Is the USA a free country?

[Que]

Well thats how you interpret it but to each their own. It tells me that we have too many ridiculous laws.

I was thinking about this the other night. I would prefer that all laws that are in place to prevent one from harming himself be changed. Current law doesn't stop someone who wants to sell drugs to anyone who wants to purchase it. Also, the law doesn't stop a woman or man wants to sell their bodies to someone willing to pay their asking price.

Just looking at these two examples, the only people hurt are those who desire to partake in the activity. I know some will say, "But, what about crime." My argument is, outlawing these activities has not helped. I believe there is a solution, but the rules don't allow me to fully articulate my theory. I say we should stop trying to control people through laws and start serving them in the way we were created, in order to change hearts.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Just looking at these two examples, the only people hurt are those who desire to partake in the activity. I know some will say, "But, what about crime." My argument is, outlawing these activities has not helped. I believe there is a solution, but the rules don't allow me to fully articulate my theory. I say we should stop trying to control people through laws and start serving them in the way we were created, in order to change hearts.

I'm outta rep ammo , somebody get'em for me .

 

[Lucas156]

Good points Que I fully agree with you. It comes down to victimless crimes.

@2AdmnLover-I think just saying "well if you don't like it fight to get it changed" is just a copout. That the majority of people are ok with oppressing someone does not make it ok. If I believe one way but can't get the majority to believe me does that make me wrong? No it doesn't The idea of freedom is based on the fact that no one can impose their beliefs on others. However, using your logic it's ok for me to oppose my beliefs on someone as long as the majority has the same beliefs as myself.

 

[cbseniour]

Free Country

The USA isn't nearly as free as it should be nor as it once was. That is our own fault because we keep electing fools who give or take our freedoms away.

That said it is still be best in the world, lets work to keep it that way.

 

[dross]

You mean like the one that says if I want to Carry a gun I'd better have a license ? Or how'bout the one that says I need a license to fish ?

Regardless of how "just" a law is , it is a law and shall be obeyed in the interest of good order and civility .

If not , then don't cry when you get what you get .

Don't like it , then start a movement to change the law .

Does that go for Cuba as well? I ask only because I'm trying to understand your principles.

 

[Hoosier9]

Of course the war wasn't about the slaves. The winner of the war always rewrites history. The south actually called the civil war The War of Northern Aggression and were right to do so. I call it that whenever it is talked about.

Who fired the first shots?

Just sayin'.......

 

[Fletch]

You mean like the one that says if I want to Carry a gun I'd better have a license ? Or how'bout the one that says I need a license to fish ?

Regardless of how "just" a law is , it is a law and shall be obeyed in the interest of good order and civility .

"No intelligent man has any respect for an unjust law."
-- Robert Heinlein

I don't think order or civility are all that important, when compared to justice or morality. Elevating law to the status of doctrine serves only to encourage tyrants.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Does that go for Cuba as well? I ask only because I'm trying to understand your principles.

I'm not following you here . Cuba ?

 

[dross]

"I don't think order or civility are all that important, when compared to justice or morality. Elevating law to the status of doctrine serves only to encourage tyrants.

"Ever'body talkin' 'bout peace, nobody talkin' bout just-ice.." Peter Tosh

 

[Bunnykid68]

I'm not following you here . Cuba ?

I think what he meant is telling us if we dont like the laws to change them is about the same as telling Cubans who do not like their dictator to get rid of him. It just is not that easy.

 

[dross]

I'm not following you here . Cuba ?

I think what he meant is telling us if we dont like the laws to change them is about the same as telling Cubans who do not like their didctator to get rid of him. It just is not that easy.

Also, that in Cuba people who don't want to follow the law and therefore end up in jail include people who criticize the government, homosexuals, and people whom their neighbors or kids turn in for not being reactionaries.

If you take someone's freedom for disobeying an unjust law it doesn't matter whether it's here or in Cuba.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Good points Que I fully agree with you. It comes down to victimless crimes.

@2AdmnLover-I think just saying "well if you don't like it fight to get it changed" is just a copout. Black folks wanted civil rights so they protested , marched and got the laws changed . Gay folks want to marry each other so there protesting , marching and getting the laws changed . This method of "copping out" seems to be effective .

That the majority of people are ok with oppressing someone does not make it ok. If I believe one way but can't get the majority to believe me does that make me wrong? Oh yeah , well I think I should be able to drive 150mph around 465 or run butt ass naked covered in peanut butter and mayonnaise down the street but I'm sure I couldn't get the majority to go along with me . So using your logic , am I wrong ?

In the collective / national interest of good order and civility , YES .

No it doesn't The idea of freedom is based on the fact that no one can impose their beliefs on others. I'm all for individual freedoms until a person while exercising said freedoms disrupts good order and civility .

However, using your logic it's ok for me to oppose my beliefs on someone as long as the majority has the same beliefs as myself.[/QUOTE]
You as an individual , imposing your will on another because the majority says it's ok , NO that's not cool .

I don't happen to like barry or his policies but that's what the majority wanted and they got their way and elected him . Now , I have to live with the consequences in a civil manner .

 

[Fletch]

@2AdmnLover-I think just saying "well if you don't like it fight to get it changed" is just a copout. Black folks wanted civil rights so they protested , marched and got the laws changed . Gay folks want to marry each other so there protesting , marching and getting the laws changed . This method of "copping out" seems to be effective .

This is a whitewash of the history of the civil rights movement. There were also black folks beaten, jailed, shot, and hanged for breaking Jim Crow laws. According to you, they just got what they deserved.

 

[Bunnykid68]

That is why this country was intended to be a Representative Republic. Majority Rule aka democracy is a horrible thing and we are witnessing it more and more every year as the people who pop out babies and refuse to work keep getting more money because it seems to be the right thing to do.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

I think what he meant is telling us if we dont like the laws to change them is about the same as telling Cubans who do not like their dictator to get rid of him. It just is not that easy.

I never said it was easy , just that it can be done . Didn't we do it with the Brits , aren't the Libyans doing it with Gaddafi (sp?)

Also, that in Cuba people who don't want to follow the law and therefore end up in jail include people who criticize the government, homosexuals, and people whom their neighbors or kids turn in for not being reactionaries. Not to be too much of a dick here man but I really don't give two ****s about what the Cubans , pygmies or whoever else is going through , just Americans .

If you take someone's freedom for disobeying an unjust law it doesn't matter whether it's here or in Cuba.

What American law is so reprehensible / unjust that has you using Cuba as an example ?

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

This is a whitewash of the history of the civil rights movement. There were also black folks beaten, jailed, shot, and hanged for breaking Jim Crow laws. According to you, they just got what they deserved.

You call it a "whitewash" , I call it "cliff notes" .

I wasn't trying to belittle or demean their struggle , just pointing out that the methods they used were effective and now they are as free as any other man .

 

[Bunnykid68]

Try following the 2nd Amendment for what is says if you do not have permission from the government to do so.

That is reprehensible in my opinion.

 

[dross]

What American law is so reprehensible / unjust that has you using Cuba as an example ?

Drug laws, prostitution laws - any laws that criminalize free exchange between consenting adults.

 

[Fletch]

You call it a "whitewash" , I call it "cliff notes" .

I wasn't trying to belittle or demean their struggle , just pointing out that the methods they used were effective and now they are as free as any other man .

My point is, if you endorse the law just because it's the law, you necessarily give a big thumbs-up to the injustices committed under the law, including what amounts to State-sanctioned murder of people who break it. You can't then turn around and say "hey, cool, the law was overturned, I was for that all along".

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Try following the 2nd Amendment for what is says if you do not have permission from the government to do so.

That is reprehensible in my opinion.

Drug laws, prostitution laws - any laws that criminalize free exchange between consenting adults.

My point is, if you endorse the law just because it's the law, you necessarily give a big thumbs-up to the injustices committed under the law, including what amounts to State-sanctioned murder of people who break it. You can't then turn around and say "hey, cool, the law was overturned, I was for that all along".

Gentlemen , if you do not like the laws of the land in which we live under , by all means do something to change the laws but please do so in a manner that is conducive to good order and civility .

Otherwise , do not cry when you get jacked up and thrown in prison .

With that , I bid you all good night .