Is it EVER ok to treat a gun like its not loaded?

[chezuki]

Do you like the Shield?

Definitely, and I already knew this it's just not in the budget right now. The wife liked it too, which was the purpose yesterday... To get her on board.

 

[MCgrease08]

You followed the 4 rules but still failed the test. It sounds like your future father-in-law was in fact testing you to see if you would check that the gun was clear.

I'm guessing that after the lecture he gave, you'll check for yourself next time. Maybe that was his intent.

 

[jimmythang]

Shotgun wedding anyone?

 

[KoopaKGB]

I trust this guy ^ completely and watched him clear several pistols he handed me yesterday... But I still verified each of them. At one point he cleared a shield and handed me, I cleared it again and when I handed it to my wife to check out, she cleared it yet again. It's something you just have to do every single time.

Agreed. It can be redundant to the point of being silly. BUT this redundancy ensures a safe weapons handling environment.

 

[ctbreitwieser]

I really dislike the new mantra the guns are always loaded. That is simple an untruth.
Honestly. All guns are not loaded.
I know people mean well when they say this, but it's simply false.
Without a doubt. You MUST ALWAYS treat an assembled gun as if it were loaded.

This new thing reminds me of how "they" tried to protect kids from the scourge of AIDS by telling them that the disease would be rampant if they remained sexually active and/or did not use protection. As a child of the 80s, I can tell you it didn't take us long to realize that they didn't know what they were talking about.

This "always loaded" crap could also water down the real rules.
In a SHTF situation, your "always loaded" gun may leave an ignorant person unarmed.
Think about it.

To the OP:

Im sure it stung to be corrected by a future father-in-law. But I would guess that he was trying to learn ya. Because he IS the father figure, and he IS going to trust you with his future grand kids. He cared enough to do the right thing. Even if that meant hurting feelings.
As a father myself, I can almost say for certain that he did what he did because he loves you.

I was going say this exact same thing, but you said it for me. "EVERY gun is NOT loaded, but should be treated as if it were". Preach that instead and stop making false statements about it. If anything, that kind of stuff is what scares away the uninformed.

 

[SubUrbanCamo317]

I was at my fiancée's parents' place and her dad and I are getting ready to go shooting. Her dad brings a few guns into the room, including a Star Model B, puts them on the table, and walks out of the room.

Now I'm not stupid. I know her dad would never place a gun on a table and walk out of the room without clearing it first. He's a safety nut when it comes to his guns. So when he comes back and says that's everything I pick up the Star.

I point the gun in a safe direction and keep my finger off the trigger. He just loses it and starts yelling at me about not being safe with guns because I didn't clear it before I picked it up and looked at it and that I should always treat a gun like its loaded (I pointed the gun in a safe direction and kept my finger off the trigger).

Now that leads me to ask, was I safe with the gun and is it ever ok to treat a gun like its not loaded?

To me this sounds like he freaked out, and I dont deal with people that freak out. I prefer that the tone is calm and rather easy. You obeyed all the rules, but you forgot a side note. It happens, dont beat yourself up. Just remember that you always check for a clear chamber and empty mag well. I have a habit of dropping the mag out and setting it aside so there is no confusion. If it helps, point the barrel upward and look into the chamber. If you can see light, your good to go. If you want to put your pinky into the chamber, more power to ya. I personally wont put my finger into the chamber for the sake of my finger. (Had a S&W 5904 snap closed on my pinky). Just train yourself to ALWAYS check a firearm to be sure its empty. Other wise you could slip up and have a ND.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Only when its a blue gun. Otherwise, check, check and triple check.

 

[IUprof]

No, always, Always, ALWAYS, double check to make sure it is clear. I do even when I am at the gun shop and they just checked it for clear.

^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[EAS]

The guns in my safe have an INGO flag in them. I always clear a gun before handing it to someone or if receiving it from someone else and I teach my kids to do the same even if that person is returning the gun.

 

[HoughMade]

I only hand a pistol to someone after the magazine is removed and the slide locked back.

I personally verify that any gun represented to me as empty, is in fact empty. Dumb not to.

BTW- those who are embarrassed tend to describe their dressing down as "yelling" or "freaking out", regardless.

 

[bluewraith]

There is no such thing as an unloaded gun if the gun is assembled. Never assume. My son's make me proud when we go to an LGS and the salesman hands me a gun after checking it. I check it and when I hand it to my son's, they naturally check it themselves. It takes no effort and is a really good way to lower the risk of an ND. After spending some time with a bunch of SF guys back from deployment, they convinced me that a visual check is not enough, so now when handling a gun, I do a tactile check of the chamber, mag well and breech face. That habit is just as effective in the dark as it is in a brightly lit room.

I used to do the tactile check.. until I tripped the slide release of my 1911 from the inside. Took about 6 months for my fingernail to grow to look normal again. On the plus side, I learned where to *not* stick my finger in a 1911, and now remember to keep pressure on the slide release when I do.

Even when you are at home admiring the collection, get into a habit of checking and clearing every time you pick it up, first thing. I check when I pick it up, before handing it to somebody, when they hand it back, and again before I put it away. Repetitive? Yes. Silly? Not to me.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Why aren't there 5 rules then?

I just handled one of my guns, followed the 4 rules, I assume it is loaded but I didnt check. So what? Where is the inherent danger in what I just did?

 

[chezuki]

So what? Where is the inherent danger in what I just did?

The likelihood that you were drunk while doing it.

 

[Bunnykid68]

The likelihood that you were drunk while doing it.

Not a drop to drink today other than some soda pop, been a little under the weather the last few days.

 

[Mackey]

Why aren't there 5 rules then?

I just handled one of my guns, followed the 4 rules, I assume it is loaded but I didnt check. So what? Where is the inherent danger in what I just did?

Rabbits have no thumbs

 

[Amishman44]

1. Every gun is always loaded (especially when your sure it isn't)
2. Never point it at something unless you want to kill it
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to pull it.
4. Don't pull the trigger until you're sure of the target and background.

It sounds to me like you followed the four rules. By keeping it pointed in a safe direction you were treating it as if it were loaded (rules 1 & 2) and by keeping your finger off the trigger you followed 3 & 4.

Missed one...every gun is considered loaded unless you just personally checked/verified that it was not...and left the breach/slide open!

If you're not doing these things when you first pick up a gun...regardless of whether or not someone else has 'just checked it'...I wouldn't want to be around you when you're handling a gun, period! If you can't/don't/won't do it yourself...then you probably shouldn't be handling a gun!

Q: Do you simply drive down the road in the opposing lane even when traffic is coming?

It's amazing the number of times I've been in a gun shop and watch a sales rep pick up a pistol (not always check the chamber for load/unloaded), hand it to a customer who then immediately grasps the pistol in a firing motion, finger on the trigger, and then dry fire it, while pointing it at or close to the sales person or a fellow customer!

Practice safety right the first time...every time! If not, the one (more) time you do it wrong it could cost you...a friend, a spouse, a child, a parent, etc. At our house, even while out shooting, the breach/slide/cylinder is open until ready to fire!

Practice safety every time...if you don't, then it's not a priority for you! If you can't do it safely, then please don't handle a firearm!
(Rant over...not intending to be mean about it, but please practice every safety tip every time! We do it at our house!)

 

[MikeDVB]

I hate the rack the chamber several times thing...maybe i'm just paranoid but what if that extractor aint working...you should always visually check the chamber.

The idea is in case the magazine you thought was empty wasn't empty or if you thought it didn't have one in it but it did.

If you rack it twice and both times you get a round - it wasn't just the 'one in the chamber.'

If you rack it three times and all three times you get a round - well, you know.

If you rack it only once and get a round - it could be the one in the chamber or it could have a loaded magazine - racking the slide again is the quickest and easiest way to find out and doing it a third time for good measure isn't a bad idea.

That said - if you rack it two or three times and get a round two or three times - you should remove the magazine [as it obviously has one installed with ammo in it] and then finish clearing the weapon.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

If I were you, when you picked up the gun, I would have racked the slide a couple times to make sure it was empty. Then point it in a safe direction with your finger off the trigger.

And as he racked the slide a round pops out of the ejection chamber and another one is loaded into the chamber.... over and over again. ALWAYS pull the magazine out FIRST.... then open the action to verify the chamber and down through the handle are CLEAR. (notice I didn't say unloaded!)

As for the OP:

NEVER handle a firearm without first clearing the action.

No, it's never okay to treat a gun like it's not loaded. If you apply this one simple rule: EVERY GUN IS LOADED you will never utter the words.... "I didn't think it was loaded!"

 

[.452browning]

I sell guns 40hrs a week. I ALWAYS open, clear, and lock the action if possible before handing a weapon to a customer. When I am given the weapon back I always open and check the action. It is habit and nothing personal against the customer. If they get crappy then so be it.

 

[stephen87]

I never physically check it, but I do visually check it twice.