Is there a duty to act?? What would you do?

[Kirk Freeman]

What can or would you do?
The person hasn't threatened you persay but has the teller at this point...
Any legalities on this?

You are asking for the standard on defense of others???

 

[laxmann31]

Ok, let me up the game. What if same thing happends only this time he pulls his gun and points it at the clerk?

I would definitely use deadly force. The threat is immediately known

 

[xdmstu]

I don't have a good answer for what I'd do... but here's a strategy what went through my head after I read the scenario.

1. At every drug store I know of the pharmacy is in the back, meaning perp is far from exit.
2. If I have family I tell them to get out immediately and call 911 once outside, or if there's not a safe path to the exit then tell them to get on the floor
3. Escort the family towards the exit, and/or find a place, between the exit and the perp which has COVER, not concealment, take it and wait for family to exit. Try and tell other patrons to get down or exit
4. As perp is leaving, one can then choose to confront him verbally with gun ready
5. If he draws and shows an actual gun, you should have the element of surprise and readiness on your side - conflict ensues
6. If he runs and doesn't show a gun, well, let him run you're still a good witness
7. If he complies to any commands, hold him until police arrive

Okay, even re-reading it, it sounds all too convenient and planned and would probably give lawyers too much room to find fault... in reality I imagine it happens all too quick and chaotic

 

[youngda9]

All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

 

[rich8483]

i hate to sound uncaring with this post but...

i have learned a lot in the last couple of years, and at my age, i still have A LOT to learn still. my idea has become, most things are not as they seem. i would be very reluctant to act unless im personally involved and simply be a good witness. the end.

if im 150% sure of whats going on, i would act. but i dont think anyone here can honestly speculate what they would do until it happens.

i tried to chase down what i thought was a walgreens thief one day, went back into walgreens with a description and plate number and they had no idea what i was talking about. it was a personal dispute in the parking lot that im glad i didnt get any more involved in.

another time what appeared to be a mall parking lot robbery which turned out to be school rivals fighting.

ive decided to just mind my own business at the risk of sounding like an ass.

i know your scenario sounds very clear, and maybe in that case i would act. although i bet Walgreen themselves would prefer you didn't. (but i also use the drive through at a pharmacy, lol) but i dont think any of us should play out a scenario of what we definitely would do if it has never happened to us.

 

[blamecharles]

Maybe you could go home and go to sleep at night with that dead pharmacist at your feet, not me.

Already repped you but

 

[blamecharles]

I'd put a .45 right in his head, without warning.

It is NOT just "drugs and money."

This individual has declared that he is armed under circumstances where it is implied that he will use deadly force if his demands aren't met.

What if you decide to wait it out and he pulls the gun and puts one right between the pharmacist's eyes?

Whether or not he proves to be actually armed is irrelevant. Self-defense is based on what the shooter believes was happening. If the robber declares that he has a gun you have every good-faith reason to believe that he has one.

^^^^This^^^^ because VVVVVthisVVVV

All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

 

[Oliver]

Being objective here, how many murders are committed by those are are only looking to kill someone? Now how many murders are committed by someone with a different intent that just leads to murder?
It's kind of like that saying "guns don't exist in gun-free zones...."

 

[Oliver]

i hate to sound uncaring with this post but...

ive decided to just mind my own business at the risk of sounding like an ass.

i know your scenario sounds very clear, and maybe in that case i would act. although i bet Walgreen themselves would prefer you didn't. (but i also use the drive through at a pharmacy, lol) but i dont think any of us should play out a scenario of what we definitely would do if it has never happened to us.

I would personally prefer some pos wouldn't commit murder in front of me either, and who cares what ask greens prefers. I bet the man behind the counter praying he sees his kids again would prefer that you acted.

 

[mdeshon]

I agree with Liberty. I wouldn't think twice about putting one in his dome.

 

[ATM]

1. Split his head open like a canoe and cover him while the pharmacist calls police.

2. Pick up my prescription and possibly a candy bar or pack of gum, pay and leave.

3. Go home and post details on INGO.

 

[rich8483]

I would personally prefer some pos wouldn't commit murder in front of me either, and who cares what ask greens prefers. I bet the man behind the counter praying he sees his kids again would prefer that you acted.

im not saying i definately would not act, but with the experiances you edited out, i would have to be very sure of whats going on.

 

[stewballs]

Watch and act only if threat is there.

 

[Cpl. Klinger]

I used to work for a large national grocery retailer in the Indianapolis area that had pharmacies in the stores. One of our pharmacies was robbed by a gentleman with a member of management within 25 feet. The person waited for the desk to be empty and very calmly informed the pharmacist to give them a bag of oxy and not make a scene, or they would kill everyone there, and insinuated that they had a weapon with which to carry it out. The whole event lasted on the order of three minutes, and even on video, if you didn't know what was happening, you wouldn't have been able to tell. More than likely if there in person, you wouldn't know until the perp hit the door that anything had happened. Sometimes the situation isn't what it seems, and it's difficult to glean enough info to make a good tactical decision.

Now, if I was in Walgreens/CVS and some nut case came in waving a gun around pointing it at folks acting crazy, my actions still depend upon the circumstances: do I have my wife/daughter with me, do I have a good shot, can I take defensive measures and be a good witness? I can't say point blank "I'd do (x)" because of the fluidness of the situation. If my wife/kid are with me, and I can get us all outside, I'm doing that and being a witness. If I can't get outside and can't get a good shot at said nut case that would lessen the possible danger to others, I'm not going to take a shot and will defensively cover myself/my family. If he points the weapon at myself or my family, then I turn his brain to soup. All actions are variable dependent. In my view, such as it is, my first order of duty is to protect myself and my family. Once I have seen to that duty, then I can concern myself with the protection of others, but only then. If that means that I bug out to ensure the safety of my family and something bad goes down after I have done so, I can still live with myself as I have seen to the safety of my family. This may sound cold, but my wife and kids are the most important people in this equation, not the pharmacist. If I can protect my family as well as him, then I do so. If I have to choose, I choose my family first.

Perhaps if more companies wouldn't be so uptight about people being armed, then there wouldn't be as much crime to begin with. As far as property goes, unless it is mine, it is none of my concern. I have insurance for my stuff either way, anyone elses stuff is their concern.

 

[edporch]

Hi there,
I have a question as to how you would act in this situation. In my area there has been a string of wal greens and other pharmacies being robbed for narcotics. The M O usually is a man says he has a gun and demands the narcotics....
Say you happened to be in there at this same time this occurs..
What can or would you do?
The person hasn't threatened you persay but has the teller at this point...
Any legalities on this?

IF the situation was as you say, ONE perp, the perp has said to the druggist they have a gun but have NOT drawn it.

There's no one answer.

But the MAIN goal is to not let the perp harm anybody.

If the perp just takes the drugs and goes, make sure to get a good description of them and any vehicle for the police.

Don't try to apprehend the perp unless you're sure it can be done without innocent people getting hurt.


IF on the OTHER HAND, the perp draws a gun and clearly intends to harm people, you may not have a LEGAL duty to try to stop it, but you do have a MORAL duty.

Could you REALLY stand by and let a criminal murder somebody in front of you when you could stop it?

 

[lrahm]

Always be a good witness.

 

[sparkyfender]

Impossible to say for sure without actually being there and witnessing a real situation. Maybe this plan of action, maybe another. It would all depend on MANY factors..........
I will say that I never go into a pharmacy unarmed, and I try to stay alert to customer comings and goings.........
Anyone remember the New York incident last year where the guy walked into the pharmacy on Father's Day, murdered three or four people, then calmly walked out with his drugs??

 

[indytechnerd]

3 days out of 7, I drop the hammer on the guy and not bat an eye. The other 4 would take some internal processing before taking (or not) action.

Now, for those of you who are going all on that above statement, here's why....

You might have noticed in the Walgreens around Indy the new little clinic off to the side ran by Take Care Health (which is owned by WG). They are staffed by Nurse Practitioners (Masters of Nursing + "Family" Certification) as a convenience clinic for minor illnesses, flu shots, etc. My wife is one of them. 3 days a week, 12hrs a day, she is in the same general area as the pharmacy, and anyone at the counter to the pharmacy is between her and the exit. I'm there visiting the wife and that guy shows up, he's probably leaving dead, because at that point we're not talking robbery of a 3rd party.

 

[cbseniour]

duty to act? no.

could you? if the threat of violence is present (forcible felony), you certainly are within the law to act. IANAL, etc

What he said i.e the case of the Kroger manager who recently shot a potential robber. The manager himself was not being theatened his employee was. BANG

 

[TomN]

I'd put a .45 right in his head, without warning.

It is NOT just "drugs and money."

This individual has declared that he is armed under circumstances where it is implied that he will use deadly force if his demands aren't met.

What if you decide to wait it out and he pulls the gun and puts one right between the pharmacist's eyes?

Whether or not he proves to be actually armed is irrelevant. Self-defense is based on what the shooter believes was happening. If the robber declares that he has a gun you have every good-faith reason to believe that he has one.

Yep that'll work. Then his friend who is keeping an eye on things sees this and maybe puts one in the back of your head. Or maybe a witness tells the cops that this guy was doing nothing wrong and you pulled out your gun and killed him in cold blood. Or maybe it goes down like the BATF agent that went after the guy who robbed that store. Yeah he was accidentally killed by the cops who responded to the call.

But seriously, it's your call. The very best thing that could happen is you get a pat on the back and feel good about yourself for possibly saving a life. Almost every other way either involves you getting arrested or possibly shot. I will be a good witness thanks, unless he decides to point a gun at me or some other way threaten my life or the lives of my family.