Insulted by Pendleton, IN Chief of Police...

[mrjarrell]

One thing people, especially LEO's need to remember is that the courts have already spoken to the matter of unlawful arrests. We do not want to go down the road that the courts have already lain out. Do we? I'm not going to post the relevant passages here, I don't want to draw the ire of the mods. They're at the source. LEO's need to remember their place and gun owners need to remember theirs. Otherwise we start down the road that no-one wants.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Well, how many? I do know that we at IMPD make about 3,000 arrests so far this year.

Man I must be naive . I wouldn't have thought the number would be so high and climbing .

 

[TODD1]

just by looking at his picture you can tell he's a dueche, pompus ,*** but i can tell you this you did the right thing. no officer can say your on "my property" without being on his real property. As for carrying your dick on your hip maybe he was jealous yours was possibly bigger. this is why the public have a bad view on LEO's although this is a small town cop with a BIG attitude. you know your rights dont let no one step on them

 

[RCB]

I never recommend disrespect to officers, even the bad ones.

That being said, he should have been on top of important updates of that nature.

I know some officers (not the best examples of their profession) that would have hauled you in for public intoxication or creating a disturbance. Even if the charges didn't stick they get to rough you up and make you have a lousy evening (brother has foot in mouth disease...)

Now, if I were wanting to give you trouble, I would have probably based it on your being "lit" and carrying a weapon. Impaired judgment and whatnot.

Glad it turned out as well as it did.

 

[Agent 007]

.

 

[bigus_D]

I'll put my expertise up against yours any day of the week. I've worked in LE for almost 20 years, and have made hundreds of arrests, including hundreds of major felonies while assigned as a detective. I've never been sued for "illegal" arrest. Not once. Nor do I know of any such lawsuits that ended with the plaintiff winning. And I have worked extensively with prosecutors and the courts. Even if someone were to sue and win because of an improper arrest, the award will not be the jackpot that people like you seem to think it will be.

Just because YOU think the arrest is improper or illegal doesn't make it so. What is your field of expertise?

No doubt. YOU ARE THE EXPERT. (Read any response you have made to any post on INGO, and this fact is clear.)

I didn't say this case was "illegal". I didn't say unjustified arrests happen frequently. To say that this DOESN'T EVER happen is completely asinine (not a bad word, clearly passes the filter).

NOTE: I know you didn't actually say that unjustified arrests never happen. But you did suggest it, and you were being fairly jerky about it.

NOTE 2: This is NOT a LEO bash. For the most part, LEO operate in a fair and civil manner. To suggest otherwise is asinine as well. To suggest that I have suggested otherwise is something something... not sure what, but it certainly isn't that. Furthermore, I appreciate the work that LEOs do for the most part.

/*
Note to self, don't question the "authority"
*/

While i as integer =1 < 2
Response.Write("Don't Question The AUTHORITY")
i = i + 0
End While

[/End Thread Jack]

 

[mrjarrell]

I can think of a precedent setting arrest in Indy. The boys in blue arrested current LPIN chairman Sam Goldstein many years ago for flipping them off, after they'd stopped and detained him without cause. The subsequent false arrest and trial showed that IMPD violated his civil rights and clearly pointed out that flipping off a cop is protected speech, whether officer Howdy likes it or not. Calling him a @##**@@ is also protected. Ain't the law fun? False arrests in this country aren't an hourly occurrence but they do happen with some frequency. The only problem with suing is that the boys in blue don't have to pay. The city and, sometimes, the department pay. Usually they just make the taxpayer cough it up. That needs to change. Sovereign immunity is a travesty and needs to be done away with. If the holder of badge number 334 is being sued then he/she needs to pay up. That would help insure civil behaviour on the part of the "few" bad only ones out there.

 

[Denny347]

I can think of a precedent setting arrest in Indy. The boys in blue arrested current LPIN chairman Sam Goldstein many years ago for flipping them off, after they'd stopped and detained him without cause. The subsequent false arrest and trial showed that IMPD violated his civil rights and clearly pointed out that flipping off a cop is protected speech, whether officer Howdy likes it or not. Calling him a @##**@@ is also protected. Ain't the law fun? False arrests in this country aren't an hourly occurrence but they do happen with some frequency. The only problem with suing is that the boys in blue don't have to pay. The city and, sometimes, the department pay. Usually they just make the taxpayer cough it up. That needs to change. Sovereign immunity is a travesty and needs to be done away with. If the holder of badge number 334 is being sued then he/she needs to pay up. That would help insure civil behaviour on the part of the "few" bad only ones out there.

What makes you think we have anything to take? You want my worthless house? My truck that's not paid for? The 200.00 I have in savings? Or a couple of hundred every 2 weeks from my check. People rather sue the city because they can get a lump some for much more than we are worth. I think I know the case you are talking about. It was LONG before IMPD was formed and it was in fact an IUPUI Police Officer with whom I used to work with (after this arrest) and I believe it was heard back in the early 1990's. Again, false arrests happen with some frequency? What facts do you have to support your opinion? I will not say they do not happen but that are rare. I looked up number of arrests in US in 2005 (Most current from the UCR), 14 million arrests in 2005 alone.
Table 29 - Crime in the United States 2005
How many are knowing false arrests (I'm not talking about an arrest with PC that gets dismissed anyway). I am talking about an officer acting outside the scope of his authority. Shpw me the numbers to back up your opinions.

 

[bigus_D]

What makes you think we have anything to take? You want my worthless house? My truck that's not paid for? The 200.00 I have in savings? Or a couple of hundred every 2 weeks from my check.
...

+1 Police officers are underpaid. Teachers too! Just this year a law passed limiting civil suits against teachers. I imagine such a law probably already exists protecting police officers. THANK GOODNESS!

I'd say the direction this thread has taken (sorry for the thread jack... probably my fault ) ... anyhow, the direction this thread has taken gets closer to the real problem with america in this day and age: Entitlement & Civil Suits. (I'll leave it at that... we'll meet next week to discuss)

p.s. My wife is a teacher... anybody want to donate to our retirement account?

 

[RCB]

Had a friend in college who was drunk in my passenger seat. Got pulled over at a check point. Had him get out of the car, then as soon as he set foot outside of the car, arrested him for public intox. While it was bogus... my friend took the plea agreement because it was easier.

As far as false arrest, my neighbor across the hall (apartment) while in college was home while a big party was going on down the hall. It got busted. Knocked on his door. They told him he needed to come out and take a breathalyzer. He refused, to which the police officer pulled him out of his apartment, took him to the ground and handcuffed him. He sued and won. However, it was only 50k if I recall correctly.

It doesn't happen very often, but we are all people, some are decent just having a bad day and some are just plain bad. And invariably as police are no different than anyone else... mistakes happen. Some get caught, most of the time it just passes by. Just like for non LEO's a lot of people do a lot of things. Some get caught for nothing... but the worst ones just seem to slip by. But that's just been my experiences.

 

[mrjarrell]

What makes you think we have anything to take? You want my worthless house? My truck that's not paid for? The 200.00 I have in savings? Or a couple of hundred every 2 weeks from my check. People rather sue the city because they can get a lump some for much more than we are worth. I think I know the case you are talking about. It was LONG before IMPD was formed and it was in fact an IUPUI Police Officer with whom I used to work with (after this arrest) and I believe it was heard back in the early 1990's. Again, false arrests happen with some frequency? What facts do you have to support your opinion? I will not say they do not happen but that are rare. I looked up number of arrests in US in 2005 (Most current from the UCR), 14 million arrests in 2005 alone.
Table 29 - Crime in the United States 2005
How many are knowing false arrests (I'm not talking about an arrest with PC that gets dismissed anyway). I am talking about an officer acting outside the scope of his authority. Shpw me the numbers to back up your opinions.

You have just as much to lose as an average Joe. If someone does something to violate your rights and you sue them, does the city pick up their tab? Absolutely not. Cops get a free ride and, frankly know it. If the laws regarding immunity were removed we'd have a whole different ball game in this country. If a cop violated my rights and I could actually sue them, I would. Not the department, not the city. Them. As for arrests, I'd suggest you look into arrests in WI for open carry, ditto across the country. Cops routinely use the BS "disorderly conduct" charge to initiate the arrest and then have to drop the charges later. Most people, for some odd reason won't go after the cops. Can't imagine why not. Too bad, too. Tying up the courts with this would make for a better world. Removal of immunity would make cops toe the line and get those on authority trips off of them.

 

[55spartan]

Looks like the typical meathead type of cop who has been this way all his life. He gives the rest of our leo's a bad name. He probably did 100 push ups before the pic was taken to Popeye up. Next time stand up for your rights but don't be "lit" when you are doing it.

 

[Yamaha]

Here is the info to contact the town council should you be so inclined to complain to the ones who hired him:

Council may be contacted at:
100 West State St.
P.O. Box 230
Pendleton, IN 46064
Phone: 765-778-2173

Donald E. Henderson
Council President
Jeanette Isbell
Council Vice President
Andrea Canaday
Council Member
Bob Campbell
Council Member
Eddie Traylor
Council Member

Interesting to note that he has "authority" over a population of around 3,100, and Pendleton houses more criminals (3,300) than average good citizens.

Maybe that's why he needs the tight shirt - so that everyone outside of the correctional facilities' walls will respect his authoritah!

re-quoted for info.....and btw, the 3300 offenders does not include the juvenile facility either. 2 adult and 1 juvenile....lol


Josh, thats really screwed up man, or he was mocking your g30.....

 

[Denny347]

You have just as much to lose as an average Joe. If someone does something to violate your rights and you sue them, does the city pick up their tab? Absolutely not. Cops get a free ride and, frankly know it. If the laws regarding immunity were removed we'd have a whole different ball game in this country. If a cop violated my rights and I could actually sue them, I would. Not the department, not the city. Them. As for arrests, I'd suggest you look into arrests in WI for open carry, ditto across the country. Cops routinely use the BS "disorderly conduct" charge to initiate the arrest and then have to drop the charges later. Most people, for some odd reason won't go after the cops. Can't imagine why not. Too bad, too. Tying up the courts with this would make for a better world. Removal of immunity would make cops toe the line and get those on authority trips off of them.

Again, show me the stats. You keep saying "routinely" yet you have not provided a single number to back up your OPINION. Please enlighten us. We get a free ride???? I want whatever drugs your are taking.

 

[mrjarrell]

Again, show me the stats. You keep saying "routinely" yet you have not provided a single number to back up your OPINION. Please enlighten us. We get a free ride???? I want whatever drugs your are taking.

There are no stats for false arrests in the US because those would have to be submitted by police departments and you guys won't do that, will you? Shoot, departments won't even submit required stats to the DoJ on shootings. Wonder why that is?

As for your cute little smiley, I couldn't care less about your assertions. Cops get a free ride. Sovereign immunity insures that. Avoid it all you like. Removal of it would level the playing field and you guys would behave a lot differently. You'd realise that you're nothing more than employees of the people and would act accordingly. I find it funny that you would assert that cops never falsely arrest citizens. Never trump up charges to get someone off the street and in custody. No contempt of cop arrests. C'mon. You know better and are just trying to defend the indefensible. You know it happens.

 

[dross]

+1 Police officers are underpaid. Teachers too!

No one is underpaid in this country. You see, since we don't have slavery (oh, perhaps a diluted slavery, since some of our money is taken by force and given to others without an exchange of services) anyone is free to work anywhere for any amount their knowledge and skills will buy on the market. If someone is underpaid, they've underpaid themselves. Go find someone who is willing to pay you what you think you're worth. Can't? Well then, you arent' underpaid.

A few years ago, in Colorado Springs, there were 2000 candidate applying for any given open position on the police force. When you have 2000 candidates for a position, you can be certain that the position OVER pays.

Same thing with teachers. Not as many candidates, though there are plenty. Teachers limit competition by requiring otherwise qualified people to get a certification that has never been proven to ensure quality teaching. Also, when teacher pay stats are published, they always show teachers in their first few years of pay. When compared with similar positions requiring similar education and difficulty of degree programs, teachers pay stacks up quite well. The other bit of mathematics usually left out is that teachers get an extended vacation every summer. If you calculate their pay based on that paid time off, it raises it even higher. Yet another benefit is that it's almost impossible to terminate a teacher. Combine all that with what is one of the best retirement programs available in any field (that's in most states, I'm ignorant about Indiana's teacher retirement program) and again, teachers are overpaid, not underpaid.

 

[kingnereli]

There are no stats for false arrests in the US because those would have to be submitted by police departments and you guys won't do that, will you? Shoot, departments won't even submit required stats to the DoJ on shootings. Wonder why that is?

As for your cute little smiley, I couldn't care less about your assertions. Cops get a free ride. Sovereign immunity insures that. Avoid it all you like. Removal of it would level the playing field and you guys would behave a lot differently. You'd realise that you're nothing more than employees of the people and would act accordingly. I find it funny that you would assert that cops never falsely arrest citizens. Never trump up charges to get someone off the street and in custody. No contempt of cop arrests. C'mon. You know better and are just trying to defend the indefensible. You know it happens.

What? Surely somewhere there is a database of false arrest and police misconduct that is available to the public. Why wouldn't police departments document their shortcomings? Leo's on internet forums couldn't openly discredit you points for lack of data that can only come from the offending party.

 

[bigus_D]

No one is underpaid in this country. You see, since we don't have slavery (oh, perhaps a diluted slavery, since some of our money is taken by force and given to others without an exchange of services) anyone is free to work anywhere for any amount their knowledge and skills will buy on the market. If someone is underpaid, they've underpaid themselves. Go find someone who is willing to pay you what you think you're worth. Can't? Well then, you arent' underpaid.

A few years ago, in Colorado Springs, there were 2000 candidate applying for any given open position on the police force. When you have 2000 candidates for a position, you can be certain that the position OVER pays.

Same thing with teachers. Not as many candidates, though there are plenty. Teachers limit competition by requiring otherwise qualified people to get a certification that has never been proven to ensure quality teaching. Also, when teacher pay stats are published, they always show teachers in their first few years of pay. When compared with similar positions requiring similar education and difficulty of degree programs, teachers pay stacks up quite well. The other bit of mathematics usually left out is that teachers get an extended vacation every summer. If you calculate their pay based on that paid time off, it raises it even higher. Yet another benefit is that it's almost impossible to terminate a teacher. Combine all that with what is one of the best retirement programs available in any field (that's in most states, I'm ignorant about Indiana's teacher retirement program) and again, teachers are overpaid, not underpaid.

Yea... I see where you are comming from. I just want the best teacher in the classroom when my child is in there learning. I don't think the salary is high enough to bring attract the most talented candidates. Some (MOST) teachers do it because they want to help others. In my wife's case, she left a higher paying job to go get an additional degree so that she could become a teacher (even after prorating salaries to compensate for the additional vacation)... So, I'm not sure where that leaves us... teachers are paid, police officers are paid... if these jobs paid more we might find that more qualified (higher caliber) individuals would apply for the positions.

 

[jeremy]

So, I'm not sure where that leaves us... teachers are paid, police officers are paid... if these jobs paid more we might find that more qualified (higher caliber) individuals would apply for the positions.

In theory that sounds great. But in reality, it would not work. I really wish it was that simple, pay better get better people. The biggest problem is the drivel that the G'men insist to be taught to people. Until you undue that structure you can not get a good educational system.

 

[dross]

Yea... I see where you are comming from. I just want the best teacher in the classroom when my child is in there learning. I don't think the salary is high enough to bring attract the most talented candidates. Some (MOST) teachers do it because they want to help others. In my wife's case, she left a higher paying job to go get an additional degree so that she could become a teacher (even after prorating salaries to compensate for the additional vacation)... So, I'm not sure where that leaves us... teachers are paid, police officers are paid... if these jobs paid more we might find that more qualified (higher caliber) individuals would apply for the positions.

I want good teachers and good police officers, too. My two cents is that the compensation isn't the problem. After all, the same could be said for our armed services, and no one disputes that they have outstanding people and outstanding leadership, with similar pay issues.

I think the problems in both professions stems from the system, rather than the people. It seems to me that most cops I've met are pretty high-quality people. I'm friends with lots of outstanding people who are teachers. I don't know a lot about the internal issues of the police force, only what I know from mine and others' encounters with them.

As for education, I think the problems come from the way it's administered from the top - and the way politics impacts the classroom. Also, it should be easier to fire teachers, when needed. I think government employees should work under the same basic conditions as the private sector, namely that your boss can let you go under his/her discretion, rather than going through a cumbersome process that ensures bad apples stay in the barrel.