Judge rules against the DNR on canned hunts

[ViperJock]

How about the CWD...????

Chronic Wasting Disease

How about mad cow disease...????

i can't believe folks on a gun owners forum are asking the GOVERNMENT to PROTECT our SAFETY. Safety is an illusion and asking the government to get involved is ludicrous.

 

[phylodog]

How about mad cow disease...????

i can't believe folks on a gun owners forum are asking the GOVERNMENT to PROTECT our SAFETY. Safety is an illusion and asking the government to get involved is ludicrous.

More like asking the DNR to protect our natural resources. I could give a **** less if someone wants to shoot a farm raised deer while it's tied to a tree. What I don't want are diseased farm raised deer breeding with or infecting the wild herd. Let them do it but hold them responsible for any damages or problems created by their operations.

 

[ViperJock]

More like asking the DNR to protect our natural resources. I could give a **** less if someone wants to shoot a farm raised deer while it's tied to a tree. What I don't want are diseased farm raised deer breeding with or infecting the wild herd. Let them do it but hold them responsible for any damages or problems created by their operations.

I don't know how you would know what was their fault? How could you prove the infection started with their deer? There would be circumstantial evidence at best I would think.

Last year Michigan and Indiana lost tens of thousands of deer to hemorrhagic disease. It's disappointing the DNR didn't prevent that. Sarcasm implied.

 

[Rhoadmar]

More like asking the DNR to protect our natural resources. I could give a **** less if someone wants to shoot a farm raised deer while it's tied to a tree. What I don't want are diseased farm raised deer breeding with or infecting the wild herd. Let them do it but hold them responsible for any damages or problems created by their operations.

This is the key. It can be done.

 

[phylodog]

I don't know how you would know what was their fault? How could you prove the infection started with their deer? There would be circumstantial evidence at best I would think.

Oh, well **** it then if that's the case. It's not like anyone has ever tracked down the cause or starting point of a disease, right? I don't want to build a fence so I shouldn't have to but I'd sure like to have all of the free bacon my family can eat, I think I'll just buy me a couple pigs and cut em loose in the neighborhood. Should only take about six months and there will be a solid population that'll never be eradicated.

 

[kludge]

More like asking the DNR to protect our natural resources. I could give a **** less if someone wants to shoot a farm raised deer while it's tied to a tree. What I don't want are diseased farm raised deer breeding with or infecting the wild herd. Let them do it but hold them responsible for any damages or problems created by their operations.

How do you prove it was that farm's deer? What price to you put on the wild deer herd? How do you put a price tag on the cost of eradicating it from the wild herd once it's there? How do you collect the restitution that could be in the millions of dollars?

Easier said than done. Easier to prohibit it to start with.

Abstract...

Human Dimensions of Wildlife, 9:181 -192, 2004

Copyright © Taylor & Francis Inc.
ISSN: 1087-1209 print/ 1533-158X online DOI: 10.1080/10871200490479963
The Economic Impacts of Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) in Wisconsin
RICHARD C. BISHOP
Department of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Wisconsin-Madison Madison, Wisconsin, USA
The major economic impacts of CWD have been on hunters rather than other sectors of the Wisconsin [COLOR=green !important][FONT=inherit !important][COLOR=green !important][FONT=inherit !important]economy[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]. This article shows that by using available data and plausible assumptions, hunter losses likely amounted to between $53 million and $79 million in 2002 and $45 million to $72 million in 2003. CWD has also likely caused deer hunters to spend less on their sport than they have in the past, but the net impact of reduced hunter spending on the Wisconsin economy as a whole probably did not total more than $5 million per year in 2002 and 2003. Losses in some rural areas, however, may have been substantial, but data are not available to estimate these losses. The State of Wisconsin absorbed costs of about $14.7 million in fiscal year 2002-2003. Data are not currently available to quantify losses to deer and elk farmers, feed dealers, and deer viewers.[/FONT]

Good luck getting a tenth of that kind of money back [STRIKE]if[/STRIKE] when the deer farmers introduce CWD into Indiana's herd.

 

[ViperJock]

Oh, well **** it then if that's the case. It's not like anyone has ever tracked down the cause or starting point of a disease, right? I don't want to build a fence so I shouldn't have to but I'd sure like to have all of the free bacon my family can eat, I think I'll just buy me a couple pigs and cut em loose in the neighborhood. Should only take about six months and there will be a solid population that'll never be eradicated.

Not sure what point you think you made with the pig example?

I don't disagree with potentially holding someone responsible --but I just don't see how it's practical. Who is responsible? The farmer that didn't know the deer had CWD when they sold it? The outfitter that didn't know the deer had CWD when they bought it and let it into the fence? You might be able to track the disease if it leaves a trail but there is always a first case. What if the first case is the deer that gets loose but that deer never gets found and/or examined? I think it would be so unreliable as to be unenforceable.

 

[phylodog]

Good luck getting a tenth of that kind of money back [STRIKE]if[/STRIKE] when the deer farmers introduce CWD into Indiana's herd.

Hence the multi million dollar insurance policy I'd like to see required of those who want to shoot penned deer.

Not sure what point you think you made with the pig example?

I don't disagree with potentially holding someone responsible --but I just don't see how it's practical. Who is responsible? The farmer that didn't know the deer had CWD when they sold it? The outfitter that didn't know the deer had CWD when they bought it and let it into the fence? You might be able to track the disease if it leaves a trail but there is always a first case. What if the first case is the deer that gets loose but that deer never gets found and/or examined? I think it would be so unreliable as to be unenforceable.

There aren't many unsolved mysteries when it comes to the actions of human beings. If someone wants to know they'll find out; DNA is pretty telling and the freakish looking, genetically altered deer these operations like to grow are pretty easy to identify.

I'm all for private property rights, I'm fed up with lack of responsibility for decisions and actions. Do it if you want to and brace yourself for the consequences if things to wrong. Double 25' hi fences, daily perimeter checks, electronic fence monitoring, butt loads of liability insurance, etc..

 

[phylodog]

Post #76 is interesting: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/great-outdoors/315448-official-2013-hunting-thread-8.html

 

[greg]

...

 

[greg]

October 2, 2013 Indiana, Indianapolis Star

... [Circuit Judge] Evans found that an emergency ordered issued in 2005 by then-DNR Director Kyle Hupfer, which was aimed at stopping hunting on the fenced preserves, constituted “an improper exercise by an executive agency of the authority of the Indiana legislature.” The judge also made permanent a preliminary injunction he had issued that prohibited enforcement of the DNR order ...

http://www.indystar.com/article/201...ped-attempt-shut-down-high-fence-deer-hunting

Please call the Governors office and ask that he tall IDNR to appeal this ruling. 317 232 4567

We have 400 deer farmers and less than 10 shooting preserves who favor this ruling. Surely WE can triple that number in sportsmen who are unhappy. Call TODAY!

Bump get them calls in!!!

 

[greg]

Attorney General today filed an appeal on the Rodney Bruce case!!!

Great news........

 

[genehopkins]

Nice post Kludge and good use of facts. Thanks for the logic.

 

[longbarrel]

no difference at all. whats good for the goose is good for the gander

What is a gander?

 

[phylodog]

How do you prove it was that farm's deer? What price to you put on the wild deer herd? How do you put a price tag on the cost of eradicating it from the wild herd once it's there? How do you collect the restitution that could be in the millions of dollars?

Easier said than done. Easier to prohibit it to start with.

Abstract...



Good luck getting a tenth of that kind of money back [STRIKE]if[/STRIKE] when the deer farmers introduce CWD into Indiana's herd.

Oh I agree with you 100%. I don't want these high fence, canned hunts in our state. If they are not going to be outright banned I would like them to be so cost prohibitive that Bill Gates would have to consider long and hard before patronizing one.

 

[genehopkins]

Folks I have been studying this issue for almost 10 years. Back in 2006 I was asked to be on a committee sponsored by the legislature and IDNR. As such I spent over a year on my own time and expense listening to experts on both sides of the debate. I started out thinking that it was a property rights issue and who am I to impose my ethics on someone else. However at the end of the year study I was adamantly opposed to these deer & elk preserves.

CWD is real. There is no cure. It is 100% fatal..there is no live test. There is no vaccine. The disease can lay dormant for years before becoming active. You cannot look at a deer and know if it has the disease or not until it progresses far along. CWD has been found in pens and the animals all killed, the ground chemically sterilized, and deer reintroduced years later only to see those deer come down with it. All of this and more was presented to us by experts during that study period. These are not just my opinions but data presented by experts.

In other words, once you have it you cannot get rid of it.

All that said, I will now offer some personal opinion. I also saw how the animals were engineered just for large antlers, and raised to be sold into the pens sometimes the same day as the shoot. The animals never had a chance to learn the escape cover and routes. In the worst of cases animals were released into 3 acre pen to be shot for a TV show.

Sorry, but I care too much about my Grandkids hunting future to accept this.

Yes, all of us deserve the freedom of choice - until that choice negatively impacts the rest of us. I will stand to protect the hunting heritage. It's about more than killing and large Genetically engineered antlers.

 

[genehopkins]

Attorney General today filed an appeal on the Rodney Bruce case!!!

Great news........

Yes, this is excellent news. Thanks to all who called.

 

[Trigger Time]

Um, **** the DNR is all I have to say about this. Talk about an organization that suppresses our rights!

 

[Fargo]

Folks I have been studying this issue for almost 10 years. Back in 2006 I was asked to be on a committee sponsored by the legislature and IDNR. As such I spent over a year on my own time and expense listening to experts on both sides of the debate. I started out thinking that it was a property rights issue and who am I to impose my ethics on someone else. However at the end of the year study I was adamantly opposed to these deer & elk preserves.

CWD is real. There is no cure. It is 100% fatal..there is no live test. There is no vaccine. The disease can lay dormant for years before becoming active. You cannot look at a deer and know if it has the disease or not until it progresses far along. CWD has been found in pens and the animals all killed, the ground chemically sterilized, and deer reintroduced years later only to see those deer come down with it. All of this and more was presented to us by experts during that study period. These are not just my opinions but data presented by experts.

In other words, once you have it you cannot get rid of it.

All that said, I will now offer some personal opinion. I also saw how the animals were engineered just for large antlers, and raised to be sold into the pens sometimes the same day as the shoot. The animals never had a chance to learn the escape cover and routes. In the worst of cases animals were released into 3 acre pen to be shot for a TV show.

Sorry, but I care too much about my Grandkids hunting future to accept this.

Yes, all of us deserve the freedom of choice - until that choice negatively impacts the rest of us. I will stand to protect the hunting heritage. It's about more than killing and large Genetically engineered antlers.

Uh, all that may be very fine and well, but that ABSOLUTELY is not what this decision is about. If Hoosiers don't want canned hunting, then make it against the law. We have this funny thing called a legislature to do that. I personally would support making it illegal for a number of reasons but I can't get on board with the anti-democratic "administrative code" BS the DNR has been pulling for years.

What this is really about is whether the unelected "czar" that runs the DNR gets to make up laws on his own rather than using the legislative process.

I personally think that legislation should come from the legislature. I know it is a shocking concept.

Then again, I suppose because the end may be good, we should just go ahead and ignore the amazingly questionable means used to get there....

Joe

 

[Shootin'IN]

Pinned deer don't act the same as wild deer, they don't know man as a predator they will just stand there & get shot.
That is not hunting it is just slaughter no less than the cows or pigs from the farm at the slaughter house.