Job Search Rant

[hornadylnl]

Yes, we all know how proud you are of your accomplishments my friend. We hear about them frequently. It's good to be proud of what one has done. Good for you!

What you seem to be missing is the fact that they want all of this information blindly without even meeting the candidate. I want to know with whom I am giving my personal information to. I want to sit in an office, see a face, and hand that information to them.

I want them to be interested in the fact that I spent 14.5 years in the Aerospace, Automotive, & Industrial Construction industries in addition to serving my country in the Air National Guard. And at 32 years of age, I went back to college, worked full time and attended school full time. I graduated near the top of my class too.

Yes, my credit score used to be pretty darn close to 800, and that's post-bankruptcy. My wife and I struggled for 10+ years to put our bad decisions coupled with a crippling back injury and a mountain of medical bills behind us.

In addition to that, for the past year and a half we have struggled to pay our bills completely and on time. By the grace of God we have pretty much done it too. I set our budget up that way quite a while back. Modest home, low debt, doing our very best to live within our means.

I have passed all the background checks to work in our State's Correctional facilities as a volunteer Clergy and spend a fair amount of time at Plainfield Correctional Facility trying to help people that many here would call "throw aways" get their lives turned around so they don't become repeat offenders. I am the VP of a ministry doing work in Kenya and Tanzania, East Africa. We have a Bible College teaching young pastors theology and how to disciple churches in the bush.

What offends me is that BEFORE these companies will even consider me, they feel the need to delve into my personal life without even the option of sitting across the table from me to discuss my qualifications and what makes me the person I am today.

All a credit score represents is the degree to which I can borrow money--which incidentally is much lower because I DON'T CARRY MUCH DEBT and I can't find a company willing to hire a 50 year old!

I too am very proud of what God has blessed me with and do all I can to make a difference in this world because that's who I am. THAT'S what employers should be focused on--not who I may owe money to and where said money is spent. It's none of their darn business!

I understand all of your points completely.

Look at this from the employer's standpoint for a minute. Let's say they advertise for an aerospace position and they have over 100 applicants. I'm sure that 20-30 of the resumes can be tossed in the trash with just a few minutes in reading each one. IE, lack of qualifications, used crayon to write their resume, etc. Let's say the narrow it down to 50 just by looking at resumes. How long would it take an HR department to conduct 50 interviews? How many less interviews can they narrow it down to by simply doing background and credit checks?

I understand your frustration but you must also remember that they're the customer here, not you. I'm not saying a poor credit score is a guarantee that someone's a deadbeat but there has to be some correlation there or employers wouldn't waste their money providing them. Yes, this method is unfortunate to those who are struggling financially due to no fault of their own. With this recent recession, there were many great responsible people affected and suffered financially because of it. I was almost there. If they'd have cut one more person in our last layoff, I would have been out the door.

I wish you the best in your job search and you sound like you would be an asset to any employer. But your OP gave me the impression that you're entitled to a prospective employer's ear. I'll guarantee you that if a prospective employer read your OP, you'd never see the inside of their doors. I mean this as constructive criticism and if you see it differently, I apologize.

 

[Randrayla]

What ticks me off the most is having my time wasted. I applied for a job with AT&T installing uverse.

The first step was to apply, then a few days later I got an email to take an online test, a few days later ANOTHER online test. I was then finally given the privilege of driving to downtown Indianapolis, paying $15 for parking, and taking an hour long written test. After passing the test (only 50% there passed) we were told we would get a call later that day if they were interested in us. Never got a call. The AT&T website says "no longer considering you".

Now why the heck don't they decide if they are interested in you BEFORE making you take 2 online tests and a written test that requires you to drive downtown and pay for parking? I wasted so much of my freaking time... Ugh

 

[churchmouse]

It is the way of things in this politically correct one size fits all world we now live in. How is all this hope and change working out for you......

 

[sepe]

What ticks me off the most is having my time wasted. I applied for a job with AT&T installing uverse.

The first step was to apply, then a few days later I got an email to take an online test, a few days later ANOTHER online test. I was then finally given the privilege of driving to downtown Indianapolis, paying $15 for parking, and taking an hour long written test. After passing the test (only 50% there passed) we were told we would get a call later that day if they were interested in us. Never got a call. The AT&T website says "no longer considering you".

Now why the heck don't they decide if they are interested in you BEFORE making you take 2 online tests and a written test that requires you to drive downtown and pay for parking? I wasted so much of my freaking time... Ugh

The bold part is total BS. They should be considerate enough to send a letter to inform if they're not interested. I've had potential employers do the "we'll be in touch" and a couple called me a couple months down the road. Them not being considerate enough to tell me they weren't interested when I initially applied makes me not really want to work for them.

 

[beararms1776]

You'll find a good job. Supposedly the economy is getting better. Hopefully it will reward you for your hard effort.

 

[Mackey]

This is just the way it is. I guess I'm sort of numb to it. Every time I change jobs I expect and get the background check including driving record AND I have to submit to a drug screen and a TB test. Been this way for 15 years.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

My previous "offer" still stands.

I don't know if this anecdote will help much but weve been looking for an electrical engineer for the last few months. You'd be surprised how hard it is to find good candidates. The last guy we talked to, we really liked; thought he'd be a perfect fit. But when they did the background check, the HR guy said several less than quality character flaws or events were discovered. He was a young guy and the HR guy didn't give me any details, but I imagine this guy is paying for some youthful indiscretion(s).

So, I guess, I can only confirm employers are really looking at those background checks. Good luck to you.

 

[beararms1776]

This is just the way it is. I guess I'm sort of numb to it. Every time I change jobs I expect and get the background check including driving record AND I have to submit to a drug screen and a TB test. Been this way for 15 years.

Background checks are expected from some companies. I'm certain they don't screen everyone though.

 

[Caleb]

Majority of my working experience consist of manufacturing and production...I absolutely hate the industry. I want to make a career change into the IT field, but because my credit score is less than 800, nobody will give me a chance to gain experience. No experience = no industry change, I'm stuck working at factories...oh well, sucks to be me! Pardon me while go back to my little corner and cry.

 

[goinggreyfast]

Folks, please do not get me wrong. I have nothing to hide and I do not mind background checks, drug screens, etc, etc, etc. I just feel strongly that they are putting the cart before the horse--so to speak. The idea of me typing in and sending off my SSN, DOB, DL numbers on the internet to someone who I have never met just doesn't seem right and I feel it should be illegal to ask such things up front and require it when filling out a job application.

As to the non-responsive companies... Wow! Let's just say that I have AT LEAST 450 resumes out there, less than 5% have responded aside from the automatic, computer generated response. Then two months later, the same company puts up the same ad for the same job that I applied for and know I'm qualified to do? Do these companies get some kind of Gov't tax break for how many resumes they can collect?

Even if an interview is granted, in many cases when I follow up to find out where I am in the hiring process, they don't even bother to respond to a direct question. When I get the generic "we have chosen another candidate" letter, I will ask them what it was that caused me to fall out of consideration and I still get no response. It's just rude. You don't even want to get me started on this rant, trust me.

And the "Company Confidential" job postings. What the??? OK, you want me to send off my resume with all my information telling you who I am but you don't want to tell me who you are? Forget it.

 

[jeff1980]

I understand the op's position completely but for a larger company that gets a lot of applicants, they do need some way to shorten the list before granting interviews.

The company I work for runs these checks but after the job is offered to the person. It's a smaller company, so there's rarely more than a few candidates for any given position. Most of those are an aquaintance of a current employee.

Now, after the interview process is over the candidate is told that the agreed upon rate of pay and the position itself is contingent on passing background, driving record, drug screen and credit checks. You wouldn't beleive the number of people that end up failing even under these circumstances. I know that they are asked very politely to please not waste any time. If they can't pass, please just tell us. Still, they proceed, as if we're going to miss something. Esentially, this accomplishes nothing more than wasting a bunch of time.

So, I do understand the point of a larger company running these checks prior to even talking to a candidate. It is just as difficult and time consuming for a company to find good employees as it is for an individual to find agood job.

 

[churchmouse]

Folks, please do not get me wrong. I have nothing to hide and I do not mind background checks, drug screens, etc, etc, etc. I just feel strongly that they are putting the cart before the horse--so to speak. The idea of me typing in and sending off my SSN, DOB, DL numbers on the internet to someone who I have never met just doesn't seem right and I feel it should be illegal to ask such things up front and require it when filling out a job application.

As to the non-responsive companies... Wow! Let's just say that I have AT LEAST 450 resumes out there, less than 5% have responded aside from the automatic, computer generated response. Then two months later, the same company puts up the same ad for the same job that I applied for and know I'm qualified to do? Do these companies get some kind of Gov't tax break for how many resumes they can collect?

Even if an interview is granted, in many cases when I follow up to find out where I am in the hiring process, they don't even bother to respond to a direct question. When I get the generic "we have chosen another candidate" letter, I will ask them what it was that caused me to fall out of consideration and I still get no response. It's just rude. You don't even want to get me started on this rant, trust me.

And the "Company Confidential" job postings. What the??? OK, you want me to send off my resume with all my information telling you who I am but you don't want to tell me who you are? Forget it.

I am on the same level in this. At 60 yrs. old I wanted to get out of a service truck and finish my time in-house. There are numerous positions available for me with my skill sets and circle of friends and contacts made over a lifetime in the industry. I applied to many, refused by all....It is my age and medical history. They do not put that in writing as they would be open to legal action for discrimination. I have been told as much in confidence. That said, I am lucky enough to still be employed. 62 now and still pounding the hi-ways and by-ways until I can stop....Not sure when that will be.

 

[hornadylnl]

Folks, please do not get me wrong. I have nothing to hide and I do not mind background checks, drug screens, etc, etc, etc. I just feel strongly that they are putting the cart before the horse--so to speak. The idea of me typing in and sending off my SSN, DOB, DL numbers on the internet to someone who I have never met just doesn't seem right and I feel it should be illegal to ask such things up front and require it when filling out a job application.

As to the non-responsive companies... Wow! Let's just say that I have AT LEAST 450 resumes out there, less than 5% have responded aside from the automatic, computer generated response. Then two months later, the same company puts up the same ad for the same job that I applied for and know I'm qualified to do? Do these companies get some kind of Gov't tax break for how many resumes they can collect?

Even if an interview is granted, in many cases when I follow up to find out where I am in the hiring process, they don't even bother to respond to a direct question. When I get the generic "we have chosen another candidate" letter, I will ask them what it was that caused me to fall out of consideration and I still get no response. It's just rude. You don't even want to get me started on this rant, trust me.

And the "Company Confidential" job postings. What the??? OK, you want me to send off my resume with all my information telling you who I am but you don't want to tell me who you are? Forget it.

And we wonder why we have such a large goverment. So you think we should have a law to prevent prospective employers from requesting information before an interview. Find enough people who agree with you and lobby for yet another law to add to the stack of laws that stretch to the moon.

I look at employment much like a customer and salesman relationship. In my employment, I'm the salesman and my employer is the customer. I'm selling my labor to them. If at any time they feel they aren't getting their monies worth or customer service from me, they're free to take their money elsewhere, IE hire someone else that will provide a better value.

What you're asking seems to me to be no different than if I were in the market to buy a new car, I must visit every car branded dealership there is and listen to their salesman's spiel as to why I should buy their car. If I drive by the Ford dealership's lot and I don't like their landscaping, I should be free to drive on by. If they won't disclose their pricing up front, I should be free to leave.

As if businesses don't have enough laws and regulations to abide by now, we should pass a law that will increase the costs of their HR departments that already provide nothing but a net drain on their bottom line?

 

[Caleb]

I was listening to Dave Ramsey to ther day when he said the days of applying online, waiting for a phone call, and getting a job are over. He says you have to get creative and make yourself stand out among the crowd.

 

[Caleb]

And we wonder why we have such a large goverment. So you think we should have a law to prevent prospective employers from requesting information before an interview. Find enough people who agree with you and lobby for yet another law to add to the stack of laws that stretch to the moon.

I look at employment much like a customer and salesman relationship. In my employment, I'm the salesman and my employer is the customer. I'm selling my labor to them. If at any time they feel they aren't getting their monies worth or customer service from me, they're free to take their money elsewhere, IE hire someone else that will provide a better value.

What you're asking seems to me to be no different than if I were in the market to buy a new car, I must visit every car branded dealership there is and listen to their salesman's spiel as to why I should buy their car. If I drive by the Ford dealership's lot and I don't like their landscaping, I should be free to drive on by. If they won't disclose their pricing up front, I should be free to leave.

As if businesses don't have enough laws and regulations to abide by now, we should pass a law that will increase the costs of their HR departments that already provide nothing but a net drain on their bottom line?

The problem I have with all of that is when I apply for a job, I feel they used my imperfect credit score against me and as a result, they do not hire me. How am I suppose to get a decent job if I can't get experience? A decent job that takes care of the family and pay my bills(my debt and non debt)...vicious cycle!

 

[hornadylnl]

The problem I have with all of that is when I apply for a job, I feel they used my imperfect credit score against me and as a result, they do not hire me. How am I suppose to get a decent job if I can't get experience? A decent job that takes care of the family and pay my bills(my debt and non debt)...vicious cycle!

Do you fail to see how an employer/potential employee relationship is no different than a customer going into a store? The employer is no different than a customer in this particular relationship. Is a store entitled to the customer's time or money? So why should a job applicant be entitled to anything from an employer?

I don't know what your credit issues are and it's none of my business. We tell our children to do the right and honorable thing today or else it might bite us in the ass tomorrow. We tell them not to break the law and get convicted of a felony so they don't spend the rest of their lives flipping burgers because their criminal past keeps them from getting a real job.

Company A produces widgets. They have laborers out on their floor who have a direct hand in producing that widget. All others are overhead including the executives and the HR reps sitting in offices sifting through resumes and job applications? Should Company A be forced to hire enough HR reps to sift through ever application and interview every single person that applied?

What an employer does is no different that what I do when I go to ebay motors. Rather than simply typing in the word car and searching through 10's of thousands of listings, I adjust my search criteria to narrow down the results to what I want. I check off sedan, 4 cylinder, possibly a color, brand, price range, etc. Is the guy with the 2 door V10 Viper out of my price range cheated because I never viewed his listing? Should I be required by law to view his listing? His car doesn't fit the parameters of what I want so I weed him out. How is the employer weeding out applicants any different? Hell, they have car fax for used cars to help a potential buyer get a better picture of what they're getting into, why shouldn't employers be able to use a similar service?

 

[hornadylnl]

The problem I have with all of that is when I apply for a job, I feel they used my imperfect credit score against me and as a result, they do not hire me. How am I suppose to get a decent job if I can't get experience? A decent job that takes care of the family and pay my bills(my debt and non debt)...vicious cycle!

BTW, I wasn't born with a perfect credit score. I applied for my first credit card at 18 only because it would have given me a discount on loan interest for a truck. I was told I could only get a $500 limit card if I gave an advance of $500. That doesn't sound like credit to me. I eventually got a card and always made my payments on time. Through the years, I've taken out varous loans and paid them off, never missing a payment. Some were even paid off early. I also never had a high debt to income ratio. When my daughter was born, my wife didn't work and we had an income in the $30k's. If we couldn't afford it, we didn't buy. It was choices we made. We didn't always like it but by doing the right thing, we are now where we are.

Those choices now offer me rewards in lower interest rates for future loans, credit cards, etc. Those choices now give me a leg up in the job market. I've always been of the philosphy that by doing the right thing and more of it today, there's less I have to do tomorrow and the rewards will be even greater.

 

[hornadylnl]

Let me try this from a different angle.

I think it should be illegal for employers to ask for my qualifications before they interview me. They shouldn't be able to post college education requirements. I don't have a college degree so how can they know my experience without letting me explain myself to them?

I'm reaching the level in my field where a lack of a degree will greatly affect my ability to walk into an employer and get a job. I work in industrial maintenance and just got into a job that will train me in the automation aspect of it. A guy with a controls engineering degree will automatically beat me out for that job. That's the consequences of a choice that I made not to go to college. I can't walk into this job anywhere out there without a documented skill set. By working my way up through ****ty jobs at my current employer, I'm now getting paid to get that skill set. With enough years of experience in that skill set, I will make myself more marketable to prospective employers but I will still take a back seat to those with a degree unless I can prove my abilities. Guess what. I don't think there should be a law to even the playing field for me. I'm where I'm at due to the choices that I've made.

AND TO BE CLEAR, my intent here is not to belittle those hunting for work. Whent unemployment is less than 5%, 99% of those looking for work are in their position due to their own choices. In 2008, I saw massive layoffs and many were great workers that didn't deserve it. Many of those were out of work for long periods due to a terrible economy and no fault of their own. This has also caused a huge increase in the number of applicants for every new job, thus giving employers the ability to be pickier on their requirements. This is the way the market works. When there are many more houses on the market for sale, the prospective buyer gets to be pickier about his requirements and the price works more heavily in their favor. Naturally, whether that's good or bad depends on whether you're the buyer or seller.

 

[beararms1776]

The problem I have with all of that is when I apply for a job, I feel they used my imperfect credit score against me and as a result, they do not hire me. How am I suppose to get a decent job if I can't get experience? A decent job that takes care of the family and pay my bills(my debt and non debt)...vicious cycle!

Just get your foot in the door and work hard for the company. By all means, if you have no experience, learn from other employees as they did when they were new to the company. This in itself should show a company a lot about the character and williness to be sucessful to the company. A tainted past doesn't always mean the character is a bum. You will need to prove that to the company regardless of what others may say or think.

 

[Caleb]

Just get your foot in the door and work hard for the company. By all means, if you have no experience, learn from other employees as they did when they were new to the company. This in itself should show a company a lot about the character and williness to be sucessful to the company. A tainted past doesn't always mean the character is a bum. You will need to prove that to the company regardless of what others may say or think.

Getting my foot in the door is proving to be difficult for me, hence going for a CCNA cert