Is 2022 Elections going to be a Red Tidal Wave?

[jamil]

I guess Black, and Hispanics were wrongheaded in switching over with their support gained under Trump because they were fooled into believing that it was Trump's policies that benefited them.

Like I said, it is possible to separate his policies from his personality. It's like the new saying, the right says facts don't care about your feelings, the left says their feelings don't care about your facts. If it comes down to facts, like this policy tends to have that effect on this or that, and then deduce causes and such. Personality didn't influence those things. If it comes down to feelings, then personality does matter. So there's that difference in priorities at play. You can't bridge that gap in thinking without a mutual ability to think as the other.

The feeling side isn't inconsequential. Or we all might as well be robots. It's an issue of priority. Like someone mentioned the other day about the kids that murdered a foster dad or something. Some people on the jury felt sorry for the kids and couldn't convict. The priority on justice has to favor objectivity. Feelings aren't nothing, but they certainly aren't everything, or even primary.

 

[KG1]

The rest of the world is also progressive, in some ways more than the US. At least we don't have codified censorship (we just have progressive administrations using big tech as a proxy). But anyway, of course the world went along with top-down information control, and lockdowns. That was a power grab. Your president just renewed the emergency declaration. There's no emergency. But it gives him power to do stuff. And you're okay with that. It's a blindspot progressives have, just like Trumpers have a blindspot to the legitimate criticisms of Trump.

Progressives are incapable of thinking in terms of national self-reliance. You will not find a progressive Democrat speaking in front of congress warning about our need to become MORE self-reliant. You don't hear the chamber-o-commerce republicans, like Mitch McConnell, talking about that either, except when pandering to voters. Those are talking points you hear from "Trumpism".

Trumpism is indeed primarily America first. You've heard it from the premiere INGO Trumper himself say it. He's not lying about that. And that's very patriotic. Of course, the cult of Trumpism, is real too. And that is indeed Trump-first, which is problematic. Unfortunately it may be the only way we get to some version of America-first. I want America first. It's what every countryman should want. Brits should be GB first. Russia should be Russia-first. And so on.

The great divide comes from Leftist Progs describing and pushing the narrative that America first "Trumpism" is a form of populist fascism.

 

[LeftyGunner]

The great divide comes from Leftist Progs describing America first "Trumpism" as a form of populist fascism.

January 6th makes a strong argument against Trumpism’s “America First” claims.

Claiming electoral fraud to hold onto power after losing an election is pretty much classic populist fascism.

The divide isn’t due to leftist progs alone…we’re all at this dance, yourself included.

 

[jamil]

The great divide comes from Leftist Progs describing America first "Trumpism" as a form of populist fascism.

This is a great point. It's intellectually dishonest to claim Trump is any kind of fascist. Joe Biden has shown more fascistic policies than Trump ever did. And progressives are not capable of seeing that.

I wouldn't say the Trumpist version of America-first is the best version of America-first, because part of that involves Trump having to foist himself in the center of it constantly. But that's not fascism. It's just a rich dude on the extreme spectrum of type-a personality with an oversized ego, having to make himself the center of everything. But I have no doubt that he wants to put America first, with the disclaimer his version always has him in charge.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I could see this happening.

 

[KG1]

This is a great point. It's intellectually dishonest to claim Trump is any kind of fascist. Joe Biden has shown more fascistic policies than Trump ever did. And progressives are not capable of seeing that.

I wouldn't say the Trumpist version of America-first is the best version of America-first, because part of that involves Trump having to foist himself in the center of it constantly. But that's not fascism. It's just a rich dude on the extreme spectrum of type-a personality with an oversized ego, having to make himself the center of everything. But I have no doubt that he wants to put America first, with the disclaimer his version always has him in charge.

Exactly. My point is we are talking about the effects of Trump's policies, The bottom line is Trump's rejection was based on personality and not policy. His policies were not fascist. His America first policies were meant to benefit all Americans. Americans weren't affected negatively by Trump's policies while he was in office,

 

[jamil]

January 6th makes a strong argument against Trumpism’s “America First” claims.

I think Trump felt cheated. And that's somewhat true. Remember the Time piece that admitted a cabal of people worked to subvert Trump's reelection. They changed voting rules under the guise of covid precaution that would favor democrats favorite electioneering tactic of ballot harvesting. You can't get zoomers to vote unless you interrupt their day, hand them a ballot filled out the way you want, tell them Nazis are taking over the country unless they sign the ballot.

I don't think the Kraken happened. That was all nonsense. But there's plenty of evidence that election rules changed, and a major outlet published an op ed admitting to it.

Point is, Trump ****ed himself by his reaction to all that. I think he thinks of himself as America's hope. If he loses, America loses. In some sense that was true. I mean. Look where we are now. Look at all the problems Democrats have caused.

Claiming electoral fraud to hold onto power after losing an election is pretty much classic populist fascism.

The divide isn’t due to leftist progs alone…we’re all at this dance, yourself included.

So was it classic populist fascism when Hillary claimed election fraud? How about Abrams? Any of the many Democrats who claimed fraud when they lost? That isn't whataboutism. Trump should have put his big boy pants on and went about fighting what he thought was injustice a different way. But if you think what he did was populist fascism, let me suggest you might not know what that means, first, and second, that makes all the Democrats who did it, populist fascists too.

It's what sore losers do. Claiming fascism doesn't help your credibility here because everyone knows that's not intellectually honest.

 

[jamil]

I could see this happening.

Yeah. I have no doubt that he would do something like that. He is an establishment-first chamber-o-commerce good ole boy.

 

[BugI02]

January 6th makes a strong argument against Trumpism’s “America First” claims.

Claiming electoral fraud to hold onto power after losing an election is pretty much classic populist fascism.

The divide isn’t due to leftist progs alone…we’re all at this dance, yourself included.

Failing to do a good faith investigation of fraud claims, proclaiming that there is no evidence because you will not allow it to be examined, in order to attain and hold on to power is pretty much classic progressive marxist fascism

If your side had wanted to avoid 1/6, they could have done that examination of evidence instead of stonewall. I don't think your side wanted to avoid 1/6, I think they wanted to guarantee it

The irregularities were there in 2020 and again last week, to overlook that is willful blindness

 

[BugI02]

I could see this happening.

I posted in another thread, I think. Bashear's legislature stripped him of the power to appoint a replacement for a vacancy, and then overrode his veto, last year

I originally thought McConnell would have that leverage until I researched it. Now he can be squeezed

'Nice relationship with China you have there Mitch. It would be a shame if an investigation happened to it'

 

[jamil]

No, the “If I lose the election it will be because of fraud“ that lead to chants of “hang Mike Pence” from a crowd of Trump supporters gathered around a gallows they built on the Capitol grounds kind…that’s what I’m talking about.

Outside of his own sycophants, I don’t know anyone who actually believes Trump was the reason for any of the Fox News talking points you listed in your post.

The real Trump was so great he loses elections when he’s not even on the ticket.

One other thing, rereading this reminds me of another point. How can one be against this without also acknowledging their own side's similar actions? You care about Jan 6 and seem to view it as more than it was. And I'm not making light of what happened. In terms of severity, was May 29 2020 really any less of an assault on democracy?

I think the dangerous rhetoric needs to stop. Both sides. We see Joe Biden basically call half of America domestic terrorists during a speech with a bizarre looking totalitarian backdrop, and then we have violent actions against conservatives. And it happens on the opposite end too. It's because both sides say the worst things about their political opponents. Where "political opponents" are just regular people. How about stop claiming we're all fascists/domestic terrorists?

Jan 6 was a reaction from people who thought they got cheated, and according to Time Magazine, they did. Maybe not "Kraken" cheated. But still cheated. It was an inappropriate reaction, yes. But the Democrats' reaction to it is completely disproportionate to their reaction to May 20, 2020 when protestors aligned with them tried to storm the White House, presumably to...well...I'm sure you know what they had in mind if they got in.

 

[Ingomike]

Your opinion is that Trump’s policies enabled these things to take place…however the facts upon which you base that opinion are not in evidence in this conversation.

The facts are much broader and much more muddled than that...much of what you would give credit to Trump for was caused by global economic conditions beyond the control of any one government, let alone any one politician.

We can agree on one thing, you don’t know about facts…

 

[LeftyGunner]

I think Trump felt cheated. And that's somewhat true. Remember the Time piece that admitted a cabal of people worked to subvert Trump's reelection. They changed voting rules under the guise of covid precaution that would favor democrats favorite electioneering tactic of ballot harvesting. You can't get zoomers to vote unless you interrupt their day, hand them a ballot filled out the way you want, tell them Nazis are taking over the country unless they sign the ballot.

I don't think the Kraken happened. That was all nonsense. But there's plenty of evidence that election rules changed, and a major outlet published an op ed admitting to it.

Point is, Trump ****ed himself by his reaction to all that. I think he thinks of himself as America's hope. If he loses, America loses. In some sense that was true. I mean. Look where we are now. Look at all the problems Democrats have caused.


So was it classic populist fascism when Hillary claimed election fraud? How about Abrams? Any of the many Democrats who claimed fraud when they lost? That isn't whataboutism. Trump should have put his big boy pants on and went about fighting what he thought was injustice a different way. But if you think what he did was populist fascism, let me suggest you might not know what that means, first, and second, that makes all the Democrats who did it, populist fascists too.

It's what sore losers do. Claiming fascism doesn't help your credibility here because everyone knows that's not intellectually honest.

This is what I’m talking about when I say a war of semantics. I shouldn’t have used that term, you are correct in that it is not technically applicable to this situation. I grabbed It from the post I was replying to and went with more of an “in context” colloquial definition in order to tie my response to his. My apologies for my lack of clarity, and any misunderstandings that has caused.

While I certainly have no problems calling out Clinton a d the rest for any of their election fraud claims but, to my knowledge, none of those people’s followers used violence against their elected officials in an attempt to keep (or put) their chosen candidate in power.

Trump’s people actually did those things, because they believed Trump wanted them to, that Trump told them to. Those are more than just the actions of a sore loser, those are the actions of a would-be tyrant.

So, again, you are correct. I used the wrong term. My apologies.

 

[Ingomike]

I don’t think I’m alone in this...away from here anyways, lol.

You are definitely not alone in this, you were propagandized but the totality of media…

 

[Ingomike]

that isn’t a strong underpinning for a fact-based view of the world around us, or others in it.

There never was so called “fact based” news when our parents believed everything on the tube. Walter Conkite was shaping narratives before that was even a term…

 

[DadSmith]

Mark Kelly (D) took AZ Senate. Senate tied 49-49 right now. if Laxault (R) doesent hold on and take Nev. then we need to win in Ga. runoff just to tie the Senate at 50-50 again.

If things didn't get so mucked up in losing Pa. then at least the Republicans would have been at 50 seats right now with two chances still left to take the Senate. Now they're in danger of losing the whole damn thing. How the hell did this even happen?

Laxault (R) up by only less than 1k now (down from 9K lead) from last vote count in Nev. Senate race with 95% reporting in. Virtual tie.

Laxualt (R) 468,437 48.5%

Cortez Masto (D) 467,575 48.4 %

House Race. Democrats gaining ground. Republicans haven't moved any in the count. Been stuck on 211. Need 218 for the win. I swear this is total bull **** if Dems retain the house. I find it damn hard to believe. if they do then there will have been absolutely no gain in control of Congress in this midterm election. It should not even have been anywhere near this close. WTF.

(R ) 211

(D) 199

Cortez gained over 10k all at once and closed the gap. No cheating going on there just an honest find of 10k plus ballots all for Cortez.

 

[Twangbanger]

...I think the dangerous rhetoric needs to stop. Both sides. We see Joe Biden basically call half of America domestic terrorists during a speech with a bizarre looking totalitarian backdrop, and then we have violent actions against conservatives. And it happens on the opposite end too. It's because both sides say the worst things about their political opponents. Where "political opponents" are just regular people. How about stop claiming we're all fascists/domestic terrorists?...

The people at the 1/6 Breaking and Entering were crazy-looking, presumably-uneducated people in viking hats and eye patches. People like LeftyGunner have difficulty coexisting with people like that. Somewhere in their collective past, someone like that figuratively touched their pee-pee. Therefore, those people are sub-human "others." And the subsequent 1/6 pearl clutching had them at "hello."

I thought maybe someone would point out that the Trump-Republican tax cuts caused an economic boom in America - not the rest of the world - and we did better in the Covid-downturn that almost everywhere else. That's not "geopolitical economics." That's the direct result of Trump Administration policies.

But the 1/6 haters are not going to read that in the "Explanatory Vox Inflation Article."

 

[drillsgt]

This is what I’m talking about when I say a war of semantics. I shouldn’t have used that term, you are correct in that it is not technically applicable to this situation. I grabbed It from the post I was replying to and went with more of an “in context” colloquial definition in order to tie my response to his. My apologies for my lack of clarity, and any misunderstandings that has caused.

While I certainly have no problems calling out Clinton a d the rest for any of their election fraud claims but, to my knowledge, none of those people’s followers used violence against their elected officials in an attempt to keep (or put) their chosen candidate in power.

Trump’s people actually did those things, because they believed Trump wanted them to, that Trump told them to. Those are more than just the actions of a sore loser, those are the actions of a would-be tyrant.

So, again, you are correct. I used the wrong term. My apologies.

The would-be-tyrant Clinton's followers did a pretty good number on DC on election night for their chosen candidate but you lefty's forget everything left of Jan 6th.

 

[LeftyGunner]

You are definitely not alone in this, you were propagandized but the totality of media…

Mike, can I ask you please to stop with the digs at my knowledge, my character, or my intelligence?

If we can keep our discussion centered on the topics at hand I would like to continue to engage, if not I see no reason to respond to you.

 

[indyartisan]

2020 was the most free, fair and transparent election ever.