Longguns Downtown: What is the point?

[mk2ja]

Nice quote; nice writing

... a LTCH, which is obtainable by anyone with no felony record, a pulse, 2 money orders and 3 working brain cells.

While I respectfully disagree with your conclusions about the effectiveness of the Walk, I wanted to mention that I really got a kick out of the above quote.

I also appreciated the manner in which you presented your argument while not simply stooping to personal attacks. It seemed to me that you stuck to the facts, and then derived your personal conclusion from them. You're good grammer helpd made it easyer to reed two. In all seriousness, though, your solid writing made me actually stop and think it through again, while somebody who posted with horrendous grammar would've made me less likely to trudge through their post as well as lend less weight to its content.

After reconsidering, I maintain my support for participating in the Walk and hope that we do not end up being portrayed as poorly as some media outlets seem predisposed to. It is my opinion that if we keep our appearance clean and well kempt and our attitudes calm and reasonable--not letting ourselves get sucked into heated arguments that digress from the main point--if we can keep ourselves above reproach, then we will be successful in raising awareness of Hoosiers' rights without the feared backlash. And while we're at it, who knows, we may have some fun walking around with our guns out in the open. That's not something I've ever done before.

//C

 

[MyGlockRocks19]

In my opinion, a group of yahoos walking around downtown Indianapolis with long guns will not lead to anything positive for gun owners in general. As much as I dislike OC of handguns, I can see legitimate reasons for doing so. But long guns in the center of Indianapolis? Ah....no.

What exactly is the purpose of parading around downtown with long guns? Do you really believe that people are going to see this on TV and say, "Hey, I have a right to take my shotgun to Circle Center Mall." Walking around downtown with AR's, AK's, etc. will only serve one purpose....for the media to label gun owners as a bunch of loons, with an almost sexual fetish for their guns. Unfortunately, in some cases....I think that they are right. Do you think that the majority of citizens think that long arms downtown are a good idea, despite what may be legal?

Guns are tools, and tools have purposes. What is the purpose of an AR-15 downtown? Hunting? Target shooting? Self-defense? Please. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

Education? What exactly is your message? I'll tell you what your message is....whatever the media wants it to be. Without signs clearly defining your purpose, you are just an ambiguous gang.

Protest? What are you protesting? Carrying a long gun in public is legal in Indiana. So is carrying a pistol, with a LTCH, which is obtainable by anyone with no felony record, a pulse, 2 money orders and 3 working brain cells. Indiana is one of the most gun-friendly states. If there was pending legislation to curb gun rights, I could see a protest. But again, walking around aimlessly with guns is not a "protest."

I'll tell you what this "walk" is about. Anyone who has read this board since its inception knows about Ryan Savage. Since he makes so many posts per day, new members can no longer enjoy some of his earlier fits of rage and outbursts on here. Although it seems he may have matured a (very) little, I still see an undercurrent of "Let's do this so we don't have to use our guns in the future." In a time when there are more states that mandate handgun permits for their citizens than at any time in our nation's history, he sees civil war right around the corner.

This walk is mostly about Ryan Savage's ego, IMHO. He tried this about a year ago, and due to his ranting and obvious immaturity, no one would touch it with a ten foot pole. In the interest of full disclosure for those of you who may be unfamiliar....a word of caution before you hitch your 2nd Amendment wagon to this horse.

Ryan's main motiviation is to "do something" with his life. He has stated that, due to his criminal record, he can't be a politician, nor a soldier. This is his way of "making a difference." As for myself, I don't associate with people with criminal records, and don't particularly want them representing me as a gun owner. This isn't a personal attack....these are the facts. Ask him yourself, then decide.

This is all my opinion, of course. Feel free to disagree, even vehemently. I do feel that people deserve to know what the real motivation behind this may be, as I see no discernible purpose for walking around downtown with long guns. At best, it will be a negative to see people with guns disrupting business in our state's capitol. At worse....well, it only takes one ND.

Respectfully, I feel that the whole thrust of your argument lends itself to the general "fighting retreat" that gun owners have been dealing with for decades.

Yes, many states have passed "Right to Carry" laws recently...but didn't we always have that right? Does it really matter that we have a pink piece of paper, or a laminated ID card, that says that the State thinks its ok for us to exercise our right to armed self defense?

Of course, almost all of us who do believe in the Rule of Law have that laminated ID, or pink piece of paper, because we play by the rules...regardless of how asinine or unconstitutional they may be. We make little, inconsequential sacrifices, to remain the "good guys", to play by the rules, expecting that others will deal with us in good faith.

The tide must turn. We have not been dealt with in good faith...we have been hounded, persecuted, and vilified by the very people who are sworn to uphold the laws of the land, and protect and abide by the Constitution of this nation. THAT is what this walk is about, at least to me. This isn't so much a protest, as an affirmation of our rights.

There is no purpose to carrying long arms in Downtown Indy...but there is a right for us to do so. And that is why we'll do it. Its a reminder to the powers that be that we have not forgotten who's country this is, and we refuse to be driven into the shadows, to be forgotten and marginalized. We stand proudly in the daylight, unashamed and unrepentant patriots, reminding those around us what it means to be free and unafraid, and striking terror in those who would seek to usurp our power as free men.

Now, let me ask you...can I wax poetic, or what?

 

[WWIIIDefender]

It amuses me that some people on this thread think that exercising the rights that they do have will somehow hurt your rights. Well lets say your right, lets say that this walk actually gets legislation to hinder our gun rights. Maybe this march will finally let the government take our second ammendment rights away from us for good in todays political envioronment its possible. I actually see that as a good thing then the question will finally be are you a willing slave or not. What would happen if the 2nd ammendment was taken away? I think this walk will do 1 of 3 things. 1 not covered or talked about and wont have any effect. 2 start pushing the government back so that they start acting more responsible 3 push the government over the edge and bring about a massive demolition of our rights. All 3 are good scenarios, even option three because if its option 3 then we will see were the government by the people for the people really stands.

 

[techres]

You gonna have some detached, non-OC, camera people who can get video of the entire event for youtube if it goes well or even more importantly - if it does not go well?

If not, consider it. If so, make sure they understand their job is to do video and to keep from getting arrested at all costs. I.E. stay far enough out to keep anyone from having an excuse to stop filming.

Is there a bail pool set aside for those who do not have immediate cash on hand for bail money? Do you have people whose job it is to go and get each of the popo if it goes that way?

 

[Paco Bedejo]

You gonna have some detached, non-OC, camera people who can get video of the entire event for youtube if it goes well or even more importantly - if it does not go well?

This has been discussed & mentioned dozens of times already.

If not, consider it. If so, make sure they understand their job is to do video and to keep from getting arrested at all costs. I.E. stay far enough out to keep anyone from having an excuse to stop filming.

Good points.

Is there a bail pool set aside for those who do not have immediate cash on hand for bail money? Do you have people whose job it is to go and get each of the popo if it goes that way?

If I were to get arrested for exercising my rights, I'd gladly sit in jail until my family could come up with bail money. I'm quite certain that whichever "authority" trampled my rights would be paying my bills for a few years shortly thereafter.

If we're really to the point where we must fear persecution for exercising Constitutional Rights within the letter of the Unconstitutional Law, then we really need to be doing more than just scavenging for ammo at Wal-Mart and having pleasant discussions with our neighbor's kids about firearms.

 

[mettle]

Originally Posted by mettle
You NEED signs,
No we don't. Your concerns should be addressed beforehand. It's my understanding that it requires permits/money to take signs. We will have media material available. But most of this is covered in another thread.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/politics_laws_and_2nd_amendment/49980-message_and_talking_points_for_the_walk.html#post5 42112

I am saying: you need signs that declare, state the meaning of the protest and are CLEAR to someone who has no want, nor experience or any idea WHY a fellow would want an 'Assault Rifle' in the first place.

Its not an assualt rifle and its not a protest.

I'm not going unless it is completely clear to the non-participant WHAT, WHY the walk is about.

You can sit this one out if its not clear to you. Let the "non-participant" fend for themselves we won't hurt them.Just my

Cute responses, but not very bright. I am not attacking. If you want serious consideration, or even to be instantly perceived correctly it's time to up the ante.

2nd: Notice that I typed 'Assault Rifle' in quotes, as that is what it is called to those who don't know. Don't pretend to understand something without first reading it.

3rd: Again, I was speaking of non-participants as of those who would not be there to represent something...ONLOOKERS.

[personal attack removed]



[personal attack removed] And YES, you do need signs if you expect people who are driving by to see what the 'walkabout' is about. My grandma wouldn't know what it is about, she'd probably just think it was the National Guard. This outta be good.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

I don't see any good coming out of any of this, but to each his own.

 

[ATF Consumer]

Sit Ubu sit, good dog.

I use to watch Simon & Simon all of the time and that would always be played after the credits. I wonder how many people actually remember that?

 

[henktermaat]

... I am not attacking...

[personal attack removed]...

[personal attack removed]...

That says it all.

Let's keep it civil.

 

[Arm America]

I fail to see anything constructive coming from this as well, signs or no signs.

I "can" see new laws being enacted so that it does not happen again.

 

[USMC_0311]

Cute responses, but not very bright. I am not attacking. If you want serious consideration, or even to be instantly perceived correctly it's time to up the ante. Caling me ingornant is attacking in my book.

2nd: Notice that I typed 'Assault Rifle' in quotes, as that is what it is called to those who don't know. Don't pretend to understand something without first reading it. I pretend nothing I understand you completely sorry you did not see the sarcasm or humor.

3rd: Again, I was speaking of non-participants as of those who would not be there to represent something...ONLOOKERS. Thats what I assumed with my response. They have nothing to worry about if they have questions or concerns they can ask us or the police. Let me make myself clear I am not going to jail nor will I embarass myself with the media.

Feel free to learn to read before you respond with ignorance. I am on your side; and, I am just stating a objection to the 'no signs' idea. It needs to be official, real, not just a bunch of guys with guns walking around. But, judging by your response to my post, and your lack of reading ability AND your instant want to alienate me just because I produce a valid argument, you'll fit right in with the rabble. Sit Ubu sit, good dog.

Their you go again calling me ingorant you don't play nice.



Carry On. It's all yours knowitall. And YES, you do need signs if you expect people who are driving by to see what the 'walkabout' is about. My grandma wouldn't know what it is about, she'd probably just think it was the National Guard. This outta be good.

Well I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I didn't attack you in the least, I tried to explain why the signs were not going to work but that went right past you.

If IMPD knows ahead of time and we conduct ourselves in a safe responsible manner why can't we go shopping OC'ing and/or with longguns. Why do I have to have a message or agenda? Thats the whole point.
Like I said I will have no ill feelings if you prefer sit this one out. I don't blame you one bit. Its the path of least resitence and some prefer that I just don't think its been very effective.

Peace

 

[SirRealism]

Let the Nay saying begin Time for all of the bed wetters, trolls and anti gun rights members to do a shout out here at INGO

Don't want to be involved, simple, do not be involved BUT do not rain on someone else's parade or whatever term they have coined.

As our Dear President would say, me thinks that you are all we weed up Try a Laxative, maybe you'll feel better

Wow. Name calling. That's unfortunate.

 

[4sarge]

Wow. Name calling. That's unfortunate.

IMO, there was no name calling, if saying someone is a naysayer, anti gun etc is name calling then you my friend are much too sensitive. Believe me, I can be much more creative

 

[jedi]

<<DISCLAIMER>> Read OP and up to page 5 before I stopped. Going to add my 2 cents and then UNSUBSCRIBE from this wonderful thread. So not ignoring anyone who may quote me but this thread is going nowhere why? Read on...

----
SavageEagle for quiet some time now (6+ months) has been toying with the idea of doing some type of 2A/Pro-Gun event (a rally, a march, a talk to your state reps, etc.) something to get the IN gun communty involved with our state reps. Each time he has posted ideas here @ INGO other members have shot it down for one reason or another, or asked him different questions on what is the message, logistics, what do you want to accomplish, etc (all valid points the questions that is) and each time SE has backed away from the idea/event.

Until now that is. SavageEagle may or may not know where this is heading (I have not talked to him personally about it), nor do I know if SE will be the new face of this movement, but any movement must start somewhere. Someone must start it and while that person may not complete it for whatever reason it has to start somewhere.

Many of the soldiers that landed on D-Day did not make it to the beaches you know. Yet Someone had to be the first in line in landing at the beaches. The same here. I have seen way too many of us give our 2 cents but unwilling to "land first on the beach". Is this "beach landing" the best one? No idea but it's better than just sitting around doing nothing.

The ANTI-GUNNERs are not going to stop. We have to take the fight to them and recruit more and more of those on the fence (the common people).

So SavageEagle and those involved I salute you for being the first ones on the beach. I wish you well (being in NW Indiana not sure I can make it) and know that your efforts do not go unnoticed.

For those that posted what will mean sucess from this event.
It will inspire someone, somewhere in this country to also begin to mobilize and represent. Just like the lone NH resident that OC @ the president event, he inspired others to follow suit so will this. Someone has to start and for Indiana that someone will be SavageEagle. In time SE will find others to help and even tae up the mantle & that is OK. But SE will always be remembered as the one that started it. The "paul R" that spread the word that the "ANTI-2As were coming".

 

[dburkhead]

I fail to see anything constructive coming from this as well, signs or no signs.

I "can" see new laws being enacted so that it does not happen again.

If you are arguing not to exercise a right because exercising the right will cause new laws forbidding the exercise of the right then. you. have. already. lost.

There's no meaningful difference between not exercising a right because you're afraid of losing it and having already lost it.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

 

[bigus_D]

IMO, there was no name calling, if saying someone is a naysayer, anti gun etc is name calling then you my friend are much too sensitive. Believe me, I can be much more creative

BED WETTER

....


I think this thread has run its course (perhaps a lock is approriate at this time). A new thread has started on the topic of what the message should be. Hopefully a unified message is developed, because without one (IMHO) the walk will be a huge fail. With the right message, I can see the walk being a success.

It is always best to do something just to do something. This has been the anti health care arguement comming from conservatives for a long time... hopefully it isn't a lost point here.