Kut's Trump Approval Thread #1 (Starts Out at 100%)

[churchmouse]

The Watchers.........

 

[BugI02]

Why do you ontinue to justify one wrong because of another wrong? Why can't you just admit any wrong is just plain wrong?

We're waiting for you to show us how it's done?

 

[BugI02]

Can I get a cite to the statute you are referencing? Thx.

11 CFR 110.20 (a)(7)(b)

(b)Contributions and donations by foreign nationals in connection with elections. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.

 

[IndyDave1776]

11 CFR 110.20 (a)(7)(b)

Sounds like a cash value standard to me. Ms. Russia didn't hand Trump Jr. a dime.

 

[T.Lex]

Sounds like a cash value standard to me. Ms. Russia didn't hand Trump Jr. a dime.

It is not. "Or other thing of value" can, in other contexts, include information. Or sex.

 

[KLB]

It is not. "Or other thing of value" can, in other contexts, include information. Or sex.

Contribute or donate sex? I'd have to see the person donating to determine if there is any value in it.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

A "thing of value" and "anything of value" appear literally hundreds of times throughout the federal code (i.e. US law), so it is not a new question. Prior to OhMyGodButButTrump!, information was not considered "anything of value".

https://definitions.uslegal.com/a/anything-of-value/

But, OhMyGodButButTrump! , so let's all lose our everlasting minds and make **** up!

Because of course, every campaign ever has reported every political tip they've ever received on their FEC campaign contribution forms because it's well established that political oppo research information is a "thing of value". Right? DECIDEDLY NOT!!! NOT EVER!

Has anyone seen a cite of case law establishing that political information is a LEGAL "thing of value"? Anyone? Anyone?

Buehler? Buehler? Buehler?

 

[T.Lex]

Because of course, every campaign ever has reported every political tip they've ever received on their FEC campaign contribution forms because it's well established that political oppo research information is a "thing of value". Right? DECIDEDLY NOT!!! NOT EVER!

Has anyone seen a cite of case law establishing that political information is a LEGAL "thing of value"? Anyone? Anyone?

Buehler? Buehler? Buehler?

I'm not sure what that internet definition is based on but...

Indiana Code Title 24. Trade Regulation § 24-2-3-2 | FindLaw

"Trade secrets" includes "information" that has an economic value from not being known.

But, don't just trust me, look at the FEC direction on this prior to the current debacle.

https://www.fec.gov/updates/foreign-nationals/

Now, the important part here is a bit of a different emphasis - and that is foreign nationals working with political candidates.

Commission regulations prohibit foreign nationals from directing, dictating, controlling, or directly or indirectly participating in the decision-making process of any person (such as a corporation, labor organization, political committee, or political organization) with regard to any election-related activities. Such activities include, the making of contributions, donations, expenditures, or disbursements in connection with any federal or nonfederal elections in the United States, or decisions concerning the administration of any political committee.

(Bold added by me.)

Further, FEC determination (sorta) that a document that consisted of information regarding state political contacts was (sorta) a thing of value, but one that should not be pursued.

https://www.fec.gov/resources/about-fec/commissioners/toner/sor/sormur5409.pdf

That's actually an interesting situation at several levels. Some of which support your assertion; some of which don't.

ETA:
Check out footnote 50.
http://eqs.fec.gov/eqsdocsMUR/15044374076.pdf

Includes conjugal visits.

bow chicka bow bow

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I'm not sure what that internet definition is based on but...

Indiana Code Title 24. Trade Regulation § 24-2-3-2 | FindLaw

"Trade secrets" includes "information" that has an economic value from not being known.

But, don't just trust me, look at the FEC direction on this prior to the current debacle.

https://www.fec.gov/updates/foreign-nationals/

Now, the important part here is a bit of a different emphasis - and that is foreign nationals working with political candidates.


(Bold added by me.)

Further, FEC determination (sorta) that a document that consisted of information regarding state political contacts was (sorta) a thing of value, but one that should not be pursued.

https://www.fec.gov/resources/about-fec/commissioners/toner/sor/sormur5409.pdf

That's actually an interesting situation at several levels. Some of which support your assertion; some of which don't.

None of the cases established that the "information" itself of intrinsic value. Quite the opposite. That's why, for example, employers require employees to sign a Non-disclosure Agreement to establish that information is valuable and disclosure of the information is actionable.

If you run against someone else for dogcatcher in Podunkville population 47, SOMEONE will come out of the woodwork with "Did you know your opponent did X! Gasp!" I think you would be hard-pressed to find a contested election anywhere in the country, at any level, where each major candidate did not receive such "tips". Which, if they are "things of value" would require some level of reporting such "donations".

Doesn't happen because they are not.

 

[T.Lex]

None of the cases established that the "information" itself of intrinsic value. Quite the opposite. That's why, for example, employers require employees to sign a Non-disclosure Agreement to establish that information is valuable and disclosure of the information is actionable.

If you run against someone else for dogcatcher in Podunkville population 47, SOMEONE will come out of the woodwork with "Did you know your opponent did X! Gasp!" I think you would be hard-pressed to find a contested election anywhere in the country, at any level, where each major candidate did not receive such "tips". Which, if they are "things of value" would require some level of reporting such "donations".

Doesn't happen because they are not.

Did you see the edit with the fn. 50?

I'll concede it is technical violation that is rarely enforced. But, that does not make it a non-violation.

And, in the context of information/thing of value from a foreign national, it becomes a different issue.

Now, to be clear, there is more smoke with this than fire. The foreign national at issue DIDN'T ACTUALLY HAVE information of value.

In fact, the setup to this almost makes it look like a political sting designed to get the Trump campaign into the exact trick bag that they now find themselves in. It just took longer than expected for it to come to fruition.

 

[Route 45]

In fact, the setup to this almost makes it look like a political sting designed to get the Trump campaign into the exact trick bag that they now find themselves in. It just took longer than expected for it to come to fruition.

Hmmm.....you dont' say.

Russian Lawyer Who Met with Donald Trump Jr. Worked With Democrats For Years

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Did you see the edit with the fn. 50?

First, not information. Second, not a court, but a politically appointed FEC comission. Third, they found against. With good reason... "coercing" police, uniformed military, etc. to stand behind the president would then be far worse violations of state/federal laws prohibiting such entities from making campaign contributions. So, yeah, it's wrong, but not illegal.

I'll concede it is technical violation that is rarely enforced. But, that does not make it a non-violation.

And I'd say none... because, if fully adjudicated, it would be found to 1) not be in the law, and 2) even if it were, to be a unconstitutional restriction of freedom of speech and association.

And, in the context of information/thing of value from a foreign national, it becomes a different issue.

More restrictive laws govern what a foreign national may not do, but it doesn't change the meaning of a "thing of value".

Now, to be clear, there is more smoke with this than fire. The foreign national at issue DIDN'T ACTUALLY HAVE information of value.

In fact, the setup to this almost makes it look like a political sting designed to get the Trump campaign into the exact trick bag that they now find themselves in. It just took longer than expected for it to come to fruition.

Could be, but I don't buy it. Unless something new comes up, I think she really wanted face time to talk about the adoption ban and sanctions, and used the "dirt" as a ruse to get that face time.

And, Don, Jr's naivete not to "know a guy who knows a guy" to take the meeting at double-arm's length, the way all "seasoned politicians" do it. Lol! Yes, they sure as hell take the meeting... but not themselves!

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Hmmm.....you dont' say.

Russian Lawyer Who Met with Donald Trump Jr. Worked With Democrats For Years

Sure, it could be a conspiracy... but more likely, for years she has been talking about the Magnitsky Act and adoption ban with anyone who would sit still long enough to listen. Trump and company, being new in town, hadn't heard her pitch yet. Then, it was just a matter of her figuring out someone who knew the Trumps (the singer and publicist) and some pretext for them to actually take the meeting (dirt) so she could deliver her spiel.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Hmmm.....you dont' say.

Russian Lawyer Who Met with Donald Trump Jr. Worked With Democrats For Years

So the excuse is that the Democrats set up Trump Jr, because they knew he was stupid? Lol.... I'm going to have a shot of snapps for that one (and it seems plausible, lol). Prost!

Kut (loves the stupidly defense)

 

[indiucky]

So the excuse is that the Democrats set up Trump Jr, because they knew he was stupid? Lol.... I'm going to have a shot of snapps for that one (and it seems plausible, lol). Prost!

Kut (loves the stupidly defense)

You misspelled Zima Kut.....(Oh and maybe "arrogant" or "ignorant" instead of "stupid"...It hurts to see you less gentlemanly than you normally are...)

 

[Kutnupe14]

Sure, it could be a conspiracy... but more likely, for years she has been talking about the Magnitsky Act and adoption ban with anyone who would sit still long enough to listen. Trump and company, being new in town, hadn't heard her pitch yet. Then, it was just a matter of her figuring out someone who knew the Trumps (the singer and publicist) and some pretext for them to actually take the meeting (dirt) so she could deliver her spiel.

An adoption pitch with an unknown in the middle of the campaign that hadnt even been determined? It would great to see comrade lawyer show documentation of her attempt to speak with the Clinton campaign...but don't hold your breath.

 

[Kutnupe14]

You misspelled Zima Kut.....(Oh and maybe "arrogant" or "ignorant" instead of "stupid"...It hurts to see you less gentlemanly than you normally are...)

No Zima in Berlin. But I did get them to stock Makers and JD.

 

[indiucky]

Does anyone think that Russian Lawyer is kind of hot in a cold war spy kind of way??? Maybe a little????

 

[indiucky]

No Zima in Berlin. But I did get them to stock Makers and JD.

You the man brother....Got Kentucky and Tennessee covered....

Your brother doing good???? Snookering any ladies into thinking you are a movie star, pro athlete, Hip Hop Mogul, or are you just going with the "International Man of Mystery" ploy????

"Girl I could tell you why I am in Berlin...But then I would have to kill you...With kindness...."

 

[Kutnupe14]

Does anyone think that Russian Lawyer is kind of hot in a cold war spy kind of way??? Maybe a little????

Totally. She could serve me wodka, as she squeezed me to death with her legs. I'd die happy.