Just took this course this weekend. Video

[HICKMAN]

the original title operator was given to those who past selection and OTC-Operator training course now most under JSOC and ODA use it.......its a title

haven't dealt with any delta guys, but all of the retired/active/reserve Army SOCOM guys I've dealt with have been the most professional people I've ever met.

 

[Paul Gomez]

I've seen way to much spall off of metal drums to ever use them for simulated cover, particularly without eye protection. The execution of technique shown in that video is, at a minimum, sloppy [as regards the drawstroke] and, in some cases, such as the close quarters shooting, unworkable in less than ideal circumstances.

 

[Fenway]

ohh snap... This thread just got some "Delta"

haven't dealt with any delta guys

 

[bwframe]

...what do you want to see

Not much , just a little something that you and...

lol

...can back up all that superior training talk with.

You guys address as though you are instructors. I'm sure I'm not the only one to ask that you back up the talk with a bit of evidence. Something like this would be good:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...consultants/192413-a_taste_of_what_we_do.html

Don't do it for me though. Do it for yourselves. It will give you credibility.
Even if the OP's video drew some criticism, at least they had the nads to post it up. Credit is deserved for that.

 

[HICKMAN]

I've always hoped we see more of our combat vets get in to becoming trainers or providing input to training, if anything to learn from their experience, both good and bad.

We all know lots have changed in the military over the last ten years, many lessons learned the hard way.

 

[the1kidd03]

No Ego at all, what it is is the instructors duty to make sure all students get good corrective actions i would have stopped at least 5 people in that clip at various times to correct said actions they were doing

we as Inst can get people killed faster by giving them bad info and bad skills and false hope than the better

is what im saying i have no Ego involved in this because i don't what i do have is a vested interest in seeing get good proper training that can save there life not a roller coaster ride for fun.... sorry if this isn't popular

tell me how many of those in the video would be deploying a carbine from there car wearing kit? and what skills were gained from it or the guy using freaking SUl improperly getting out of the car with a handgun sweeping him himself?

there is saying i use often. that i came up with at class last year

"we can teach you the things we would want to be taught but rather we need to teach you the things u need to be learn"

agreed with everything you said...and good "saying" BTW....indeed there were some corrections that need to be made....what started this whole thing was that I pointed out that ear pro is not always necessary, but recommended...I wasn't clear in my earlier posts and I think that got us entirely off track......I think we're all on the same page pretty much.....the ego comment wasn't necessarily directed at you, although it may have seemed like you got defensive a time or two I don't believe I specifically directed anything towards you, if so I apologize

 

[the1kidd03]

Speaking of ......maybe fireblade and the1kidd03 should post up some video of themselves in training. Not saying they might be 12 year old's in mom's basement, but this is the Internet.

Nearly everyone else in this thread, I have either trained with and, or seen video of in training.

I'm talking video, not irrelevant pictures.

no offense, but I don't feel the need to prove myself to random people I don't know or necessarily have intentions of knowing.......additionally, I don't even own a video camera and I assure you I haven't been in my teens for well over a decade....I think between my choice in vocabulary, and demonstrated knowledge of firearms and military on this thread as well as several others has more than served for "evidence" of my age beyond adolescence...but if not...I don't really care.....my training partner and I may be heading out to the woods this weekend to do some survival camping and practice some E&E, tracking, and concealment....I think I can get my hands on a digital camera and if I'm able to go I already thought about posting an AAR for the forum

 

[HICKMAN]

we have more in common that not, this thread just got derailed, some of it at my doing.

 

[the1kidd03]

Guys, the lack of eye protection is only one aspect of some sketchy actions shown in the video. This whole "what the high speed MIL types do or don't do" discussion is irreverent. This was not a high speed ninja class.

The glass shooting looks fun, but as someone who has shot a ton of auto glass, I know from experience it makes a huge shower of glass particles inside the car. Watching the guy take a deep breath right after shooting a window made me cringe. Maybe he was told to hold his breath and maybe he just didn't listen. I don't know. But it's not bright to sit inside a car while shooting out windows while breathing normally.

The gun handling seems to have no awareness of muzzle orientation. Students pointed guns at other students, camera men and themselves. The part that makes me wonder is that nobody seemed to be stopping them from doing it or correcting them after they did it.

I agree with Steve that unless there's a 40 foot berm behind those targets, all that supine shooting was sending rounds lord-knows-where. Again, I don't know the range setup so maybe there is a really big berm or maybe there's nothing that direction for 5 miles....

there were a lot of aspects in the video that need correcting....I think it's safe for us to assume that the students in the video very likely have had no prior training...and in their eyes probably feel like they had an excellent course at an excellent price......I think if anything, those putting on this course should be reached and invited here to get feedback and learn better methods.............could only catch a quick glimpse of the area but it just seemed to appear that there was at leat 100 yards of open field in any direction....couldn't really see anything beyond that.....

 

[the1kidd03]

we have more in common that not, this thread just got derailed, some of it at my doing.

I think it is at some of everyone's doing.....it seemed to start after my comment of not wearing ear pro can provide additional realism to training...however, I didn't make it clear that I was referring to EAR pro and so it just lead the way to "delta farce" and all this other BS

 

[the1kidd03]

Not much , just a little something that you and...

...can back up all that superior training talk with.

You guys address as though you are instructors. I'm sure I'm not the only one to ask that you back up the talk with a bit of evidence. Something like this would be good:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...consultants/192413-a_taste_of_what_we_do.html

Don't do it for me though. Do it for yourselves. It will give you credibility.
Even if the OP's video drew some criticism, at least they had the nads to post it up. Credit is deserved for that.

I've always hoped we see more of our combat vets get in to becoming trainers or providing input to training, if anything to learn from their experience, both good and bad.

We all know lots have changed in the military over the last ten years, many lessons learned the hard way.

Actually, a close friend and myself have been doing a lot of research in recent months.....previously with intentions of opening an all around indoor training center/firing range....but recently coming home from active service and not putting my education to real use hasn't exactly left me a "nest egg" to invest with...and so the range facility is likely out of the question at this time...and so we've moved on to devising specialized curriculum, partnering with Simunition and just offering training services....I am finishing my double bachelor's currently, one half of which is Organizational Leadership focusing on training and ethics and this combined with work takes up a lot more time than I wish it had to.......the biggest challenge for us is to "transition" the nature of our skills into something useful for civilians.....(i.e. knowing how to track a man in the wilderness isn't going to be of much use to a civilian in the city..lol)...we are working at it but with the little time that I have progess is slow........and my partner is....well.....let's just say he's a jarhead.....good at what he does, but he's not exactly a well spoken business/customer service professional.....don't get me wrong we put our lives in each other's hands a number of times and I trust him...and he's trained many grunts....but he's just not really "friendly business minded" kind of a guy...lol

 

[bwframe]

no offense, but I don't feel the need to prove myself to random people I don't know or necessarily have intentions of knowing....

... intentions of opening an all around indoor training center/firing range...

So which is it?
Or maybe it's just your intent to keep trying to dominate training threads with long non-punctuated, difficult to read, posts?

 

[latham17]

Just a question: why were there so many people without any eye protection in the video?

rhino-you are such a freaking douche! why is it that you find every possible way to publicly bash your competition? Do you honestly think we aren't smart enough to see what you are doing? Stop the BS, people like you are the main reason this website sucks!!!

 

[rhino]

rhino-you are such a freaking douche! why is it that you find every possible way to publicly bash your competition? Do you honestly think we aren't smart enough to see what you are doing? Stop the BS, people like you are the main reason this website sucks!!!

Is this a joke?

I don't even know where to start with what you said above. Good luck resolving whatever personal issues you seem to have.

 

[the1kidd03]

So which is it?
Or maybe it's just your intent to keep trying to dominate training threads with long non-punctuated, difficult to read, posts?

I have no need to prove myself to you, or anyone......I couldn't care less what you, or anyone else thinks of me because I don't know you and have no intentions to ....

if you find my posts hard to read simply due to time consuming punctuation, then don't read them.....the arrogance you present here is exactly what detracts from an otherwise good website, and why a LOT of people I've talked to hate this forum and choose not to take part in it and why I've chosen not to be a site supporter

my previous post was aimed at responding to Hickmann.....I simply included you because of your incessant need to have "street cred" with your little clique....thought maybe it would put an end to the arrogant ego...but obviously was wrong

 

[the1kidd03]

Is this a joke?

I don't even know where to start with what you said above. Good luck resolving whatever personal issues you seem to have.

lol I thought maybe you knew him you didn't seem to present any undue attitude or irrelevant critiicism that I can remember

 

[bwframe]

I don't even know where to start with what you said above.

Obviously, it's you and me that make this forum suck! A LOT of people hate it. Haven't you heard?

 

[lovemachine]

rhino-you are such a freaking douche!

Rhino's new signature line?

 

[VUPDblue]

rhino-you are such a freaking douche! why is it that you find every possible way to publicly bash your competition? Do you honestly think we aren't smart enough to see what you are doing? Stop the BS, people like you are the main reason this website sucks!!!

In the immortal words of the badguy from tombstone, "well, bye".

ETA: you just cannot seem to have any type of conversation without getting all worked up and slinging insults. you should have been banned the last time you got all riled up when RDT posted their plagiarised website and this forum called them out on it. It's OK that you're a fanboi of theirs but if I were them I'd not want such a hot head speaking for me. from INGO to you, farewell and goodbye.

 

[lovemachine]

I never did understand why so many people don't wear eye protection. It's not that difficult to put on. For most people anyway.