Is there a duty to act?? What would you do?

[Somemedic]

Arch, great read. Thanks for the post. That is an eye opener.

 

[dbd870]

I'm armed to protect myself and my family; I would be a good witness up until the situation crossed into the area of the beginning of my statement, then I would act as necessary to do that.

 

[Westside]

If it were me I'd be a good witness. That's it.

^^^ This until POSSIBLY when and if shots are fired. Then, maybe, if I didn't slip and fall in my own wet spot, would I attempt to neutralize the threat. Also it would be dependent on many other factors like other bystanders, am I alone or is my family with me, could I have the element of surprise?

unless the threat is directly to me and/or my family....Don't engage. Let the POS have the drugs and get out alive. Going to the gun is not always the answer.

 

[1911 mike]

I want to say that if you did pull your firearm and shoot and kill this person, that it will be something that will live with you the rest of your life. I have been involved in a killing of another and it is not something to take lightly. Some talk as if it's just another thing in daily life. No it is not! Even when it comes down to you or them, it's not just that easy. In the event you find yourself in that in that situation I would say it would have to be a life or death. If a firearm is pointed at you or someone else in the store, make sure you have all your ducks in a row. You could find yourself in court facing some very serious time in prison.
If no firearm is visible, just threats, stand your ground, do what your told, and remember all you can, and pray that he will leave with what he came in for. If your told to go to a back room with others, different story! Pray you'll never ever have to take a life, but if that time comes,do what you have to do..Just be ready for all the things that come with what you have done. It is not as easy as it may sounds, and it will be with you for the rest of your life.

 

[Loganwildman]

I want to say that if you did pull your firearm and shoot and kill this person, that it will be something that will live with you the rest of your life. I have been involved in a killing of another and it is not something to take lightly. Some talk as if it's just another thing in daily life. No it is not! Even when it comes down to you or them, it's not just that easy. In the event you find yourself in that in that situation I would say it would have to be a life or death. If a firearm is pointed at you or someone else in the store, make sure you have all your ducks in a row. You could find yourself in court facing some very serious time in prison.
If no firearm is visible, just threats, stand your ground, do what your told, and remember all you can, and pray that he will leave with what he came in for. If your told to go to a back room with others, different story! Pray you'll never ever have to take a life, but if that time comes,do what you have to do..Just be ready for all the things that come with what you have done. It is not as easy as it may sounds, and it will be with you for the rest of your life.

I cannot say what I would do in this situation due to the variables. I will say that it is sad when one has the means to stop a lethal threat but has to weigh out if they want to go through all the legal garbage before getting involved.

 

[tskin]

The CVS pharmacy in Terre Haute was just robbed last week. I was in there this past Monday getting some prescriptions filled for my son, & I asked the pharmacist about it. It just so happened he was the one who was robbed. He said he was looking down & when he looked up the bad guy was right in front of him with his arm extended and a handgun inches from his chest. I'd imagine if you were in there & saw this going down, the pucker factor would go way up......

 

[ATM]

I want to say that if you did pull your firearm and shoot and kill this person, that it will be something that will live with you the rest of your life...

That's why you conk him on the head.

If he stops, he can go to jail and maybe get some stitches.

If not, you put bullets in him until he does stop.

Simple.

 

[finity]

unless the threat is directly to me and/or my family....Don't engage. Let the POS have the drugs and get out alive. Going to the gun is not always the answer.

I'd bet that the clerk in Merrilville would have hoped for something otherwise. Not to mention her husband & kids. At least SHE doesn't have to worry about it anymore. Her family isn't as lucky.

Sometimes you CAN'T act for whatever reason. I get that. But to not act if you had an opportunity that is just cowardly. If your wife, son, daughter, mother, father etc was in that situation I'd bet you wouldn't want them to just be murdered because "it wasn't a threat against me".

 

[Somemedic]

After reading the the Perry Stephens shooting one should ask ultimately did he do the right thing? How does one stand idly by watching something he knows is wrong? Its what's eroding this country a sense of "dont get involved". While its easy to say Mr Perry should have walked away or remained a good witness he would have watched a man beat another to death. That would also have to weigh on him or any of us were we in that situation. While it must be difficult to take someones life I would think that we would all be in agreement that it was the lesser of 2 evils. It doesn't make it easy but doing the right thing never usually is.

 

[dbd870]

I'd bet that the clerk in Merrilville would have hoped for something otherwise. Not to mention her husband & kids. At least SHE doesn't have to worry about it anymore. Her family isn't as lucky.

Sometimes you CAN'T act for whatever reason. I get that. But to not act if you had an opportunity that is just cowardly. If your wife, son, daughter, mother, father etc was in that situation I'd bet you wouldn't want them to just be murdered because "it wasn't a threat against me".

If someone decides not to do what it takes to defend themselves who I am I argue with them. Enjoy those legal fees from defending yourself from a lawsuit - there are other things that you need to protect you and your family from other than an attack.

 

[ATM]

...there are other things that you need to protect you and your family from other than an attack.

Yes, things such as apathy and cowardice come to mind.

 

[LegatoRedrivers]

1. Split his head open like a canoe and cover him while the pharmacist calls police.

2. Pick up my prescription and possibly a candy bar or pack of gum, pay and leave.

3. Go home and post details on INGO.

I think a lawyer might advise you to speak with them first before posting it all on ingo. Just ask Liberty Sanders about posting legal trouble on ingo, he didn't even shoot anybody. (yes, I'm fully aware you are most definitely familiar with LS's issues, but for the newbs )

Ok, let me up the game. What if same thing happends only this time he pulls his gun and points it at the clerk?

Another question based on this scenario: Say the BG has his gun out, pressed directly to the clerk's forehead, finger on the trigger. The BG is completely oblivious to you.

How worried would you be that should you shoot the BG, an involuntary muscle reaction to being shot could cause him to pull his trigger, placing the clerk's life in jeopardy? Has anyone seen a case where this has occurred?

Just playing devil's advocate here; never heard of a specific case where something like this has happened, but it's something I've thought about in the past.

 

[ATM]

I think a lawyer might advise you to speak with them first before posting it all on ingo. ...

Of course, I'd leave out any sensitive details that could come back to haunt me such as the nature of the prescription and the amount of candy or gum purchased.

 

[LegatoRedrivers]

Of course, I'd leave out any sensitive details that could come back to haunt me such as the nature of the prescription and the amount of candy or gum purchased.

Very good then. Carry on.

 

[dbd870]

Yes, things such as apathy and cowardice come to mind.

Then I can count on you to pay all and any legal fees, lost wages, etc incurred by the big hero - thought so.

 

[ATM]

Then I can count on you to pay all and any legal fees, lost wages, etc incurred by the big hero - thought so.

What kind of weak non-argument is that?

There is sometimes a cost associated with doing what's right - it will rarely be the path of least resistance.

I'm not going to pay that cost for you or anyone else. In that moment, you either step up knowing the possible cost of your actions, prepared to face them if need be, or you do nothing and forego any responsibilty or stake in the outcome.

Does your action or lack thereof really hinge on the pledge of someone elses checkbook?

- thought so.

 

[jeremy]

Shoot the little bastage...

 

[finity]

If someone decides not to do what it takes to defend themselves who I am I argue with them. Enjoy those legal fees from defending yourself from a lawsuit - there are other things that you need to protect you and your family from other than an attack.

Do you have a job?

Does your job allow you to carry while doing that job? Most don't (for whatever reason).

If yours doesn't allow you to carry do you still carry at the risk of getting fired? Most people (not wholly unreasonably) don't. I know I couldn't afford to lose my job over it.

If you don't carry every second of every day, it's entirely possible for you be put in a position where you COULDN'T do what it takes to defend yourself, either.

I guess you're on your own then. It's not MY fault you "decided" to not have the means to defend yourself. Why should I or anybody else get involved? To take it further, why should we even have police. Why should I have to pay for police protection (such that it is - different thread) for you since you decided that you didn't want to protect yourself?

At this point I should throw down the standard Edmund Burke quote but I'm sure you have already heard it & decided he was full of .

Mindset like that is why the "don't be a snitch" campaign works so well. It's why "I didn't see a thing" is a common response during many investigations into violent crimes, especially in the more financially troubled areas. No body wants to get involved. "It's not my problem".

There are many reasons for violent crimes in our society & that way of thinking definitely is a big contributing factor to them.

As to your seeming contention that every single self-defense act (or defense of others) will incur some huge financial cost I will ask you, just like I do every other person who says the same thing, how many cases of self-defense in INDIANA end up with the GG being sued by the BG? Not just successfully either. If it is such a foregone conclusion that people get sued for acting in legitimate self-defense then those cases should be VERY easy to find in the news. No one I have asked has been able to show that even a small but significant minority of cases get brought to trial.

The only thing that throwing that worn out & unlikely (at least in INDIANA) warning does is make people hesitate to help themselves, & especially others, when their life is on the line out of a mostly unfounded fear.

Do what you want. It's your conscience. I hope no one in your family ever finds themselves in a position where they need the help of a stranger. If so then I wish them luck if the only others around think like you do.

 

[Caleb]

Just be a good witness guys and NOBODY will get hurt

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ore_robbery_merrillville_clerk_shot_dead.html

 

[dbd870]

What kind of weak non-argument is that?

There is sometimes a cost associated with doing what's right - it will rarely be the path of least resistance.

I'm not going to pay that cost for you or anyone else. In that moment, you either step up knowing the possible cost of your actions, prepared to face them if need be, or you do nothing and forego any responsibilty or stake in the outcome.

Does your action or lack thereof really hinge on the pledge of someone elses checkbook?

- thought so.

If you're so worried about doing the right thing then it shouldn't be a problem to cover the expense after all it's the principle right? I mean we all need to help each other out. Everyone who feels that way should set up a defense fund so you can all do your part in helping out with keeping everyone safe, I mean that way people would not be as reluctant to be involved. You're darn right I'm not willing to pay the price for a stranger. I have a wife and kids that come first and if that's too cold hearted and selfish so be it; and I wouldn't blame anyone for reacting the same way were I or a family member involved. Is it quite possible to end up in a lawsuit after using deadly force where you were not a direct participant before capping a round off? - think so; should it be that way after a shoot is determined to be justifiable? - nope, but that's another discussion. I'll stick with being a good witness.

NOTE: The opinions stated in my posts are made assuming the situation presented in the original post.