Is the USA a free country?

[Bunnykid68]

Jacked up or thrown in prison? Really, after all that, that's what you come back with. We do not like the laws that apparently you like quite a bit and you are assuming we are going to try and get rid of them by nefarious means.

 

[Fletch]

Gentlemen , if you do not like the laws of the land in which we live under , by all means do something to change the laws but please do so in a manner that is conducive to good order and civility .

Otherwise , do not cry when you get jacked up and thrown in prison .

Well, if you're going to go for the Nuremberg defense, you might as well go all the way, I guess.

 

[jbombelli]

Unless you were black.

Or Irish.

Everybody forgets about the hundreds of thousands of Irish slaves imported into the New World in the mid 1600s.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I wold love to see that and form my own opinion. I have always refused to get into the debate as to whether slavery was the main issue in the Civil War. The benefit of the north winning was the freeing of the slaves. I refuse to believe the majority of free citizens believed slaves should be free based on ethics. Nothing has ever changed in this company in the area of equality without there being a fiscal benefit or punishment.

Also, referencing an earlier post, the flags flown on ships, including slave ships, had to be recognized by England. Those that were not were deemed to be pirates and destroyed.

This is a broad subject and I have various thoughts. Bottom line, just as some wish to put the past behind us, I wish we could just accept our history without attempting to relieve our hearts and minds concerning some of the atrocities that occurred by attempting to find or create a silver lining.

As to the OP, yes, I believe America is a free country. Accountability and punishment results from violating the freedoms we have.

que, I will get back to you with the references, you have my word. England did recognize the confederacy and England wanted the south to win, but the south ran out of gold so the weapons and support stopped.
If nothing else, I think its important that we at least know the TRUTH behind our history. no matter how wrong we were or right in doing things we as a nation did. the truth of it deserves to be told. not just the PC version of the victor. I do not believe slavery was right at all, but Im also judging it with a 20th & 21st century mind. Some people in the world still eat human flesh because they havent been modernized. I dont judge them for it by 21st century laws.
another misconception in America, is that although only about 10% of americans are related to any of the original colonist, a lot more think they are. just like a lot of blacks think they are related to slaves just because they are black. its simply a misconception that no one cares to disprove. just like I want to know and do know who my ancestors were, I also wanna know as many details about my countries history as possible, and the truth, not just whats printed in school books that are corrupted versions of the truth.

 

[JetGirl]

I also understand incremental progress, but I'm a fan of throwing a Hail Mary every once in a while.

Hey, did I just use a football metaphor? JetGirl would be so proud.

Six LONG years of striving...and it finally PAID OFF.

Post Validation... you haz it.

 

[steveh_131]

Gentlemen , if you do not like the laws of the land in which we live under , by all means do something to change the laws but please do so in a manner that is conducive to good order and civility .

Otherwise , do not cry when you get jacked up and thrown in prison .

With that , I bid you all good night .

that's a good little slave

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Is the USA a free country?

Not by any stretch of the imagination. Just ask any of the foreign entities which are buying it up piece-by-piece. The devaluation of the US Dollar is making it a very costly venture to purchase & control the USA.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Nope not free.

Some people may have been free at some points in history, but there has never been a free society. Someone is always getting the short end of the deal.

Our Liberties are definitely being reduced daily though.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

that's a good little slave

Like I said , do something about it .

*****in on INGO isn't gonna change squat cept your post count .

 

[steveh_131]

Like I said , do something about it .

I'm all for changing the laws in the most peaceful way possible.

But sometimes talking doesn't get the point across and it requires a little more of this:

Edit: I think 2ADMNLOVER is the 3rd one back with his mouth wide open like a goldfish

 

[dross]

Like I said , do something about it .

*****in on INGO isn't gonna change squat cept your post count .

Oh, I don't know about that. I've had five or six PMs where people told me I'd changed their point of view on one issue or another, after reading my impeccably logical and might I say, poetically written arguments right here on INGO. I figure there's at least another ten or so who didn't PM me, and probably a couple of dozen lurkers.

They say a little pebble becomes a tidal wave somewhere around the world.

So some day when your little grandchild explains that some of your ideas sound a lot like fascism, maybe you can thank me for that, 'cause my little ripple made it around the world and back to you.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

They say a little pebble becomes a tidal wave somewhere around the world.

Oh really , well "they say" are the most prolific liars in the world .

Your poetry seems to be a force to be reckoned with but your actions would be more impressive if you'd take to the streets and get the laws changed .

 

[Kase]

Oh, I don't know about that. I've had five or six PMs where people told me I'd changed their point of view on one issue or another, after reading my impeccably logical and might I say, poetically written arguments right here on INGO. I figure there's at least another ten or so who didn't PM me, and probably a couple of dozen lurkers.

They say a little pebble becomes a tidal wave somewhere around the world.

So some day when your little grandchild explains that some of your ideas sound a lot like fascism, maybe you can thank me for that, 'cause my little ripple made it around the world and back to you.

Not going to lie, you've changed my mind ( or at least made me re-think) on A LOT of subjects. Keep up the good work

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Your poetry seems to be a force to be reckoned with but your actions would be more impressive if you'd take to the streets and get the laws changed .

What is accomplished when one "takes to the streets"? Are there a lot of like-minded folks on your particular streets? Where I live, most people peter-about in their cars, paying almost no attention to the world around them or the politics which affect us all. Unless you know of some magical way to get the average person on the street to slow down, pay attention, and open their minds to complex thoughts about sometimes abstract socio-political ideals...I'd say concisely speaking one's mind on an internet forum is likely one of the most effective ways to change hearts & minds.

Not going to lie, you've changed my mind ( or at least made me re-think) on A LOT of subjects. Keep up the good work

Put me into that category as well. Whenever I find myself in disagreement with Dross (and a few others on this forum), I do a double-take & really chew the issue. I don't always come into agreement with him/them, but more often than not, my opinions are changed, for the better, by the discussion. If your approach is not similar, I question the wisdom of your decision to peruse a "General Political Discussion" internet forum, 2AL.

 

[dross]

You guys are making me all verklempt. Sniffle.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

..I'd say concisely speaking one's mind on an internet forum is likely one of the most effective ways to change hearts & minds.

Yeah your right Paco , demonstrations in the streets have never accomplished anything huh . After chewing on it for a while, you sir are correct , nothing gets attention like blathering on the net !

It'd be more impressive if it were proven that ANY politician reads this forum and takes the posts into consideration while thinking of new ways to screw us .



Put me into that category as well. Whenever I find myself in disagreement with Dross (and a few others on this forum), I do a double-take & really chew the issue. I don't always come into agreement with him/them, but more often than not, my opinions are changed, for the better, by the discussion.

For the record , I wasn't in disagreement with him in as much as I was "pickin" at him a little . Which , I'd say he took in stride .

If your approach is not similar, I question the wisdom of your decision to peruse a "General Political Discussion" internet forum, 2AL.

IMO , one of the best things about being a "free" American is , I don't have to care who's wisdom you question .

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Yeah your right Paco , demonstrations in the streets have never accomplished anything huh . After chewing on it for a while, you sir are correct , nothing gets attention like blathering on the net !

Across the entire state of Indiana, do you think there are even one thousand people who would "take to the streets" about loss of freedom at this point? To be perfectly honest, very few infringements effect most people in ways they can identify. Heck, a lot of people would be perfectly fine giving more than 1/2 their paychecks to the IRS in return for being taken care of.

It'd be more impressive if it were proven that ANY politician reads this forum and takes the posts into consideration while thinking of new ways to screw us .

See above. Can't have a "movement" until you've won hearts & minds. The Declaration of Independence didn't happen organically. It began with many many writings over many years in which people's hearts & minds were changed to desire liberty & independence over monarchy & aristocracy. We're sorta back to that point now with our current corporate oligarchy. Internet forums are a method of disseminating ideals & ideas. This is part of the process.

For the record , I wasn't in disagreement with him in as much as I was "pickin" at him a little . Which , I'd say he took in stride .

I've been away for awhile (long work hours since October...), so you'll have to forgive me if I've misidentified the "fascist" label as being anything but friendly banter.

IMO , one of the best things about being a "free" American is , I don't have to care who's wisdom you question .

Oh, I didn't ask you to care. I offer my thoughts & opinions freely & unsolicited

Since you're so certain that now is the time to take to the streets for change...grab your rifle, run out in the street, & do something about it. When you realize that you're all alone, that means you need to go back inside & rethink your strategy.

Note to mods: I'm just paraphrasing a popular quote...not advocating armed revolution.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Oh, I didn't ask you to care. I offer my thoughts & opinions freely & unsolicited

Therein lies the problem . If you must jump in a conversation you weren't part of , please give all involved the common courtesy of at least knowing what your talking about .

Since you're so certain that now is the time to take to the streets for change...grab your rifle, run out in the street, & do something about it. When you realize that you're all alone, that means you need to go back inside & rethink your strategy.

Don't make me get SE back in here to organize another OC walk !

Note to mods: I'm just paraphrasing a popular quote...not advocating armed revolution.

.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Therein lies the problem . If you must jump in a conversation you weren't part of , please give all involved the common courtesy of at least knowing what your talking about .

Oh, when I'm around, I'll probably go ahead & jump into any conversation wherein someone asserts this:

Like I said , do something about it .

*****in on INGO isn't gonna change squat cept your post count .

I disagree with your assertion wholeheartedly & have supported my stance in my previous posts. Again, hearts & minds aren't won in the streets. Since you mentioned "gay rights", for example; they changed hearts & minds from our living rooms for decades & are just now effectively taking to the streets.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Again, hearts & minds aren't won in the streets. .

This is where we disagree .

IMO , you can win all the hearts and minds you want on a forum , but until you make a big enough "ruckus" in the streets you don't get the politicians ears , or the changes you want to see happen .