge Black's opinion is consistent with numerous high state and federal appellate courts, e.g., the United States Supreme Court in Florida v. J.L. (2000) (detaining man on mere report that he has a gun violates the Fourth Amendment) and the Washington Appeals Court in State v. Casad (2004) (detaining man observed by police as openly carrying rifles on a public street violates the Fourth Amendment).
Kudos to Judge Black!!
http://www.in.gov/isp/files/firearms_FAQ_02_08.pdf
Does Indiana statute require me to carry the handgun on my person concealed or
exposed?
exposed?
Indiana law is silent on this issue; however, carrying an exposed weapon in public may
alarm some people. Also, the right to carry a firearm may be restricted on private
property and businesses by the owners. Be attentive for signs warning of restricted
areas when carrying firearms into public places. If approached by law enforcement for
official business such as traffic stops or complaint related inquiries, it is recommended
that you tell the officer in a non-threatening manner that you are carrying a weapon or
have a weapon in the vehicle and that you have a valid permit. A law enforcement
officer does have the right to inspect the permit.alarm some people. Also, the right to carry a firearm may be restricted on private
property and businesses by the owners. Be attentive for signs warning of restricted
areas when carrying firearms into public places. If approached by law enforcement for
official business such as traffic stops or complaint related inquiries, it is recommended
that you tell the officer in a non-threatening manner that you are carrying a weapon or
have a weapon in the vehicle and that you have a valid permit. A law enforcement
Now I would like to throw in a Supreme Court Case.
On September 8, 2009, United States District Judge Bruce D. Black of the United States District Court for New Mexico entered summary judgment in a civil case for damages against Alamogordo, NM police officers. The Judge's straight shootin' message to police: Leave open carriers alone unless you have "reason to believe that a crime [is] afoot."On these facts, Judge Black concluded as a matter of law that the police violated Matthew St. John's constitutional rights under the Fourth Amendment because they seized and disarmed him even though there was not "any reason to believe that a crime was afoot." Judge Black's opinion is consistent with numerous high state and federal appellate courts, e.g., the United States Supreme Court in Florida v. J.L. (2000) (detaining man on mere report that he has a gun violates the Fourth Amendment) and the Washington Appeals Court in State v. Casad (2004) (detaining man observed by police as openly carrying rifles on a public street violates the Fourth Amendment).
Kudos to Judge Black!!
sloughfoot
Grandmaster
I'm not going to make any excuses for the responding Officers, but given the history of armed robberies at that Speedway, they are going to take very seriously any report of a man with a gun.
Scott Tegtmeyer is indeed a fine, level headed Officer.
Go to 1320 East Creighton with the date and approximate time of the incident. The people in Records can easily look up any report made of the incident, if there is any. At the very least, you will get the control number for any complaints you wish to file. They will also get you the complaint form for you to fill out. All complaints against Officers go to Internal Affairs and are investigated thoroughly.
Scott Tegtmeyer is indeed a fine, level headed Officer.
Go to 1320 East Creighton with the date and approximate time of the incident. The people in Records can easily look up any report made of the incident, if there is any. At the very least, you will get the control number for any complaints you wish to file. They will also get you the complaint form for you to fill out. All complaints against Officers go to Internal Affairs and are investigated thoroughly.
I'd be looking up the shadiest mouthpiece I could find and seeing what a nasty lawsuit I could lay on them.
Spread Eagle on a gas station floor...Naw this is wrong.
Anyone that carry's a weapon for self defense should already have a lawyer on retainer and on their speed dial.
TK
Spread Eagle on a gas station floor...Naw this is wrong.
Anyone that carry's a weapon for self defense should already have a lawyer on retainer and on their speed dial.
TK
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