Is Jared Fogel from Subway fame dead?

[Fargo]

what is the minimum age to be married in Indiana?

That depends on what you can convince a judge of.

 

[Fargo]

Ok.

2010 Code:




Even going back to 2006, under 14 is child molest regardless. The only difference I can see in the code would be an ongoing dating relationship between a 19 year old with a 15 year old would be a defense in 2010 but not in 2006. Every other iteration would be same-same as either the older party would not qualify to be charged or the younger party would be old enough to consent. (ie, a 17 year old with a 13 year old would be child molest regardless, but a 18 year old and a 14 year old in a dating relationship would be within 4 years of each other, a 20 year old and 16 year old would mean the 16 year old was old enough to consent regardless)

I think we can safety say this isn't a trend and that the age of consent was not lowered in recent memory except in one very particular instance.

Except that that defense was added to about 4-5 different offenses, so no. Look at he 2010 35-49-3-4 vs the current one.

You are correct that the Sexual Misconduct statute was amended a bit earlier than I recalled. However, the fact that they reduced the age of consent in various statutes in multiple years actually cuts pretty hard against the bolded part above:
2010

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]IC 35-42-4-4
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]Child exploitation; possession of child pornography; violation
classification; exemption; definitions
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][/FONT][/FONT]Sec. 4. (a) As used in this section:
"Disseminate" means to transfer possession for free or for a
consideration.
"Matter" has the same meaning as in IC 35-49-1-3.
"Performance" has the same meaning as in IC 35-49-1-7.
"Sexual conduct" means sexual intercourse, deviate sexual
conduct, exhibition of the uncovered genitals intended to satisfy or
arouse the sexual desires of any person, sadomasochistic abuse,
sexual intercourse or deviate sexual conduct with an animal, or any
fondling or touching of a child by another person or of another
person by a child intended to arouse or satisfy the sexual desires of
either the child or the other person.
(b) A person who knowingly or intentionally:
(1) manages, produces, sponsors, presents, exhibits,
photographs, films, videotapes, or creates a digitized image of
any performance or incident that includes sexual conduct by a
child under eighteen (18) years of age;
(2) disseminates, exhibits to another person, offers to
disseminate or exhibit to another person, or sends or brings into
Indiana for dissemination or exhibition matter that depicts or
describes sexual conduct by a child under eighteen (18) years
of age; or
(3) makes available to another person a computer, knowing that
the computer's fixed drive or peripheral device contains matter
that depicts or describes sexual conduct by a child less than
eighteen (18) years of age;
commits child exploitation, a Class C felony.
(c) A person who knowingly or intentionally possesses:
(1) a picture;
(2) a drawing;
(3) a photograph;
(4) a negative image;
(5) undeveloped film;
(6) a motion picture;
(7) a videotape;
(8) a digitized image; or
(9) any pictorial representation;
that depicts or describes sexual conduct by a child who the person
knows is less than sixteen (16) years of age or who appears to be less
than sixteen (16) years of age, and that lacks serious literary, artistic,
political, or scientific value commits possession of child
pornography, a Class D felony.
(d) Subsections (b) and (c) do not apply to a bona fide school,
museum, or public library that qualifies for certain property tax
exemptions under IC 6-1.1-10, or to an employee of such a school,
museum, or public library acting within the scope of the employee's
employment when the possession of the listed materials is for
legitimate scientific or educational purposes.
[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]As added by Acts 1978, P.L.148, SEC.5. Amended by P.L.325-1983,
SEC.1; P.L.206-1986, SEC.1; P.L.37-1990, SEC.25; P.L.59-1995,
SEC.3; P.L.216-1996, SEC.19; P.L.3-2002, SEC.2; P.L.216-2007,
SEC.43.
[/FONT][/FONT]

2014

[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT,Bold]IC 35-42-4-4
Child exploitation; possession of child pornography; exemptions;
defenses
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT,Bold][/FONT][/FONT]Sec. 4. (a) The following definitions apply throughout this
section:
(1) "Disseminate" means to transfer possession for free or for
a consideration.
(2) "Matter" has the same meaning as in IC 35-49-1-3.
(3) "Performance" has the same meaning as in IC 35-49-1-7.
(4) "Sexual conduct" means sexual intercourse, other sexual
conduct (as defined in IC 35-31.5-2-221.5), exhibition of the
uncovered genitals intended to satisfy or arouse the sexual
desires of any person, sadomasochistic abuse, sexual
intercourse or other sexual conduct (as defined in
IC 35-31.5-2-221.5) with an animal, or any fondling or touching
of a child by another person or of another person by a child
intended to arouse or satisfy the sexual desires of either the
child or the other person.
(b) A person who:
(1) knowingly or intentionally manages, produces, sponsors,
presents, exhibits, photographs, films, videotapes, or creates a
digitized image of any performance or incident that includes
sexual conduct by a child under eighteen (18) years of age;
(2) knowingly or intentionally disseminates, exhibits to another
person, offers to disseminate or exhibit to another person, or
sends or brings into Indiana for dissemination or exhibition
matter that depicts or describes sexual conduct by a child under
eighteen (18) years of age;
(3) knowingly or intentionally makes available to another
person a computer, knowing that the computer's fixed drive or
peripheral device contains matter that depicts or describes
sexual conduct by a child less than eighteen (18) years of age;
or
(4) with the intent to satisfy or arouse the sexual desires of any
person:
(A) knowingly or intentionally:
(i) manages;
(ii) produces;
(iii) sponsors;
(iv) presents;
(v) exhibits;
(vi) photographs;
(vii) films;
(viii) videotapes; or
(ix) creates a digitized image of;
any performance or incident that includes the uncovered
genitals of a child less than eighteen (18) years of age or the
exhibition of the female breast with less than a fully opaque
covering of any part of the nipple by a child less than
eighteen (18) years of age;
(B) knowingly or intentionally:
(i) disseminates to another person;
(ii) exhibits to another person;
(iii) offers to disseminate or exhibit to another person; or
(iv) sends or brings into Indiana for dissemination or
exhibition;
matter that depicts the uncovered genitals of a child less than
eighteen (18) years of age or the exhibition of the female
breast with less than a fully opaque covering of any part of
the nipple by a child less than eighteen (18) years of age; or
(C) makes available to another person a computer, knowing
that the computer's fixed drive or peripheral device contains
matter that depicts the uncovered genitals of a child less than
eighteen (18) years of age or the exhibition of the female
breast with less than a fully opaque covering of any part of
the nipple by a child less than eighteen (18) years of age;
commits child exploitation, a Level 5 felony.
(c) A person who knowingly or intentionally possesses:
(1) a picture;
(2) a drawing;
(3) a photograph;
(4) a negative image;
(5) undeveloped film;
(6) a motion picture;
(7) a videotape;
(8) a digitized image; or
(9) any pictorial representation;
that depicts or describes sexual conduct by a child who the person
knows is less than eighteen (18) years of age or who appears to be
less than eighteen (18) years of age, and that lacks serious literary,
artistic, political, or scientific value commits possession of child
pornography, a Level 6 felony.
(d) Subsections (b) and (c) do not apply to a bona fide school,
museum, or public library that qualifies for certain property tax
exemptions under IC 6-1.1-10, or to an employee of such a school,
museum, or public library acting within the scope of the employee's
employment when the possession of the listed materials is for
legitimate scientific or educational purposes.
(e) It is a defense to a prosecution under this section that:
(1) the person is a school employee; and
(2) the acts constituting the elements of the offense were
performed solely within the scope of the person's employment
as a school employee.
(f) Except as provided in subsection (g), it is a defense to a
prosecution under subsection (b) or (c) if all of the following apply:
(1) A cellular telephone, another wireless or cellular
communications device, or a social networking web site was
used to possess, produce, or disseminate the image.
(2) The defendant is not more than four (4) years older or
younger than the person who is depicted in the image or who
received the image.
(3) The relationship between the defendant and the person who
received the image or who is depicted in the image was a dating
relationship or an ongoing personal relationship. For purposes
of this subdivision, the term "ongoing personal relationship"
does not include a family relationship.
(4) The crime was committed by a person less than twenty-two
(22) years of age.
(5) The person receiving the image or who is depicted in the
image acquiesced in the defendant's conduct.
(g) The defense to a prosecution described in subsection (f) does
not apply if:
(1) the person who receives the image disseminates it to a
person other than the person:
(A) who sent the image; or
(B) who is depicted in the image;
(2) the image is of a person other than the person who sent the
image or received the image; or
(3) the dissemination of the image violates:
(A) a protective order to prevent domestic or family violence
issued under IC 34-26-5 (or, if the order involved a family or
household member, under IC 34-26-2 or IC 34-4-5.1-5
before their repeal);
(B) an ex parte protective order issued under IC 34-26-5 (or,
if the order involved a family or household member, an
emergency order issued under IC 34-26-2 or IC 34-4-5.1
before their repeal);
(C) a workplace violence restraining order issued under
IC 34-26-6;
(D) a no contact order in a dispositional decree issued under
IC 31-34-20-1, IC 31-37-19-1, or IC 31-37-5-6 (or
IC 31-6-4-15.4 or IC 31-6-4-15.9 before their repeal) or an
order issued under IC 31-32-13 (or IC 31-6-7-14 before its
repeal) that orders the person to refrain from direct or
indirect contact with a child in need of services or a
delinquent child;
(E) a no contact order issued as a condition of pretrial
release, including release on bail or personal recognizance,
or pretrial diversion, and including a no contact order issued
under IC 35-33-8-3.6;
(F) a no contact order issued as a condition of probation;
(G) a protective order to prevent domestic or family violence
issued under IC 31-15-5 (or IC 31-16-5 or IC 31-1-11.5-8.2
before their repeal);
(H) a protective order to prevent domestic or family violence
issued under IC 31-14-16-1 in a paternity action;
(I) a no contact order issued under IC 31-34-25 in a child in
need of services proceeding or under IC 31-37-25 in a
juvenile delinquency proceeding;
(J) an order issued in another state that is substantially
similar to an order described in clauses (A) through (I);
(K) an order that is substantially similar to an order
described in clauses (A) through (I) and is issued by an
Indian:
(i) tribe;
(ii) band;
(iii) pueblo;
(iv) nation; or
(v) organized group or community, including an Alaska
Native village or regional or village corporation as defined
in or established under the Alaska Native Claims
Settlement Act (43 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.);
that is recognized as eligible for the special programs and
services provided by the United States to Indians because of
their special status as Indians;
(L) an order issued under IC 35-33-8-3.2; or
(M) an order issued under IC 35-38-1-30.
(h) It is a defense to a prosecution under this section that:
(1) the person was less than eighteen (18) years of age at the
time the alleged offense was committed; and
(2) the circumstances described in IC 35-45-4-6(a)(2) through
IC 35-45-4-6(a)(4) apply.
(i) A person is entitled to present the defense described in
subsection (h) in a pretrial hearing. If a person proves by a
preponderance of the evidence in a pretrial hearing that the defense
described in subsection (h) applies, the court shall dismiss the
charges under this section with prejudice.
[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT,Italic][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT,Italic]As added by Acts 1978, P.L.148, SEC.5. Amended by P.L.325-1983,
SEC.1; P.L.206-1986, SEC.1; P.L.37-1990, SEC.25; P.L.59-1995,
SEC.3; P.L.216-1996, SEC.19; P.L.3-2002, SEC.2; P.L.216-2007,
SEC.43; P.L.180-2011, SEC.3; P.L.6-2012, SEC.226; P.L.181-2013,
SEC.1; P.L.214-2013, SEC.38; P.L.158-2013, SEC.440;
P.L.168-2014, SEC.69.
[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT,Italic][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT,Italic][/FONT][/FONT]

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Except that that defense was added to about 4-5 different offenses, so no. Look at he 2010 35-49-3-4 vs the current one.

I'm looking at it. What am I supposed to see in regards to lowering the age of consent by two years?

 

[Fargo]

I'm looking at it. What am I supposed to see in regards to lowering the age of consent by two years?

2014:

Indiana Code 35-49-3-4. Defense to prosecution for dissemination of matter or conducting performance harmful to minors

Current as of: 2014 | Check for updates | Other versions

Sec. 4. (a) It is a defense to a prosecution under section 3 of this
chapter for the defendant to show:
(1) that the matter was disseminated or that the performance was performed for legitimate scientific or educational purposes;
(2) that the matter was disseminated or displayed to or that the performance was performed before the recipient by a bona fide school, museum, or public library that qualifies for certain property tax exemptions under IC 6-1.1-10, or by an employee of such a school, museum, or public library acting within the scope of the employee’s employment;
(3) that the defendant had reasonable cause to believe that the minor involved was eighteen (18) years of age or older and that the minor exhibited to the defendant a draft card, driver’s license, birth certificate, or other official or apparently official document purporting to establish that the minor was eighteen (18) years of age or older; or
(4) that the defendant was a salesclerk, motion picture projectionist, usher, or ticket taker, acting within the scope of the defendant’s employment and that the defendant had no financial interest in the place where the defendant was so employed.
(b) Except as provided in subsection (c), it is a defense to a prosecution under section 3 of this chapter if all the following apply: (1) A cellular telephone, another wireless or cellular communications device, or a social networking web site was
used to disseminate matter to a minor that is harmful to minors. (2) The defendant is not more than four (4) years older or younger than the person who received the matter that is harmful to minors.
(3) The relationship between the defendant and the person who received the matter that is harmful to minors was a dating relationship or an ongoing personal relationship. For purposes of this subdivision, the term “ongoing personal relationship” does not include a family relationship.
(4) The crime was committed by a person less than twenty-two
(22) years of age.
(5) The person receiving the matter expressly or implicitly acquiesced in the defendant’s conduct.
(c) The defense to a prosecution described in subsection (b) does not apply if:
(1) the image is disseminated to a person other than the person: (A) who sent the image; or
(B) who is depicted in the image; or
(2) the dissemination of the image violates:
(A) a protective order to prevent domestic or family violence issued under IC 34-26-5 (or, if the order involved a family or household member, under IC 34-26-2 or IC 34-4-5.1-5 before their repeal);
(B) an ex parte protective order issued under IC 34-26-5 (or, if the order involved a family or household member, an emergency order issued under IC 34-26-2 or IC 34-4-5.1 before their repeal);
(C) a workplace violence restraining order issued under
IC 34-26-6;
(D) a no contact order in a dispositional decree issued under IC 31-34-20-1, IC 31-37-19-1, or IC 31-37-5-6 (or IC 31-6-4-15.4 or IC 31-6-4-15.9 before their repeal) or an order issued under IC 31-32-13 (or IC 31-6-7-14 before its repeal) that orders the person to refrain from direct or indirect contact with a child in need of services or a delinquent child;
(E) a no contact order issued as a condition of pretrial release, including release on bail or personal recognizance, or pretrial diversion, and including a no contact order issued under IC 35-33-8-3.6;
(F) a no contact order issued as a condition of probation; (G) a protective order to prevent domestic or family violence issued under IC 31-15-5 (or IC 31-16-5 or IC 31-1-11.5-8.2 before their repeal);
(H) a protective order to prevent domestic or family violence issued under IC 31-14-16-1 in a paternity action;
(I) a no contact order issued under IC 31-34-25 in a child in need of services proceeding or under IC 31-37-25 in a juvenile delinquency proceeding;
(J) an order issued in another state that is substantially
similar to an order described in clauses (A) through (I);
(K) an order that is substantially similar to an order described in clauses (A) through (I) and is issued by an Indian:
(i) tribe; (ii) band; (iii) pueblo;
(iv) nation; or
(v) organized group or community, including an Alaska Native village or regional or village corporation as defined in or established under the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (43 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.);
that is recognized as eligible for the special programs and services provided by the United States to Indians because of their special status as Indians;
(L) an order issued under IC 35-33-8-3.2; or
(M) an order issued under IC 35-38-1-30.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.33. Amended by P.L.180-2011, SEC.4; P.L.158-2013, SEC.649.
IC 35-50

https://www.lawserver.com/law/state/indiana/in-code/indiana_code_35-49-3-4

2010

IC 35-49-3-4
Defense to prosecution for dissemination of matter or conducting
performance harmful to minors
Sec. 4. It is a defense to a prosecution under section 3 of this
chapter for the defendant to show:
(1) that the matter was disseminated or that the performance
was performed for legitimate scientific or educational purposes;
(2) that the matter was disseminated or displayed to or that the
performance was performed before the recipient by a bona fide
school, museum, or public library that qualifies for certain
property tax exemptions under IC 6-1.1-10, or by an employee
of such a school, museum, or public library acting within the
scope of his employment;
(3) that he had reasonable cause to believe that the minor
involved was eighteen (18) years old or older and that the minor
exhibited to the defendant a draft card, driver's license, birth
certificate, or other official or apparently official document
purporting to establish that the minor was eighteen (18) years
old or older; or
(4) that he was a salesclerk, motion picture projectionist, usher,
or ticket taker, acting within the scope of his employment and
that he had no financial interest in the place where he was so
employed.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.33.

Note that the last amendment is 2013.

Also note the years of the last two amendments to the child porn statute I added above.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

2014:



https://www.lawserver.com/law/state/indiana/in-code/indiana_code_35-49-3-4

2010


Note that the last amendment is 2013.

Also note the years of the last two amendments to the child porn statute I added above.

We've already covered that ground. Yes, the code was amended so that a dating teenage couple who sent nudies to each other aren't charged with distributing child porn, and was done so in response to some questionable applications of the law to charge people in those instances. It's still illegal to distribute those beyond the dating couple, both must be consenting, etc.

 

[Fargo]

We've already covered that ground. Yes, the code was amended so that a dating teenage couple who sent nudies to each other aren't charged with distributing child porn, and was done so in response to some questionable applications of the law to charge people in those instances. It's still illegal to distribute those beyond the dating couple, both must be consenting, etc.

Yes, in the last 10 years, multiple statutes have been revised at multiple different times to allow sexual conduct and filming of sexual conduct at a younger age that previously allowed in certain circumstances. I believe we are in agreement about this.

Sexual Misconduct with a minor was amended in 2007 to allow sex with 14 year olds in certain circumstances, while previously it was a hard line of 16 years of age.

Child Porn and Distribution of Material Harmful to a minor were amended in 2013-2014 to allow filming of sex acts by children as young as 14 in certain circumstances. Previously, it was a hard line of 18 for child porn.

I understand the reasons for this, but it doesn't change the actual effect which was to reduce the age of consent.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Yes, in the last 10 years, multiple statutes have been revised at multiple different times to allow sexual conduct and filming of sexual conduct at a younger age that previously allowed in certain circumstances. I believe we are in agreement about this.

Sexual Misconduct with a minor was amended in 2007 to allow sex with 14 year olds in certain circumstances, while previously it was a hard line of 16 years of age.

Child Porn and Distribution of Material Harmful to a minor were amended in 2013-2014 to allow filming of sex acts by children as young as 14 in certain circumstances. Previously, it was a hard line of 18 for child porn.

I understand the reasons for this, but it doesn't change the actual effect which was to reduce the age of consent.

Works for me. I just don't see it as a trend, especially given the very narrow confines the age of consent laws were changed in.

 

[Dead Duck]

Just checking "Hypothetically" here.
I won't go to jail for having consensual sex with a 14 year old girl?

 

[Fargo]

Just checking "Hypothetically" here.
I won't go to jail for having consensual sex with a 14 year old girl?

Depends on how old you are.

 

[Dead Duck]

Depends on how old you are.

Why? Is this bad?

 

[Fargo]

Works for me. I just don't see it as a trend, especially given the very narrow confines the age of consent laws were changed in.

I think we just disagree as to what constitutes a "trend". IMO, multiple statutes in multiple years, plus the fact that this has recently changed in multiple states, constitutes a trend. Off the top of my head, Florida, Conn., and Texas all have followed a pattern similar to Indiana in the last few years.

10 years ago I don't know of any state that allowed sex with 14 year olds by an adult under any circumstance outside of marriage but I confess I haven't researched all of them.

 

[Fargo]

Why? Is this bad?

Because, the statute says that if you are having sex with people less than 16, you have to be no more than 4 years older than them.

 

[Dead Duck]

Because, the statute says that if you are having sex with people less than 16, you have to be no more than 4 years older than them.

Whew! Thank God.

She was 14 years old. At the time I was 12 so technically, she was an older woman.

Wait....Does this mean she's in trouble?

 

[Fargo]

Whew! Thank God.

She was 14 years old. At the time I was 12 so technically, she was an older woman.

Wait....Does this mean she's in trouble?

She committed child molest, prior to 2007 you would have been committing Sexual Misconduct with a Minor.

 

[Dead Duck]

I'm just a criminal with a big smile.

 

[IndyDave1776]

C) makes available to another person a computer, knowing
that the computer's fixed drive or peripheral device contains
matter that depicts the uncovered genitals of a child less than
eighteen (18) years of age or the exhibition of the female
breast with less than a fully opaque covering of any part of
the nipple by a child less than eighteen (18) years of age;
commits child exploitation, a Level 5 felony.
(c) A person who knowingly or intentionally possesses:
(1) a picture;
(2) a drawing;
(3) a photograph;
(4) a negative image;
(5) undeveloped film;
(6) a motion picture;
(7) a videotape;
(8) a digitized image; or
(9) any pictorial representation;
that depicts or describes sexual conduct by a child who the person
knows is less than eighteen (18) years of age or who appears to be
less than eighteen (18) years of age, and that lacks serious literary,
artistic, political, or scientific value commits possession of child
pornography, a Level 6 felony.

So, if I draw a stick figure in a suggestive pose with another stick figure half as tall, I am a felon?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So, if I draw a stick figure in a suggestive pose with another stick figure half as tall, I am a felon?

So, you have seen my etchings from the Felony Staff Meetings at the Prosecuting Attorney's office in the 1990s.

 

[Fargo]

So, if I draw a stick figure in a suggestive pose with another stick figure half as tall, I am a felon?

If it can be proven BRD that you intentionally were depicting sexual conduct and that it is clear that it was with a child and you intended it to be a child, then yes.

As a practical matter, that is not generally what sex crimes detectives and prosecutors are looking for. There is plenty of truly nasty **** out there.

 

[ghuns]

I am not advocating that standard as a proper principle by which to live...

The standard and proper principle by which to live can be express in the following formula; 1/2 your age + 7.

 

[jamil]

The standard and proper principle by which to live can be express in the following formula; 1/2 your age + 7.

Wait. So a rich 80 year old man can't have a twenty something wife? That sounds more like a war on women.