Judge Scalia RIP

[BugI02]

I've been following this thread since I heard the news on Justice Scalia. I have been trepidatious to throw in my . There's a lot of anger here, and I get it. I'm scared for our country, too.

I've been on the fence as to my vote for our next President. I can't in good conscience support Trump. Because of this, while he's the front runner, I've considered the democratic candidates strongly. There was a breath of fresh air when Trump lost Iowa and it looked like I might get to vote for a Republican!

The vacant Supreme Court seat makes this election all the more important (and again, scary). What do I do if the seat is vacant come election, and Trump is on the ticket?

You look deep into your soul and decide which is worse, Trump or Hitlery or Lenin-lite. YOU make the choice and you are responsible (in part) for the consequences

 

[ziggy]

This marks the passing of a giant in defending the U.S. Constitution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonin_Scalia

http://www.biography.com/people/antonin-scalia-9473091#synopsis

 

[jamil]

So Arnold Schwarzenegger should be eligible for president, since he is a naturalized US citizen?

Natural born is required by the constitution, so yes, there is a different class of citizen.

No. Arnold isn't a citizen by birth. He is a citizen by naturalization. So therefore he is not eligible to be president.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Rafael was elected to the senate in 2012, he renounced his Canadian citizenship in 2014.

You tell me?

Keeping with the thread, I find it strange that the leading constitutional authority just happens to be found dead with a pillow over his face, unwrinkled clothes, and with no autopsy being performed. But I guess some circles would consider me crazy.

Correct, because his mom was American. Just like Obama. Cruz was born in Calgary. There are many constitutional scholars that are arguing the what the term "natural born citizen" means. I have always held it t the highest standard that one has to be born on US soil. This was the same argument many had for why Obama was not legally eligible to become president.

Emmerich de Vattel was the author of the definitive textbook on government at the time of the Constitutional Convention. Washington is on record as having borrowed a copy from the British Parliament for the occasion. It clearly addresses the subject, and leaves neither Cruz nor Obama eligible to be president even before we consider statements from both Obama's grandmother and Obama himself declaring him to have been born in Kenya. Needless to say, he changed his story when he considered running for president, but, as I said, even if born in Hawaii, he did not meet the definition of 'natural born citizen' as understood and intended by our founders. The fact that this is clear in history and kept buried stands in hard evidence that the definition of 'natural born citizen' and the suggestion that it is fluid by virtue of the Constitution not having its own glossary installed at the end is thoroughly spurious and stands analogous with the "definition of 'is'" writ large.

You will notice the reference to 'parents' in the plural applied here, as well as specific reference to the national allegiance of the child's father.

CHAP. XIX.
OF OUR NATIVE COUNTRY, AND SEVERAL THINGS THAT RELATE TO IT.

§ 211. What is our country.

THE whole of the countries possessed by a nation and subject to its laws, forms, as we have already said, its territory, and is the common country of all the individuals of the nation. We have been obliged to anticipate the definition of the term, native country (§ 122), because our subject led us to treat of the love of our country — a virtue so excellent and so necessary in a state. Supposing, then, this definition already known, it remains that we should explain several things that have a relation to this subject, and answer the questions that naturally arise from it.

§ 212. Citizens and natives.

The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.

§ 213. Inhabitants.

The inhabitants, as distinguished from citizens, are foreigners, who are permitted to settle and stay in the country. Bound to the society by their residence, they are subject to the laws of the state while they reside in it; and they are obliged to defend it, because it grants them protection, though they do not participate in all the rights of citizens. They enjoy only the advantages which the law or custom gives them. The perpetual inhabitants are those who have received the right of perpetual residence. These are a kind of citizens of an inferior order, and are united to the society without participating in all its advantages. Their children follow the condition of their fathers; and, as the state has given to these the right of perpetual residence, their right passes to their posterity.

§ 214. Naturalization.(58)

A nation, or the sovereign who represents it, may grant to a foreigner the quality of citizen, by admitting him into the body of the political society. This is called naturalization. There are some states in which the sovereign cannot grant to a foreigner all the rights of citizens, — for example, that of holding public offices — and where, consequently, he has the power of granting only an imperfect naturalization. It is here a regulation of the fundamental law, which limits the power of the prince. In other states, as in England and Poland, the prince cannot naturalize a single person, without the concurrence of the nation, represented by its deputies. Finally, there are states, as, for instance, England, where the single circumstance of being born in the country naturalizes the children of a foreigner.

§ 215. Children of citizens born in a foreign country.

It is asked whether the children born of citizens in a foreign country are citizens? The laws have decided this question in several countries, and their regulations must be followed.(59) By the law of nature alone, children follow the condition of their fathers, and enter into all their rights (§ 212); the place of birth produces no change in this particular, and cannot, of itself, furnish any reason for taking from a child what nature has given him; I say "of itself," for, civil or political laws may, for particular reasons, ordain otherwise. But I suppose that the father has not entirely quitted his country in order to settle elsewhere. If he has fixed his abode in a foreign country, he is become a member of another society, at least as a perpetual inhabitant; and his children will be members of it also.

§ 216. Children born at sea.

As to children born at sea, if they are born in those parts of it that are possessed by their nation, they are born in the country: if it is on the open sea, there is no reason to make a distinction between them and those who are born in the country; for, naturally, it is our extraction, not the place of our birth, that gives us rights: and if the children are born in a vessel belonging to the nation, they may be reputed born in its territories; for, it is natural to consider the vessels of a nation as parts of its territory, especially when they sail upon a free sea, since the state retains its jurisdiction over those vessels. And as, according to the commonly received custom, this jurisdiction is preserved over the vessels, even in parts of the sea subject to a foreign dominion, all the children born in the vessels of a nation are considered as born in its territory. For the same reason, those born in a foreign vessel are reputed born in a foreign country, unless their birth took place in a port belonging to their own nation; for, the port is more particularly a part of the territory; and the mother, though at that moment on board a foreign vessel, is not on that account out of the country. I suppose that she and her husband have not quitted their native country to settle elsewhere.

§ 217. Children born in the armies of the state.

For the same reasons also, children born out of the country, in the armies of the state, or in the house of its minister at a foreign court, are reputed born in the country; for a citizen who is absent with his family, on the service of the state, but still dependent on it, and subject to its jurisdiction, cannot be considered as having quitted its territory.

§ 218. Settlement.

Settlement is a fixed residence in any place, with an intention of always staying there. A man does not, then, establish his settlement in any place, unless he makes sufficiently known his intention of fixing there, either tacitly or by an express declaration. However, this declaration is no reason why, if he afterwards changes his mind, he may not transfer his settlement elsewhere. In this sense, a person who stops at a place upon business, even though he stay a long time, has only a simple habitation there, but has no settlement. Thus, the envoy of a foreign prince has not his settlement at the court where he resides.

The natural, or original settlement, is that which we acquire by birth, in the place where our father has his; and we are considered as retaining it, till we have abandoned it, in order to choose another. The acquired settlement (adscititium) is that where we settle by our own choice.

§ 219. Vagrants.

Vagrants are people who have no settlement. Consequently, those born of vagrant parents have no country, since a man's country is the place where, at the time of his birth, his parents had their settlement (§ 122), or it is the state of which his father was then a member, which comes to the same point; for, to settle for ever in a nation, is to become a member of it, at least as a perpetual inhabitant, if not with all the privileges of a citizen. We may, however, consider the country of a vagrant to be that of his child, while that vagrant is considered as not having absolutely renounced his natural or original settlement.

Oh, and while I am at it, I could also point out that this punts 'anchor babies' right back across the southern border.

 

[Expat]

And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens: Provided, that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States:

This is from the Naturalization Act of 1790. It was replaced by subsequent Acts but I think it gives us an idea as to what the Founders would have intended by the phrase "natural born". I take that to ask the question, was Cruz's father ever a resident in the United States? As I understand it, his mother was a citizen.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

https://mises.org/blog/abolish-supreme-court

This makes some points. We are way too progressive to ever consider any other form or function of the court though.

 

[Route 45]

SCOTUS analyst: Loretta Lynch 'most likely candidate' to replace Scalia | MSNBC

Well Constitution, it's been nice knowing you.

The Senate will confirm her. They've already confirmed her for Attorney General once. What reason do they have to refuse to confirm someone that has already been vetted once? Can the GOP be seen pulling out all the stops to stop the appointment of the nation's first black woman to the Supreme Court?

Marco is right. Obama knows exactly what he is doing.

 

[Kutnupe14]

The Senate will confirm her. They've already confirmed her for Attorney General once. What reason do they have to refuse to confirm someone that has already been vetted once? Can the GOP be seen pulling out all the stops to stop the appointment of the nation's first black woman to the Supreme Court?

Marco is right. Obama knows exactly what he is doing.

Ugh Lynch? That's a horrible choice.

 

[mammynun]

I for one refuse to participate in tactical voting. I vote for the individual that I feel is best suited for the job. If I feel nobody is up to the task I walking into my polling place and turn in a blank balot. Obtaining is a valid choice. If this race turns into Hillary v. Trump I won't be checking either. Hopefully the libertarians kick up somebody decenot this year.

If all politics is local, wouldn't all voting be tactical?

 

[Punkinhead]

Keeping with the thread, I find it strange that the leading constitutional authority just happens to be found dead with a pillow over his face, unwrinkled clothes, and with no autopsy being performed. But I guess some circles would consider me crazy.

You're not crazy. When a 79 year old morbidly obese man dies in his sleep the only logical conclusion is a murder conspiracy.

 

[Tombs]

You're not crazy. When a 79 year old morbidly obese man dies in his sleep the only logical conclusion is a murder conspiracy.

What country do you come from where sleeping with a pillow over your face is common practice?

 

[Punkinhead]

What country do you come from where sleeping with a pillow over your face is common practice?

Exactly. Something evil is afoot.

 

[2A_Tom]

Correct, because his mom was American. Just like Obama. Cruz was born in Calgary. There are many constitutional scholars that are arguing the what the term "natural born citizen" means. I have always held it t the highest standard that one has to be born on US soil. This was the same argument many had for why Obama was not legally eligible to become president.

This is from the Naturalization Act of 1790. It was replaced by subsequent Acts but I think it gives us an idea as to what the Founders would have intended by the phrase "natural born". I take that to ask the question, was Cruz's father ever a resident in the United States? As I understand it, his mother was a citizen.

One problem with Obama was that his mother "supposedly" renounced her citizenship.

 

[ghuns]

What reason do they have to refuse to confirm someone that has already been vetted once?

Because confirming someone to be attorney general is a very different thing than confirming someone for the supreme court.

 

[KG1]

I sleep with a hefty bag over my head and cinch tied around my neck. Sometimes I don't hear the alarm clock and I'm late for work.

 

[Punkinhead]

I sleep with a hefty bag over my head and cinch tied around my neck. Sometimes I don't hear the alarm clock and I'm late for work.

You're lucky you don't wake up dead!

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I sleep with a hefty bag over my head and cinch tied around my neck. Sometimes I don't hear the alarm clock and I'm late for work.

I hate it when that happens.

 

[ghuns]

Wanna hear a scary story?

Obama nominates Lynch. Republicans vote down her nomination. They lose the Senate and Hillary wins. Hillary nominates Obama.

How's that for a worst case scenario?

 

[Tombs]

Wanna hear a scary story?

Obama nominates Lynch. Republicans vote down her nomination. They lose the Senate and Hillary wins. Hillary nominates Obama.

How's that for a worst case scenario?

Holder would be worse.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Wanna hear a scary story?

Obama nominates Lynch. Republicans vote down her nomination. They lose the Senate and Hillary wins. Hillary nominates Obama.

How's that for a worst case scenario?

If Hillary wins and no matter whether the republicans lose the senate, she'll have her opportunities to nominate a hand full of leftists and the republicans will confirm them -- no matter who they are.