Looking at 9/11 with actual science

[j706]

but you still are making guesses.
im stating what i believe and why i dont believe your theroies. sorry if im arguing a point and you dont think your getting the proper reach around.

i havent engaged in name calling. im tired of all the babies on INGO that are afraid to argue for what they believe, or wear their feelings on their sleeves. sorry if your use to (as a cop) everyone bowing down to you, but here its level playing field)

Sheeezzzz.

 

[USMC_0311]

CDI (Controlled Demolition, Inc.)
Do they use thermite?

Nope I am going on IMO common sense.

Common sense vs. science

Let’s see hundreds of architects and engineers vs. your common sense.

These are reputable men with thousands of hours of study, practical application, and absolutely nothing to gain from not telling the truth.

Do I believe them out right? No, but they do bring up questions that should be answered.

I don't buy no black boxes found.
I don't buy government conspiracy
I don’t buy a lot of things about 911

I don’t think we know the whole truth either.

Why shut them down based on common sense or your own personal bias because you have seen a few implosions.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Thermite is only useful for rocket fuel. It doesn't explode and would be a terrible thing to use for a CDI.

All you need for an "Aluminothermitic Reaction" is Rust and Aluminum and heat. All of which were readily available when you crash 40 tons of aluminum jetliner full of fuel into a steel building.

Also, jets are full of magnesium, and titanium, which will also burn when you get them hot enough.

Mag will burn in a bonfire. It burns hella hot and bright white for a long ass time too.

 

[j706]

CDI (Controlled Demolition, Inc.)
Do they use thermite?





Common sense vs. science

Let’s see hundreds of architects and engineers vs. your common sense.

These are reputable men with thousands of hours of study, practical application, and absolutely nothing to gain from not telling the truth.

Do I believe them out right? No, but they do bring up questions that should be answered.

I don't buy no black boxes found.
I don't buy government conspiracy
I don’t buy a lot of things about 911

I don’t think we know the whole truth either.

Why shut them down based on common sense or your own personal bias because you have seen a few implosions.

I never mentioned anything about seeing a few implosions. All the type of people you named are not experts in the forensics of a terrorist attack either. Actually this incident is new uncharted territory. It has never happened before.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

So once we've all stated our beliefs, it gets down to: "Did not!" "Did too!" "Did not!" "Did too!"

 

[Tactical Dave]

Thermite is only useful for rocket fuel. It doesn't explode and would be a terrible thing to use for a CDI.

All you need for an "Aluminothermitic Reaction" is Rust and Aluminum and heat. All of which were readily available when you crash 40 tons of aluminum jetliner full of fuel into a steel building.

Also, jets are full of magnesium, and titanium, which will also burn when you get them hot enough.

Mag will burn in a bonfire. It burns hella hot and bright white for a long ass time too.

Most of the magnesium and titanium left the buildings when the engines and wheels came out the other side.... I think only one wheel was found inside.

After you remove that it is mostly aluminum.

 

[308jake]

The one thing I find hard to believe is that the government/military/FFA/whoever was unable to stop the second plane from crashing into the towers after the first one hit. I can comprehend having trouble stopping one rogue plane, but 2? Somebody within our government knew what was going on and did nothing to stop it.

 

[USMC_0311]

I never mentioned anything about seeing a few implosions. All the type of people you named are not experts in the forensics of a terrorist attack either. Actually this incident is new uncharted territory. It has never happened before.

The statement wasn't directed at you alone.
I like to spread it around a little.

Maybe not ALL but some of them are. Yes it was new and unchartered thats why we best understand exactly what happened. Whatever that is.
I don't know but I would like to. I am not convinced we know the whole he truth of 911.

All 4 black boxes unaccounted for?

 

[E5RANGER375]

The one thing I find hard to believe is that the government/military/FFA/whoever was unable to stop the second plane from crashing into the towers after the first one hit. I can comprehend having trouble stopping one rogue plane, but 2? Somebody within our government knew what was going on and did nothing to stop it.

suposedly 4 planes.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Most of the magnesium and titanium left the buildings when the engines and wheels came out the other side.... I think only one wheel was found inside.

After you remove that it is mostly aluminum.

Makes sense to me. The buildings were mostly open by design, so they wouldn't collect the heavy parts like a masonry or concrete building would.

 

[jeremy]

I have blown up a LOT of stuff over the years.
I have set even more stuff on fire.

The minimum fuel capacity of a Boeing 747 is 48,445 Gallons of Fuel.
Not to mention all the combustibles inside of each of the structures.
Your average house fire exceeds 1100-1400*F. Steel is melted at approx 1370*F...
The ragheads may not have expected what happened, that is because they are idiots (personal opinion here)...

I would imagine that those buildings with the introduction of JP Fuel to the fire/explosion were possibly rolling temps upwards of 2100*F in the initial stages of the fires.

While timing an explosive charge to coincide with a Jet Plane crashing into a building is entirely possible I can only think of maybe 2 people in the World who could do it...
Maybe...

I doubt it through...

Government Conspiracy?! Nah...
Government Incompetence?! Oh Yeah...

But heck I am just a Dumb Mechanic in the Army...
WTH do I know about anything?!

 

[USMC_0311]

Thermite is only useful for rocket fuel. It doesn't explode and would be a terrible thing to use for a CDI.

My referrence was to the company that performed such operations.
I was thinking if the stuff is used to cut/weld steel it could have a similar effect?

Just for fun I wanted to see what wiki had on it.
Thermite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Seems a little more then rocket fuel.

 

[rvb]

also how about the test that confirm explosive residue all over the place in the dust? also did the video talk about the 4 black boxes that the government says they never recovered but workers on the ground

I do agree that the Fed is covering things up, such as the final voice and data recordings, exactly what may have been on board (it is entirely plausible that the terrorists brough HE onboard), and many other things that people should know but that Uncle Sugar doesn't think they can handle.

Of course the gov is "covering things up." but I don't think [entirely] for the reasons assumed. The government would have very good reason for classifying this information. If, for example, the planes had explosives on them and that was made public, that could reveal a weakness in airport screening processes, and if the gov't makes public the actions to plug those holes, such knowledge would be usefull to an enemy that just thrust the USA into a war. Same for the black boxes. Protecting the knowledge gained from those boxes could be critical in preventing future attacks.

I do not believe the gov blew up the buildings. I've read and watched too many well thought-out and modeled explainations, such as the link to the fire chief's writeup above. The most likely "conspiracy" on that day, IMO, is the idea the gov shot down the plane over PA. But again, even IF that was the case, I can understand the strategic need to not come out and say so (either confirm or deny) as that could reveal a lot to an enemy about strategy and capability.

Not every closet has skeletons. Just because the gov isn't telling everything you think they should about that day doesn't automatically imply they are behind it.

Is it possible mistakes were made and the situation could have been prevented? Sure. Look at Pearl Harbor and the radar station that saw the first wave of attackers flying in. Hindsite makes it look pretty foolish to overlook that information. Perhaps it will be [officially] revealed someday that this was the case on 9/11. But that to me does not proove complicity.

-rvb

 

[Blackhawk2001]

There were at least 8000 aircraft in the skies over the US that day; there were hundreds in the air over that portion of the East Coast. Locating the hijacked airliners was not exactly a trivial exercise. NORAD (what used to be NORAD) had fighters on alert - for a threat from outside the US. Practicing for the highly unlikely circumstance of shooting down a terrorist-controlled aircraft is not the same as actually getting a shoot-down order from the chain-of-command. I'm not surprised the government couldn't get it done in time. If the same type of attack were attempted today, they might STILL not be able to get it done.

 

[Tactical Dave]

The one thing I find hard to believe is that the government/military/FFA/whoever was unable to stop the second plane from crashing into the towers after the first one hit. I can comprehend having trouble stopping one rogue plane, but 2? Somebody within our government knew what was going on and did nothing to stop it.

News travels fairly slow in aviation..... by the time they figured out it was an attack it was to late because they second one had hit........ it had never happend before so how would the FAA have known from just one hit..... it was also the FAA directors first or second day on the job...... can't remember.

Even if they knew by the time they got ahold of the fighters and got them in the air and on target I beleive it would have been to late.... the second airliner was allready way to close.

 

[USMC_0311]

While timing an explosive charge to coincide with a Jet Plane crashing into a building is entirely possible I can only thin of maybe 2 people in the World who could do it... Maybe...

I doubt it through...

The planes crashed into the buildings it was long time after that before the first building went down. Not sure any special timing was needed.

Thermite is not an explosive thats the whole basis of thier theory. If no thermite then their theory is wrong.

Anyway I just want to know where the 4 black boxes are?

 

[Tactical Dave]

My referrence was to the company that performed such operations.
I was thinking if the stuff is used to cut/weld steel it could have a similar effect?

Just for fun I wanted to see what wiki had on it.
Thermite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Seems a little more then rocket fuel.

Yeah they use it a lot on railroad stuff........

They only needed the planes and all the fuel..... the impacts weakened it all then the fire heated up the metal and the weight of the floors above it made the metal fail at some point.....

What would happen if you were in a tower and something took out say a quarter of the supports then a super hot fire started heating all the metal and there was say tens of thousands of tons of weight on top of that metal? We all know that metal can bend pretty easy when it is hot.....


The boxes probably melted down with everything else honestly..... they are only designed to hold up for so long...... but you never know.

 

[ATOMonkey]

The one thing I find hard to believe is that the government/military/FFA/whoever was unable to stop the second plane from crashing into the towers after the first one hit. I can comprehend having trouble stopping one rogue plane, but 2? Somebody within our government knew what was going on and did nothing to stop it.

They only had about 20 minutes to intercept. Not going to happen. Maybe if you had guys sitting in the seats with engines idling.

Also, prior to 911, all of our intercept radar pointed out, not in, because we expected the threat to come across the atlantic, not over friendly airspace.

 

[printcraft]

..................
One thing the truthers never get around to addressing is how both towers collapsed at the airliner impact points. The tower hit last fell first because it was hit lower down on the structure. IE more weight on the damaged area IMO.

Get with the truth brother, the jets were remotely piloted into the towers
via a direct digital tracking satellite uplink that had them fly at the precise
altitude and angle of attack to hit the towers exactly where the explosives
were placed.

I have been a fan of CDI (Controlled Demolition, Inc.) for two decades, have watched them prep a building for implosion, and talked with some of their engineers, drooled over the hot looking daughter of the family who is in charge of the pyrotechnics when someone is filming a movie scene using one of the implosions they do. I've been personally present at about half a dozen large structure demolitions. It takes WEEKS of preparations and a LOT of charges placed throughout the structural members (hundreds), and all of these have to be timed precisely. Many of the existing structural members are cut or weakened beforehand. It involves a couple dozen techs during that time, and shock tube and wire is run EVERYWHERE. Furthermore, there is a very distinct set of sounds that are made when the charges are set off since they have to be done in a certain order. And these people are the best in the business in the world.

Now, let's see, scale that up by a hundredfold, make it two buildings. All those people putting all those charges throughout a building's structural members, orchestrating it, and keeping this conspiracy quiet which would require at least a hundred people working for weeks in two highly populated buildings, also requiring the complicity of security and maintenance people who would likely be in that building when they were brought down. And that is somehow more believable than a couple of jetliners being flown into the buildings, a conspiracy that involves far fewer people and a lot less prior work. As I said, Occam's Razor.

BUT, BUT I saw this movie once where the Joker destroyed an entire hospital in a few hours.
If the government had a couple of hundred goons running around that
building overnight it could have happened.

There is a lot of fuel to continue burning for a while in a fire like that. Especially in a large building. A lot of heat will build-up. I could easily see steel melting when it's gone on for a bit. Add in drafts, plenty of other metals that will actually BURN, and you have a recipe to melt steel.

Pfft, when has fire EVER melted steel?!?
I know for a fact that steel is VERY strong and hard things are made of it.
Everyone knows that places that actually DO manage to melt steel are
using a mixture of pixie dust with the iron ore and the melting pots are
fired with unicorn farts.

...............

If you do not watch the whole video then please do not comment in this thread.

TLDW

I know you said please but my kid said please too when he wanted to stay up and play
his new Halo game last night instead of go to bed and I told him no.
Open form will get comments.










Oh, and let me add








EDIT: waiting for WHAT HAPPENED to come in and call me a FED.

 

[rvb]

Anyway I just want to know where the 4 black boxes are?

Wasn't there transcript and even audio from the PA BB released?
quick google: Flight 93 Cockpit Transcript - Wikisource

off the top of my head, I don't recal about the pentagon plane's BB.

-rvb