LEO and OC

[BearArms]

I had a conversation with a Ball State Officer the other night and I asked him about his feelings on OC. He was strongly against it and told me if he saw me open carrying that he would make it tedious and whatnot (asking for my LCTH and harassing me during a stop) in order to discourage me from OCing.. Then he asked me why I carry, and I told him for the same reason he does and he was kind of bothered by that and wouldnt agree that it is ultimatly for the same reason. Anyone else have experiences like this with LEO.. Other then me not agreeing with his opinions and whatnot he was a pretty cool dude. IT was a good conversation.

 

[Bigum1969]

You should let him know that if he is willing to be at your side 24-hours a day, 7-days a week you'll leave the gun at home.

 

[BearArms]

You should let him know that if he is willing to be at your side 24-hours a day, 7-days a week you'll leave the gun at home.

I actually did make that comment to him because he brought up CC on campus for the students and how he thought it was stupid.

We will see what kind of stares i get tomorrow when I OC my safarilands ALS to class (empty of course). It is Students for Conceiled Carry on Campus annual week to open carry empty holsters.

 

[Beau]

To bad you didn't record the conversation. He openly admitted to harrasing the public to inflict his personal views againt law abiding citizens.

You should let him know that if he is willing to be at your side 24-hours a day, 7-days a week you'll leave the gun at home.

Still wouldn't leave it at home. The person with the gun is still going to be more worried about defending their life, not yours. And what if he is a bad shot?

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

Bear, I have some experience around BSU officers and yep, it is my experience that they will give a person a hard time any time that a firearm is involved from a polite discussion to a traffic stop. I found BSU PD to not quite be on a power trip about firearm ownership, but the ones that I was around were definitely vocal about wanting an unarmed populace to deal with, no matter if it's on campus or off.

If you do find yourself experiencing some harrassment when you legally carry a firearm, I have a couple of names that I can whisper in your ear to maybe help you out a bit.

And congratulations on joining the SCCC movement to try to get things changed up at BSU. There is another member on INGO that is in a similar situation as you are but at another University that you can PM for networking or ideas for your SCCC organization.

+1 and good on ya, mate!

 

[Dogman]

I wonder if the BSU officer wasn't an officer if he would want to carry.
I've always found it interesting that most Po's that don't think people should carry would want to do so themselves if they were not officer's.
As I explained to an officer long ago people who get their gun permits aren't the one you have to worry about 99.9% of the time. A criminal isn't going to apply for a permit. Also remember most officer's aren't up on handgun laws, so make sure you are and know your rights.

 

[DocGlock86]

I can honestly say that I've never had a Negative run in with LEO. It seems everytime I go and get a soda or gas at a gas station I run into one. They usually just smile and nod at me. I had one spark up a convo with me in line. He asked if I was an off duty cop. I told him no just a 2nd amendment believer. He laughed and said he wished everyone would be, it would drop the crime rate down to almost nothing. I figured most of them realize that most criminals don't show their guns off until they are waving it in someones face.

 

[txgho1911]

Indiana law allows for one party knowledge so record the conversation. The verbal harassment only leads to poor training and is a result in poor training. Embarrassment and expensive compensation for insult may be the only thing to nullify the attitude.

 

[cce1302]

I think you need to just be a sheeple and bow to the wishes of this LEO and all the sheeple around you that are afraid of seeing a firearm. They shouldn't have to look at that sort of thing.
(The above is not my opinion, but my perception of the opinion of several of the members around here. FWIW.)



-I've had conversations with LEOs about OC, too. The one from Mishawaka was very much on the side of OC being legal and acceptable.

 

[Indy317]

I wonder if the BSU officer wasn't an officer if he would want to carry.
I've always found it interesting that most Po's that don't think people should carry would want to do so themselves if they were not officer's.

I have used this with co-workers who are against civilians owning guns, carrying them, or owning assault rifles. I tell them that when they are off the clock, they are civilians and that means they couldn't own an AK, or G3, or anything their department doesn't issue to them. I ask them how they would feel if the need came about to need a rifle and they were on their day off and their rifle was being worked on. Then I ask them if anything is guarented in LE work and they of course say "no." I then say "So your telling me that if you are injured or there are job cuts, you will be turning in all your guns since you will, at that point, be just a civilian." I usually get no response or "Oh, I never thought about that."

 

[4sarge]

I had a conversation with a Ball State Officer the other night and I asked him about his feelings on OC. He was strongly against it and told me if he saw me open carrying that he would make it tedious and whatnot (asking for my LCTH and harassing me during a stop) in order to discourage me from OCing.. Then he asked me why I carry, and I told him for the same reason he does and he was kind of bothered by that and wouldn't agree that it is ultimately for the same reason. Anyone else have experiences like this with LEO.. Other then me not agreeing with his opinions and whatnot he was a pretty cool dude. IT was a good conversation.

IMO this officer has a terrible attitude and/or is improperly trained. As long as a firearm is being legally carried and no law is being violated his/her personal opinion does not matter. BSU has had legal problems in the past with overzealous, under trained officers. Police officers are not paid to harass but to enforce the law uniformly and within legal bounds

UPD OFFICER KILLS STUDENT

Michael McKinney, 21, pronounced dead at Ball Memorial

Originally published: 11/10/03 at 12:00 AM EST
Last update: 2/1/06 at 12:15 PM EST

A Ball State University Police officer with seven months of experience shot and killed a Ball State student early Saturday morning.
Michael S. McKinney, 21, a fourth-year student, was pronounced dead on arrival at Ball Memorial Hospital, Terry Winters, deputy chief of Muncie Police, said.
The officer who shot him, Robert Duplain, 24, is now on administrative leave, University Police Chief Gene Burton said. Burton said UPD is conducting an internal investigation to determine if Duplain acted appropriately, and the Muncie Police Department is handling the criminal aspect of the investigation. No timetable has been set for completion of the investigations.
Winters said UPD officers responded to a report of a burglary at 1325 North St. early Saturday morning. He said Duplain found McKinney in the backyard and yelled for him to freeze. McKinney ran toward the officer with his arms out and wouldn't stop, so Duplain opened fire. Burton said Duplain had identified himself as a police officer.
Burton did not say how many shots were fired or how many times McKinney had been shot, pending the results of this weekend's autopsy. Witnesses say they heard three or four shots.
Burton said this is Duplain's first law-enforcement job. Heather Shupp, executive director of University Communications, said Duplain has completed a 40-hour pre-basic-training course. That includes 24 hours of classroom instruction, eight hours of firearm training and eight hours of physical defensive tactics. Duplain has also completed 14 hours of field training. He is planning to begin attending a police academy in January. Shupp said it is common for young officers to begin work before attending the police academy.
Duplain did not return messages seeking comment.
McKinney's friends gathered together Saturday night and watched the TV news reports. Rich Lentz, McKinney's Delta Chi fraternity brother, said he and others were offended by reports that McKinney -- who Lentz said was about 5-foot-7 -- was aggressive toward the officer.
"That doesn't sound like Mike McKinney," Lentz said. "I don't buy it. He's not an intimidating person by any means."
A suspect's intimidating manner is one of many factors that go into a police officer's decision to use force, Burton said. He said the University Police's Use-of-Force Policy takes into account all sorts of variables that could come together at a crime scene.
"Any variable you could think of would be involved in that," Burton said.
Senior Scott Clark, who has known McKinney -- a marketing major -- since McKinney was a freshman, said McKinney spent his weekends at a house at the corner of Dicks and North streets. McKinney had been out drinking Friday night in the Village, Clark said, and he and his friends believe McKinney may have been drunk enough to think he was trying to get into his friend's house, not a stranger's.
Toxicology reports will not be available for a few weeks, Winters said.
"We think it was a huge misunderstanding," Clark said.

 

[Joe Williams]

I had a conversation with a Ball State Officer the other night and I asked him about his feelings on OC. He was strongly against it and told me if he saw me open carrying that he would make it tedious and whatnot (asking for my LCTH and harassing me during a stop) in order to discourage me from OCing.. Then he asked me why I carry, and I told him for the same reason he does and he was kind of bothered by that and wouldnt agree that it is ultimatly for the same reason. Anyone else have experiences like this with LEO.. Other then me not agreeing with his opinions and whatnot he was a pretty cool dude. IT was a good conversation.

He's going to abuse the power of his badge to enforce what he thinks the law should be instead of what it is? He's a disgrace to the badge, and isn't fit to wear it. He's also going to cost the university a largish chunk of change sooner or later.

He's as entitled to his opinion as any other citizen. He's not entitled to violate other citizens' civil rights to force his opinion on them.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Anyone else have experiences like this with LEO..

Well, now that you mention it, yes!

 

[JPY]

I actually did make that comment to him because he brought up CC on campus for the students and how he thought it was stupid.

We will see what kind of stares i get tomorrow when I OC my safarilands ALS to class (empty of course). It is Students for Conceiled Carry on Campus annual week to open carry empty holsters.

Do you have more info on this organization and this week's "event"? I'm a part-time MBA student at BSU...

 

[jeremy]

And conversations like this are why I really need to acquire a micro recorder!

 

[BearArms]

Do you have more info on this organization and this week's "event"? I'm a part-time MBA student at BSU...

Students for Concealed Carry on Campus - ConcealedCampus.org My prof in my first class today noticed it and smiled..

 

[JPY]

Has the Daily News run anything about this so that students and professors are aware of the protest, or is it up to the participants to explain it when someone asks?

EDIT: I guess it's more of a demonstration than a protest...bad choice of words I think.

 

[BearArms]

Has the Daily News run anything about this so that students and professors are aware of the protest, or is it up to the participants to explain it when someone asks?

I actually contacted them today and asked them to run an article on it.

 

[chasekerion4]

He's as entitled to his opinion as any other citizen. He's not entitled to violate other citizens' civil rights to force his opinion on them.

This statement got me thinking.

I agree this particular officer has no business being a police offier any more than I do. Sounds like he has his own agenda.

Having said that, after reading Joe's statement about having an opinion, it made me think;

Everyone IS entitled to an opinion, but for me, LEO's are not entitled while on the clock, as it related to this. He has no business whatsoever harrassing a LTCH holder or drawing out a traffic stop because he "doesn't like OC". He should probably shut his mouth and ask his superiors for proper training on how to deal with the law abiding public. When training is complete, he should sit behind a desk and shuffle papers.

This sounds harsh, but police officers are to be held to a MUCH higher standard. Know the basics of the laws you enforce or get out of the business. If you don't like your administration's/state's laws, then go flip burgers.

 

[HICKMAN]

He's going to abuse the power of his badge to enforce what he thinks the law should be instead of what it is? He's a disgrace to the badge, and isn't fit to wear it. He's also going to cost the university a largish chunk of change sooner or later.

He's as entitled to his opinion as any other citizen. He's not entitled to violate other citizens' civil rights to force his opinion on them.

damn right

i'd give rep but i'm out