Let's talk about Medical Marijuana

[360]

Maybe it's because I'm a bass player..........and I really just hate the chorus. Not sure why, it just annoys the living bejesus outta me. I mean "Oooh oooh that smell......can't you smell that smell...." That's just too many smells for me

.........now maybe if it was a Zappa song

I play bass too, but I don't feel that way.

 

[SavageEagle]

Free Bird and Simple Man are my favs from them, personally. However I don't play anything. I do like some rap music, especially BTNH. Take out the lyrics, sit back, close your eyes, and fall asleep.

 

[ATF Consumer]

Everyone...WATCH Jon Stossel tonight at 8 on Fox Business Network...he is covering this very subject about prohibition and the badness it creates.

 

[SavageEagle]

I hope I make it in time!

 

[SavageEagle]

I caught the last 40 minutes. I missed the opening salvo. However, he makes good points. decriminalize it and see what happens.

 

[ATF Consumer]

Yep...the only thing I am actually for prohibiting is the trampling of our Constitution.

 

[trailrider]

wow!! what a popular post? didn't read them all but I vote... LEGALIZE it.. big f*****g deal. I don't want to work with a guy who gets high all the time but I don't have a problem with a guy who gets a buzz when he's home, chores are done, relaxing after a hard day. I also have a problem with drinkers who are hipocrits when it comes to pot smokers. "stoner" is a stereotype. how about anyone who drinks is an "alcoholic". By the way, I'm both for those of you keeping score.

 

[SKSnut]

Much safer than alcohol. if one is legal, both should be legal. Just my

 

[360]

I am bringing this thread back with these two articles for discussion. The first one is a good insight to one of the big questions I had about medical marijuana. Another question I have is firearm ownership with medical marijuana.

Link

Medical pot use can conflict with job rules

By Shelly K. Schwartz, Special from CNBC.com
Medical marijuana is casting a cloud of confusion over Corporate America.

Pot is legal in 14 states as a prescription painkiller, leaving employers struggling to reconcile zero-tolerance drug policies with a patient's right to get high.

Human resources managers are grappling with such questions as whether random drug tests constitute discrimination under the Americans with Disabilities Act, what they are legally allowed to ask job candidates and whether they are required to accommodate after-hours and offsite use of medical marijuana.

"It's throwing employers for a loop," says Alison Holcomb, an attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union in Washington, D.C.

SPECIAL REPORT: Medical marijuana business is on fire
MORE FROM CNBC: Marijuana and Money

That's because many companies have policies that require an employee who tests positive for THC, or Tetrahydrocannabinol (the active ingredient in pot) to be terminated or to participate in some sort of treatment program, even if it's not necessary, she says.

Companies that receive federal contracts are required to prohibit the use of marijuana as a condition of participation under the Drug-Free Workplace Act of 1988. The federal Department of Transportation also issued new guidelines last year that prohibit the use of medical marijuana for transportation workers in safety-sensitive jobs, including pilots, school bus drivers, truck drivers, subway operators and transit armed security, even in states where it is legal.

"It really boils down to this: An employer's right to maintain a drug-free workplace is critical," says Denise Davis, a spokeswoman for the California Chamber of Commerce. "It protects the safety of all workers and limits exposure to potentially costly litigation."

Where does that leave employers and employees?

The law: A moving target

The landmark 2008 Supreme Court ruling in California, involving a systems administrator who was fired for using medical marijuana by Sacramento-based RagingWire Telecommunication (now known as RagingWire Enterprise Solutions) offers the most definitive guidance for employers so far. The court ruled that:

•Drug testing in the state was legal.

•Firing an employee for use of medical marijuana was not tantamount to discrimination.

•Employers are not obligated to accommodate the use of medical marijuana, even outside work.

In other words, while the state's medical marijuana laws protect patients from criminal prosecution, it provides no protection on the job. Pot remains classified as an illegal substance under federal law.

"The California Supreme Court gave carte blanche for employers to discriminate against medical marijuana patients," says Joe Elford, legal counsel for Americans for Safe Access, an advocacy group.

But the door remains open for less rigid interpretation. Currently, seven states that allow medical marijuana have implicit employee protections in place; the law mentions only on-the-job consumption or impairment as grounds for termination. Those are: Colorado, Hawaii, Michigan, Montana, New Jersey, New Mexico and Vermont. Two others, Rhode Island and Maine, have explicit protections for medical marijuana patients written into their legislation.

None has been tested in court.

Legal challenges are underway

The Washington state Supreme Court has agreed to review a case in which a customer service consultant was fired for her legal, at-home use of marijuana.

"We're arguing that firing that patient is a violation of public policy, because it enters the employer into the confidential physician-patient relationship," says the ACLU's Holcomb.

Earlier this year, retail giant Wal-Mart fired a worker in Michigan for using cannabis to alleviate pain related to sinus cancer. The employee claims he never came to work high, but was fired after being tested for drugs.

Human resources departments should tread carefully, contact their legal counsel and adhere to both federal and state laws regarding the use of pot, Holcomb says.

"What I hope is that we'll recognize we don't want to force very ill people to decide they can't avail themselves of this physician-authorized treatment because they can't afford to lose their job," she says. "That's just bad policy, and I don't think most employers want to support that."

Link

Medical marijuana business is on fire

By Rob Reuteman, Special from CNBC.com
DENVER — Medical marijuana dispensaries are springing up in Colorado's major cities like coffee shops, nail parlors, tanning salons or taco shops.

It's been 10 years since Colorado voted to allow the use and sale of marijuana for medical reasons. But in the past six months, the number of patients and dispensaries has skyrocketed.

"This industry is like a bolting horse running out of a stable that's on fire," said Sierra Neblina, owner of the Medimar Haven dispensary in Lakewood, Colo. "We need to get a hold of our own industry."

Denver has some 250 dispensary storefronts and Boulder, Colo., has more than 100. So far, the state has issued more than 66,000 cards that allow holders to purchase medical pot. Card demand is so high that there's a six-month waiting period.

WORKPLACE: Medical pot use can conflict with job rules
EXTENT: How big is the marijuana market?
STATE-BY-STATE: Guide to laws, consumption, costs
MORE FROM CNBC: Marijuana and Money

Now, experts estimate more than 100,000 Coloradans can buy medicinal marijuana legally. On April 1, the Medical Marijuana Registry at the state health department stopped accepting walk-up applications and will only process those sent by mail.

"The changes are necessary due to the explosive growth in the number of medical marijuana applications," said Mark Salley of the Colorado Health Department. He said the number of applications jumped from 270 per workday in August 2009 to about 1,000 in February 2010.

Yet, few see legalized marijuana as a way to boost the economy and create jobs, according to an Associated Press/CNBC poll. About a quarter of those polled said legalized pot would lead to more jobs, but 57% said there would be no effect. Sixty-two percent approve of states taxing the drug, with people in the West more likely to back the idea.

Call it Marijuana Country

Like California, which was the first to OK medical marijuana in 1996, Colorado's marijuana infrastructure and culture are well ahead of the other 12 states that followed.

Though Alaska, Hawaii, Maine, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington allow the practice, they are in various stages of start-up mode.

Similar ballot measures or legislation allowing medical marijuana are pending in 14 more states this year: Alabama, Delaware, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Maryland, Massachusetts, Missouri, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Tennessee and Wisconsin. The City Council of the District of Columbia today considers a bill to allow the sale and use of medical marijuana.

Those states have a lot to learn from California and Colorado. In the Mountain State, the jump in dispensary openings and applications for medical marijuana cards appears to be a direct result of key events — both local and national — that essentially loosened restrictions.

In February 2009, Attorney General Eric Holder said the Drug Enforcement Agency would end raids on state-approved marijuana dispensaries. He said President Obama's election campaign position condoning medical use is "now American policy." Marijuana for non-medical purposes remains illegal.

In July 2009, during a 12-hour hearing in which hundreds testified, the Colorado Board of Health rejected a proposal to limit the number of patients to five that could be served by each caregiver or dispensary. In October, the Obama administration clarified Holder's February statement, telling federal authorities not to arrest or prosecute medical marijuana users and suppliers who aren't violating local laws.

The policy decisions bolstered a business model used by most existing dispensaries, which serve 400 or more patients. And they offered a measure of certainty to investors who are bankrolling the growth in retail outlets.

How it works

To get a medical marijuana card in Colorado, a patient must see a licensed physician who provides written documentation of a "debilitating medical condition." These may include cancer, glaucoma, AIDS or HIV-positive status, seizures, severe pain, severe nausea or severe muscle spasms.

Medical use, according to the law, covers "the acquisition, possession, production, use or transportation of marijuana or paraphernalia related to the administration of such marijuana to address the symptoms." A doctor's visit typically costs about $150 and may consist of a five- to 10-minute conversation.

Some dispensaries host doctors on site. Websites list regular doctors' hours. The state charges a $90 processing fee, and dispensaries usually add notary or other smaller handling charges, for a total patient cost of about $250.

Then there's the product. An ounce of medical marijuana currently costs about $350 and is considered sufficient to last about six weeks for the average patient.

Often, a dispensary offers a discount to a patient, who then lists it as his or her "primary caregiver." A patient may possess up to 2 ounces of pot or six plants for personal use, and a dispensary may have on hand 2 ounces of pot per patient.

A dispensary may provide a grower with its patient list; a grower may house six plants per patient.

Dispensaries, however, are far more than smoking dens. Marijuana is bought and sold in an array of edible forms, such as caramel corn made with marijuana-laced butter, chocolate-covered cherries, rice cake treats and frozen pizzas.

Mile High Ice Cream in Denver makes dozens of flavors with marijuana. There are bottled soft drinks, pills and tinctures.

Dispensaries also sell routine and advanced drug paraphernalia, including pipes, lighters, scented candles and smokeless "delivery systems" called vaporizers, the latter of which can cost several hundred dollars apiece.

Many dispensaries have expanded to offer massage, acupuncture and other alternative healing methods, usually arranging patient appointments and providing operating space for a practitioner.

There's even an industry trade group, the Colorado Wellness Association, formed in October 2009, whose public affairs officer is a former state senator, Bob Hagedorn.

"I've visited about 80 dispensaries in the Denver metro area," Hagedorn said. "I'd say 10% are very serious about the wellness side of things. Fifty percent are interested in moving product. The other 40% is a balance of those two."

Regulatory whiplash

Since medical marijuana started to take off here, state officials have been scrambling to control a largely unregulated industry that is maturing with retail storefronts, prominent advertising and large-scale operations.

In January, the Denver City Council passed a slew of new dispensary regulations aimed at bringing order to industry chaos and revenue to city coffers.

"Six months ago, Denver and Colorado were the Wild West of medical marijuana, with unregulated and untaxed dispensaries opening almost daily and the number of registered patients soaring," said Denver Councilman Charlie Brown, who sponsored the ordinance.

Now, an applicant for a dispensary license must submit a floor plan and security plan and apply for a zoning permit, a sales tax license and a burglar alarm license. Fees top $5,000 annually, plus ongoing sales tax.

Brown said crafting the ordinance was "like trying to pick your teeth with a rattlesnake."

Nearby Boulder passed a similar ordinance in 2009. Dispensaries and marijuana-growing operations there generated nearly $74,000 in sales tax revenue, though most of the estimated 105 businesses didn't open until September or later. (In Los Angeles, the city council is poised to pass regulations aimed at reducing the current 545 dispensaries to about 70, mostly through license fees and zoning.)

"With taxation comes legitimacy," said medical marijuana attorney Rob Corry. "This industry is one of the few that is asking to be taxed and legitimized to join the rest of the business world."

The Colorado Senate is now crafting an additional layer of regulations and fees.

A bill introduced by state Sen. Chris Romer creates new requirements for dispensaries and may institute an excise tax similar to taxes on liquor sales.

"I believe that a highly regulated business structure is required to separate the medical marijuana industry from black market operators," Romer said.

Once state legislation is passed, Romer believes "new business people will quickly enter the market and increase the status and quality of the wellness models."

Jack Cary, a partner in Greenwerkz, a Denver dispensary, agrees. "There is a lot of investment money waiting on the sidelines, investors waiting to see what the rules are, waiting until an investment is not so high-risk," he said.

"Like any gold rush, any boom, there'll be a bust. There will be a shakeout."

 

[SavageEagle]

Some dispensaries host doctors on site. Websites list regular doctors' hours. The state charges a $90 processing fee, and dispensaries usually add notary or other smaller handling charges, for a total patient cost of about $250.

Then there's the product. An ounce of medical marijuana currently costs about $350 and is considered sufficient to last about six weeks for the average patient.

Often, a dispensary offers a discount to a patient, who then lists it as his or her "primary caregiver." A patient may possess up to 2 ounces of pot or six plants for personal use, and a dispensary may have on hand 2 ounces of pot per patient.

If my friend could have gotten away with this years ago, he'd be a RICH man... All he would have needed was a partner that was a doctor...

 

[360]

The funny part is, I asked someone what the current street value is on quality weed and they said about $400 an ounce. One might think in the states where it is legal that you could get it for a fraction of the street price in illegal states. Makes no sense to me.

I wonder if insurance pays for it?

 

[SavageEagle]

The funny part is, I asked someone what the current street value is on quality weed and they said about $400 an ounce. One might think in the states where it is legal that you could get it for a fraction of the street price in illegal states. Makes no sense to me.

I wonder if insurance pays for it?

Depends on what you consider "quality" weed. Top top shelf, yeah, maybe. Just plain good stuff... about $100-150. In my day, anyone paying $400 an OZ was just plain STUPID. The reason being is that G13 (at the time) was a waste of money. You'd HAVE to use a one hitter not to waste it cause that's all it took. A 20 bag would last you a week!

They're talking that 2 ounces should last six weeks. Anyone who's smoked pot knows better. 2 ounces shouldn't last 2 weeks let alone 6. Especially if you have serious pain or other serious health issues like what they claim to prescribe it for. That would be smoking maybe one joint a day MAX. One joint lasts the average smoker about 4-5 hours, maybe a little more. No way. Medical weed would have to be top of the line, Maui Wowi type stuff. Even then that would only last you about 6-7 hours but be a stronger pain killer.

They're just not being realistic or the people making the rules have never smoked a joint in their life.

 

[gohard43]

I'm glad to see the results of this poll! Peoples eyes need to be opened to marijuana! Its not as bad as everyone seems to think

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

They're talking that 2 ounces should last six weeks. Anyone who's smoked pot knows better. 2 ounces shouldn't last 2 weeks let alone 6. Especially if you have serious pain or other serious health issues like what they claim to prescribe it for. That would be smoking maybe one joint a day MAX. One joint lasts the average smoker about 4-5 hours, maybe a little more. No way. Medical weed would have to be top of the line, Maui Wowi type stuff. Even then that would only last you about 6-7 hours but be a stronger pain killer.

I have a friend that is a chronic pain patient in a state where there are medical marijuana laws. She uses a tobacco pipe and says that it only takes her two to three inhalations to take the edge off of her pain levels. She does this ~3 times a day. A bag that big does last her several weeks.

Different types of pain, different pain tolerances and all that.

 

[lashicoN]

This was an awesome thread. Seriously, a very good read. I read all the post and so far, only Evansvillethomsongunner asked about how we go about getting our reps to legalize it.

Anyone here have any ideas? I didn't expect this from INGO. 62% for complete legalization, that's great...and we're the "right". The left certainly supports legalizing pot. Indiana could be the first state to skip the BS and just legalize it, not go through the stages and legalize medical use first, then we'll see what happens. Other states are proving us with the data. So I'll also ask, what is the best way to getting something like this legalized in Indiana?

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

A little bit of GHB in the Senator's drink?

 

[Cemetery-man]

Legalize it!! Go Green! Natural with nature! Pot is less harmful and impairing than alcohol yet we are allowed to publically consume booze. Just make the same laws that apply to alcohol apply to pot.

 

[ISHOOTHST'S]

Legalize it!! Go Green! Natural with nature! Pot is less harmful and impairing than alcohol yet we are allowed to publically consume booze. Just make the same laws that apply to alcohol apply to pot.

+1

 

[MadBomber]

Legalize it!! Go Green! Natural with nature! Pot is less harmful and impairing than alcohol yet we are allowed to publicly consume booze. Just make the same laws that apply to alcohol apply to pot.

It's always struck me as silly that I can buy 2 cases of beer and a gallon of Scotch with no problem but possession of one joint would land me in serious trouble possibly involving a fine, jail-time, and even the loss of a job. It's time we get over the mindless hysteria regarding pot and just legalize it.

 

[mrjarrell]

Reason TV has 3 reasons to legalise it now. Forget about the "medical marijuana" dodge. It should be available for everyone who wants it.
YouTube - 3 Reasons to Legalize Pot Now!