Longguns Downtown: What is the point?

[Blue Tile Spook]

More importantly, what will happen when the news media - or more likely the police - show up?

Don't make them angry. You wouldn't like them if they get angry.

 

[kingnereli]

But HE did it without disparaging his fellow INGOers...



Agreed, but we also need to pick our battles, and be very cognizant of the image we are presenting when we DO stand up for our 2A rights. In other words, we need to make a concerted effort to frame and control the debate, just as the anti-gunners do every time there is a mass shooting. Otherwise we're just giving the other side more ammo (pun intended) for their argument AGAINST our rights.



How is walking around downtown with slung weapons - no signs, no talking points, no nothing - "speaking out"? More importantly, what will happen when the news media - or more likely the police - show up?

The way I understand it there are going to be signs? Have you read the entire thread on the topic? All of your concerns are addressed there; focusing the issue into talking points, signs, we are considering contacting the media ourselves, I believe the police are getting a heads up as well. Please critique only after you insure that you are fully informed.

 

[USMC_0311]

My remarks were NOT meant to be disparaging or harmful to a delicate psyche. Different generation, I'm used to conversations with men that sometimes may not be PC in todays careful to choose our words pretend society

I get it!!!!

+1 for sarge and us old men

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

The reason I'm choosing to participate in the walk is to let my local politicians know that one way or another , they will listen and remember they work for me .

IMO , over the years "we the people" (John/Jane Doe) have become TOO COMPLACENT as our nation has prospered . We have become a fat , stupid and lazy state and country .

As evidenced by our belt sizes and test scores . Pissed ? , you outta be !

Far TOO long , most of us have sat on the couch watching TV while our rights have slowly been eroded right before our eyes . We've become a nation where everybody's a winner and gets a trophy .

God forbid anything negative gets said to offend our children's delicate sensibilities or they'll get a gun and pull some school shooting BS . Way to go parents and politicians !

Our country has been flooded with immigrants of all kinds and outsourced too many jobs . Not because it's in the best interests of our fellow countrymen as a whole , it's because big business and career politicians want it that way .

As individuals we've went to work , made our money and our standard of living hasn't been directly affected enough to care about anyone but ourselves . In doing so we're SCREWING our fellow Americans .

I understand that to call it a "walk" and not have signs is goofy , but unless you can afford to pay the ridiculous amount of money for insurance and permits , you do what you can to be legal .

I don't have the money to lobby a career politician to get a law passed in my favor , but I do have a voice , a vote and a gun . Do I think it will change anything , no but I have to try .

There's been a lot of talk both on the web and TV about a coming revolution . I have to know that I've done every peaceful thing I can to try to make a positive change before the bullets start .

 

[shooter521]

The way I understand it there are going to be signs? Have you read the entire thread on the topic?

Not all 30-something pages (a lot of it is off-topic stuff), but I have read the OP and the most recent pages to get a sense of the event as it currently stands.

One thing we discussed is that this needs to be refered to as a Walk. Not a March.

There will be no SIGNS, no FLAGS, no CHANTING.

I look forward to hearing the results of the meeting with IMPD if/when it takes place, and would be interested in seeing what the talking points are for the group.

 

[Boilers]

Obviously, there is no need to carry a longgun in downtown Indianapolis. I mean, you can't hunt there, a longgun is not a practical self defense weapon, etc.

I've seen and read the thread about a walk (not a march, not a parade, not a protest) with longguns downtown. So far as I can tell, the only message that will be expressed (though with no signs, with no specific talking points outlined that I could see) is that we have a right to carry longguns in Indiana.

I believe that this is a counter productive effort. I believe that the people don't want longguns downtown. I believe that opening the eyes of the people to the fact that you can carry longguns downtown will result in a new effort to limit what guns can be carried. Then, when I need to take my longgun in for service, I'll have a new set of laws to concern myself with.

I'm all for open carry. Open carry your self defense weapon all day long whereever you want... this has a point. There is purpose. But why a longgun downtown. Why would the people NOT limit that right?

Note: This is not a rant. I am not a troll. I was just talking with some friends this weekend about the march (oh, excuse me, walk), and I couldn't come up with what the purpose of the whole thing is, but could definitely see all of the possible negatives. I hope this thread sparks a conversation on what the merits are of such a (non-protest) walk, rather than continued debate over muzzle direction and sling configuration.

What is a(nother) good way to demonstrate that carrying guns is a right (aka LEEEEEGAL) in Indiana? In Indianapolis?

Print up flyers? Or, have a long gun ON you, not get arrested, and pass out flyers? Or have a shirt on that reads "It's legal to carry guns in Indiana. Protect this right!" Bullhorn? Advertising? Feature-length movie? Celebrity endorsement? Car Wash with bikinis and guns? Op-Ed column? Rent a billboard truck to drive around? Stage a protest/handcuff thing?

Those are some of my thoughts.


Are you nitpicking this ONE idea? Or offering creative solutions yourself?

 

[4sarge]

Not all 30-something pages (a lot of it is off-topic stuff), but I have read the OP and the most recent pages to get a sense of the event as it currently stands.



I look forward to hearing the results of the meeting with IMPD if/when it takes place, and would be interested in seeing what the talking points are for the group.

Shooter 521, Why not help them with talking points, meetings, creative ideas, etc to make this successful. Gun Owners are many times their own worst enemies.

 

[shooter521]

The reason I'm choosing to participate in the walk is to let my local politicians know that one way or another , they will listen and remember they work for me .

A noble goal, but how are your local politicians going to get the message from this "walk"? Are you going to invite them, or send them a letter before or after the fact? If they don't know it is happening, they're not going to care one way or the other.

Do I think it will change anything , no but I have to try .

Ask yourself then, are there other/better ways to spend your time and energy that may have a more direct or significant effect?

I have to know that I've done every peaceful thing I can to try to make a positive change

In your mind, how will participating in this "walk" be a means to that end? An honest question. IMO, the potential for FAIL looms large for this event, so the potential rewards had better be worth that risk. That's all I'm saying.

Carry on.

Gun Owners are many times their own worst enemies.

Funny, I had the exact same thought when you dismissed anyone who questioned this event as a bed-wetting anti-gun-rights troll...

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

To those who don't understand why it's a "walk" instead of a traditional protest , parade , whatever . The gist is this .

We've found out that if it's addressed by certain specific language then you have to jump through political BS hoops and pay money to play .

If it grows and the other pro gun groups choose to attend , we may have to go that route .

SE is working on the meeting with IMPD as we speak and we'll know more of what we can and can't do after wards .

 

[ATF Consumer]

A noble goal, but how are your local politicians going to get the message from this "walk"? Are you going to invite them, or send them a letter before or after the fact? If they don't know it is happening, they're not going to care one way or the other.

That's a great idea...thanks, we'll be sure to let them know.



Ask yourself then, are there other/better ways to spend your time and energy that may have a more direct or significant effect?

Do you have any thoughts?


In your mind, how will participating in this "walk" be a means to that end? An honest question. IMO, the potential for FAIL looms large for this event, so the potential rewards had better be worth that risk. That's all I'm saying.

Carry on.

This is quoted from your website...

NEVER FORGET. NEVER SURRENDER.


As the War on Terror continues with operations underway in Iraq and around the globe, let us not forget that America's enemies, though weakened, still pose a great danger to us here at home. But we are not defenseless! Although no politician will admit it, our Right to Keep and Bear Arms is the most basic - and perhaps the most effective - means of establishing TRUE "homeland security"!


[SIZE=+1]I am a gun owner.[/SIZE]
I am a proud advocate of the civil right to keep and bear arms.
I will not be vilified, demonized, or marginalized by those who would seek to disarm me and leave me defenseless against violent criminals and tyrannical governments.
I advocate individual responsibility. I realize my life is ultimately my own, and that neither the police nor any other party is likely to save me if I'm attacked. I refuse to be a victim. I will not leave my family unprotected.
I realize that guns are inanimate objects, which can be used for good or for ill. But disarmament laws affect mostly honest, law-abiding citizens, not the criminals. I will look the purveyors of pseudo-scientific statistical lies in the eye when I defend my rights. I will not cower before those who harbor bigotry against me.
No, I don't believe the world should operate by the "law of the jungle," nor do I harbor suspicions that every person might be a criminal. Those are just stereotypes in which some take comfort as they seek to discriminate against me. Nor am I a utopian. I don't believe the world will be safe from criminals just because the anti-gun lobby passes legislation declaring "Gun Free Zones" and the like. Not only do disarmament laws not achieve their desired results, but they lead to unintended bad consequences of making honest people more prone to criminal attack. The more people exercise their right to keep and bear arms, the safer is society and the more we can forget about crime and get on with the business of living our lives.
I will not let those who would strip me of my rights forget that I keep them safer, too, because criminals don't know which person might be armed. I will stand tall and defend the American heritage of freedom for which our forefathers pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor.

 

[Boilers]

Perhaps run it by the prosecutor's office as well?

 

[El Cazador]

My option would be:

Or have a shirt on that reads "It's legal to carry guns in Indiana. Protect this right!"

and pass out flyers?

Downtown, with an OC'd handgun.

But hey, good luck. I won't be there. I hope to be dancing closely with an elk and a longbow at that time in the future.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

A noble goal, but how are your local politicians going to get the message from this "walk"? Are you going to invite them, or send them a letter before or after the fact? If they don't know it is happening, they're not going to care one way or the other.
Both local and national media will be alerted when the final details get worked out .


Ask yourself then, are there other/better ways to spend your time and energy that may have a more direct or significant effect?
Are Tea Party's , letters and town hall meetings working so far , I don't believe so . Hopefully the sight of firearms will drive the point home that we're tired of their political BS games .



In your mind, how will participating in this "walk" be a means to that end? An honest question. IMO, the potential for FAIL looms large for this event, so the potential rewards had better be worth that risk. That's all I'm saying. We've discussed the safeguards that we can put in place , such as making sure everyone that carries has a LTCH or can directly vouch for someone else .

Also not stopping to get into a P*****g match with anyone who doesn't agree , simply smile and continue to walk or direct them to one of the designated spoke persons .

Carry on.

.

 

[shooter521]

This is quoted from your website...

But we are not defenseless! Although no politician will admit it, our Right to Keep and Bear Arms is the most basic - and perhaps the most effective - means of establishing TRUE "homeland security"!

Of course I agree with that; I wrote it. Question is, if that's your message, how will this event communicate that to those who most need to hear it - our politicians in the Statehouse and in Washington DC? I suggest inviting the local pols, and drafting some kind of a press release to send to your US Representatives and Senators, both before ("we are holding this event, here's why") and after ("we held this event, here's why, and BTW nobody got hurt or arrested").

If this is not being organized as a political protest/rally/demonstration/parade, you will probably be limited in the ways you can express yourselves. Would wearing matching T-shirts with slogans and/or handing out flyers cross the line? My gut says "probably," but it's a question worth asking at the IMPD meeting.

Hypothetical situation - the walk goes off without a hitch... nobody even notices. Would that be a success, or a failure?

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Perhaps run it by the prosecutor's office as well?

Hopefully the meeting with IMPD will negate the need for this .

 

[bigus_D]

What is a(nother) good way to demonstrate that carrying guns is a right (aka LEEEEEGAL) in Indiana? In Indianapolis?

Print up flyers? Or, have a long gun ON you, not get arrested, and pass out flyers? Or have a shirt on that reads "It's legal to carry guns in Indiana. Protect this right!" Bullhorn? Advertising? Feature-length movie? Celebrity endorsement? Car Wash with bikinis and guns? Op-Ed column? Rent a billboard truck to drive around? Stage a protest/handcuff thing?

Those are some of my thoughts.


Are you nitpicking this ONE idea? Or offering creative solutions yourself?

I'm not trying to nitpick this idea...

My main concern with this non-rally is the message that will be RECEIVED by those observing it. The non-march organization thread says very little about the actual point of the walk. From what I read, and I did try to read all of it over the past few days, is that signs are NOT going to 'allowed'. I saw some diucusion back and forth on this topic, but I gathered that signs will not be carried.

If the message is not being controlled (or even presented) by those walking, the media WILL present whatever message they want. Even if the message is being presented, it will be difficult (or impossible) to control what message is being received by the opposition.

I am not in opposition to protest. I am not in opposition to promoting an agenda. Somebody above provided a link to another thread which outlined the 'point' of this march as re-normalization of our gun rights... If that is the point of the march, then it is my opinion that that message needs to be pushed during the march. A bunch of gun toting right wing nut cases (name calling inserted for humor here ) walking around seemingly aimlessly downtown is not going to, in and of itself, promote a positive discussion and/or the promotion of gun rights in America (IMHO).

 

[ATF Consumer]

Of course I agree with that; I wrote it. Question is, if that's your message, how will this event communicate that to those who most need to hear it - our politicians in the Statehouse and in Washington DC?

It is an effort we are trying...why question it?

If this is not being organized as a political protest/rally/demonstration/parade, you will probably be limited in the ways you can express yourselves. Would wearing matching T-shirts with slogans and/or handing out flyers cross the line? My gut says "probably," but it's a question worth asking at the IMPD meeting.

Hypothetical situation - the walk goes off without a hitch... nobody even notices. Would that be a success, or a failure?

That's a stretch of a hypothetical...I believe any effort is better than no effort at all...

And thank you for your continued support in this effort

 

[MoparMan]

. A bunch of gun toting right wing nut cases (name calling inserted for humor here ) walking around seemingly aimlessly downtown is not going to, in and of itself, promote a positive discussion and/or the promotion of gun rights in America (IMHO).

I agree, might be safer back overseas than anywhere near this so called "walk".

 

[bigus_D]

I would like to thank the INGO community for the negative REP I'm receiving for my attempts open a dialog regarding the method and approach being undertaken.

Thanks!

EDIT: Positive REP points now outweight Negative REP points on this topic... I didn't mean to be rep whoring (hopefully that is a G rated word... not sure) with this post.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

A bunch of gun toting right wing nut cases (name calling inserted for humor here ) walking around seemingly aimlessly downtown is not going to, in and of itself, promote a positive discussion and/or the promotion of gun rights in America (IMHO).

No offense taken , we have and are discussing ways to avoid looking like that .

We're thinking of t-shirts and hats or something of that sort . We'd love to have flags and carry signs but it then becomes a "parade or protest" and then you have a whole bunch of political BS involved .