Leaving gun in vehicle at work? Fired

[PKendall317]

My problem is I'm trying to find the Dept. Homeland Security Regs that deal with places like Steel Mill, Elecrical Generating Facilities, and other facilites that are exempt.
I would like to find out about the parking lots.

IC 34-28-7-2
Regulation of employees' firearms and ammunition by employers
Sec. 2. (a) Notwithstanding any other law and except as provided in subsection (b), a person may not adopt or enforce an ordinance, a resolution, a policy, or a rule that:
(1) prohibits; or
(2) has the effect of prohibiting;
an employee of the person, including a contract employee, from possessing a firearm or ammunition that is locked in the trunk of the employee's vehicle, kept in the glove compartment of the employee's locked vehicle, or stored out of plain sight in the employee's locked vehicle.
(b) Subsection (a) does not prohibit the adoption or enforcement of an ordinance, a resolution, a policy, or a rule that prohibits or has the effect of prohibiting an employee of the person, including a contract employee, from possessing a firearm or ammunition:
(1) in or on school property, in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function, or on a school bus in violation of IC 20-33-8-16 or IC 35-47-9-2;
(2) on the property of:
(A) a child caring institution;
(B) an emergency shelter care child caring institution;
(C) a private secure facility;
(D) a group home;
(E) an emergency shelter care group home; or
(F) a child care center;
in violation of 465 IAC 2-9-80, 465 IAC 2-10-79, 465 IAC 2-11-80, 465 IAC 2-12-78, 465 IAC 2-13-77, or 470 IAC 3-4.7-19;
(3) on the property of a penal facility (as defined in IC 35-31.5-2-232);
(4) in violation of federal law;
(5) in or on property belonging to an approved postsecondary educational institution (as defined in IC 21-7-13-6(b));
(6) on the property of a domestic violence shelter;
(7) at a person's residence;

(8) on the property of a person that is:
(A) subject to the United States Department of Homeland Security's Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism Standards issued April 9, 2007; and
(B) licensed by the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission under Title 10 of the Code of Federal Regulations;
(9) on property owned by:
(A) a public utility (as defined in IC 8-1-2-1) that generates and transmits electric power; or
(B) a department of public utilities created under IC 8-1-11.1; or
(10) in the employee's personal vehicle if the employee, including a contract employee, is a direct support professional who:
(A) works directly with individuals with developmental disabilities to assist the individuals to become integrated into the individuals' community or least restrictive environment; and
(B) uses the employee's personal vehicle while transporting an individual with developmental disabilities.

This is from the IC, I have no idea what DHS says about this.

 

[churchmouse]

These rules and exceptions put on the folks that make a company run by those who only shuffle paper and answer to lawyers is why I am an independent contractor. Every service company I have worked for will put you out into the roughest areas with no means of self protection in the pursuit of the dollar. They all had no firearms policy's in company owned vehicles. It was OK for me to put $10,000 in tools and equipment on the truck but no means to protect it or myself. Never released over this but written up on multiple occasions.
Now I write my own policy's...............life is good.

 

[Captain Bligh]

Quick question. The only references to "private secure facility" I can find on google and in the IC refer to basically juvenile detention centers. Is that the same definition they're using here? Or is it something different?

It is the same. See my post #53 above. If you look at the regs, the list immediately above and below "Private Secure Facilities" are all also entities licensed by Department of Child Services.

 

[PKendall317]

Now can someone explain to me under what authority private employers can search your vehicle? The police can't do that without a warrant, consent, or probable cause, so why should a hired security guard or whoever be allowed to do so? I can understand if you work at a place like Eli Lilly or a power plant or something like that, but if you work at an office building or in retail, that doesn't sound like it would hold up in court.

 

[PKendall317]

It is the same. See my post #53 above. If you look at the regs, the list immediately above and below "Private Secure Facilities" are all also entities licensed by Department of Child Services.

So a place that has barbed wire fences and armed security guards wouldn't qualify has a "Private Secure Facility" under IC 34-28-7?

 

[Rock99and9]

Because they say they are exempt, does not mean they are exempt. But I would be sure first. And, it has been mentioned, they can fire you over it, and blame it on something else.
Because they are not based in Indiana. B stinking S. If they come from a state where murder is legal, and they murder someone here, they will be prosecuted. If the plant is here, it must follow Indiana, local, and federal laws and guidelines.

No they are not exempt. Corporate Legal "explained" to her where she was wrong. This was a new HR Manager that took the policy and rewrote it hoping sheeployee's were stupid and would just nod their heads and listen to her. (A lot did and still do I hear.)

I honestly never heard if the based in Indiana part was brought up or not with corporate. The General Manager corrected her on that part during the meeting.

 

[IndyBeerman]

My fellow employee's and I were told our company was exempt from this law two fold when questioned about a new "company policy" stating employee's were subject to termination if weapons or ammunition were found on their persons or vehicles on company property. First they were classified secured because key-cards were required to enter the facility. And they were based out of another state and thus exempt from the Indiana "Law".

We pointed out right away that the parking lot was city owned, not the companies. HR lady actually scratched head when this was pointed out. Then told us we were more than welcome to contact corporate legal if we needed clarification. Which was done and we were told the policy would be amended in it's next printing.

I no longer work there, this was just one reason out of more than enough to separate my self from this type of company.

Does anyone remember when Human Resources was called Personnel Department and they actually worked for the worker?

My company has their own parking lot that you have to use a key card to get into the lot, there is an off duty officer @ the guard shack @ the gate, you must also use a key card to enter the building.

Our company changed it's firearms policy 3 MONTHS in advance to make sure they was not in violation of the bring your firearms to work law, because prior policy forbid firearms on the property.

They knew if they did not change the policy that they would be in violation of state law. Heck a company can not even ask about it, require extra securing of it or force you to notify them of it.

Unless they are a exempt facility, they can not do didly squat if you bring a firearm to work and leave it in your vehicle, if they do, they open themselves up for a lawsuit.

Where do I work.....

Beer distributor.

 

[CathyInBlue]

State law allows public universities to create their own policies.

For now... Just for now.

Now can someone explain to me under what authority private employers can search your vehicle? The police can't do that without a warrant, consent, or probable cause, so why should a hired security guard or whoever be allowed to do so? I can understand if you work at a place like Eli Lilly or a power plant or something like that, but if you work at an office building or in retail, that doesn't sound like it would hold up in court.

They only have that authority if you give it to them. If they ask for the authority and you withhold it, their stated policy is to can you on the spot, which as an at-will employment state, they have the authority to do.

It's like the thread about being approached about OCing in Meijers. They don't have they authority to force you to conceal. They do have the authority to ban you from the premises.

 

[KW730]

For now... Just for now.

I did my part to try and get SB97 through. I must have sent off over 20 emails. Hopefully it gets changed soon enough.

 

[actaeon277]

IC 34-28-7-2
Regulation of employees' firearms and ammunition by employers
Sec. 2. (a) Notwithstanding any other law and except as provided in
.....

This is from the IC, I have no idea what DHS says about this.

Thanks, but I already knew the IC.
I'm trying to find the DHS rules.

 

[Rock99and9]

Now can someone explain to me under what authority private employers can search your vehicle? The police can't do that without a warrant, consent, or probable cause, so why should a hired security guard or whoever be allowed to do so? I can understand if you work at a place like Eli Lilly or a power plant or something like that, but if you work at an office building or in retail, that doesn't sound like it would hold up in court.

I was told by my current employer that it is in the company policy that I signed and agreed to when I was hired. That is what gives them the right to search. Or I agreed to it already. Perhaps this could be the/a reason?

All policies I've read say any Federal, State, or Local Laws do apply though. So maybe you give permission before you are hired. Just the first thing that came to my mind anyway.

My former employer also had in the policy they could search your car parked on the public street and their parking lot, which was owned by the city. I left before that issue was settled. But once again if you agreed to the policy before you start working there??

My argument was I didn't sign the amended policy as it violated Indiana law. But I resigned from the company because fighting them just wasn't worth the headaches anymore and it was only a matter of time they would find something else (actually anything else) to fire me for. It was just a job.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Thanks, but I already knew the IC.
I'm trying to find the DHS rules.

DHS rules don't matter in this context. Indiana state law gives such facilities subject to DHS policies permission to implement rules barring private firearms in private vehicles in the parking lot. Whether or not DHS has rules so barring them is immaterial.

 

[HICKMAN]

As is Eli Lilly also.

I was an employee there for 12 years, carried every single day in my laptop bag until that stupid parking lot law got signed.

Funny how they'd never suspect an I.T. guy was packing.

Concealed means concealed.


I never would have allowed a search without a search warrant.

 

[Rock99and9]

My company has their own parking lot that you have to use a key card to get into the lot, there is an off duty officer @ the guard shack @ the gate, you must also use a key card to enter the building.

Our company changed it's firearms policy 3 MONTHS in advance to make sure they was not in violation of the bring your firearms to work law, because prior policy forbid firearms on the property.

They knew if they did not change the policy that they would be in violation of state law. Heck a company can not even ask about it, require extra securing of it or force you to notify them of it.

Unless they are a exempt facility, they can not do didly squat if you bring a firearm to work and leave it in your vehicle, if they do, they open themselves up for a lawsuit.

Where do I work.....

Beer distributor.

Well yeah, sounds like the management of your employer has bit higher IQ than my former employer. (Wouldn't take much, my favorite thing to do at work was play stump the boss. Two syllable words usually sent them into a fit..)

 

[PKendall317]

For now... Just for now.

They only have that authority if you give it to them. If they ask for the authority and you withhold it, their stated policy is to can you on the spot, which as an at-will employment state, they have the authority to do.

It's like the thread about being approached about OCing in Meijers. They don't have they authority to force you to conceal. They do have the authority to ban you from the premises.

Right on. I'm fairly certain I'm fine where I work. My supervisors aren't gonna search a vehicle themselves, and I'm in a pretty pro-gun area. I love Martintucky!

 

[Whosyer]

Assuming the private facility exemption is defined as I already posted, the only possible way Lilly could be included in this is if they fall under,

Which is a possibility but I have no idea if they do.

DHS chemical manufacturing facility. Not sure about INDY, but I know the Tippy facility received DHS funding for adding security measures to the facility. They also have routine DHS inspections.

 

[stephen87]

Mill policy is if it is on their property, they can search it.
Refusal to allow a search, is grounds for immediate dismissal.
They randomly search cars going in and out of the facility.
Cars parked on the outside of the fence (but still on property) are subject to search, but rarely are. However, if a guard notices a cooler (could be alcohol), or any gun/ammunition accessories; they will call you to search.
If you are removed from the plant, they may search your car.




Because they say they are exempt, does not mean they are exempt. But I would be sure first. And, it has been mentioned, they can fire you over it, and blame it on something else.
Because they are not based in Indiana. B stinking S. If they come from a state where murder is legal, and they murder someone here, they will be prosecuted. If the plant is here, it must follow Indiana, local, and federal laws and guidelines.



Reasons stated why they are allowed to search by employees.

If you are removed and no longer an employee, that would mean that they have no connection to you and you can legally tell them to eff off. If they search your car after that, it would be illegal and subject to all applicable laws.

 

[dansgotguns]

If you are removed and no longer an employee, that would mean that they have no connection to you and you can legally tell them to eff off. If they search your car after that, it would be illegal and subject to all applicable laws.

Nope they will say they are looking for stolen property

 

[stephen87]

Nope they will say they are looking for stolen property

If you're looking for stolen property, call the police. They'll still tell them unless I consent, they need a warrant.

 

[wolfy2]

Dan,have you been down this road? Or was this covered in training?