INGOer Teaches INGO Why Loaded Guns Matter

[Jackson]

Where can you point the gun after you've cleared it that you couldn't before you cleared it?

Based on my observations, this clearly means you should point it at everyone in the gun store at least twice.

 

[Brad69]

In my world a pistol is in the holster or getting ready to shoot something.
The stupid stuff happens when you do other things with it.
He is a tip I received long ago keep You weapons loaded the dumb crap happens with "unloaded" ones!

I you you wanna get flagged go to Whitakers gun shop in Owensboro KY.
Hundreds of rifles and shotguns that you can just walk up and grab and look at.
I get a little nervous in there.

 

[jamil]

Where can you point the gun after you've cleared it that you couldn't before you cleared it?

A safe direction is a safe direction whether it's loaded or not. Are you saying that no one should make sure guns are clear before handing them in that context?

Based on my observations, this clearly means you should point it at everyone in the gun store at least twice.

The people you've observed doing that obviously aren't aware of Cooper's rule #2 or NRA's rule #1. Your observation has nothing to do with clearing a gun when it's handed to you. That's a separate issue involving the incomplete understanding of handling firearms safely.

 

[Jackson]

A safe direction is a safe direction whether it's loaded or not. Are you saying that no one should make sure guns are clear before handing them in that context?



The people you've observed doing that obviously aren't aware of Cooper's rule #2 or NRA's rule #1. Your observation has nothing to do with clearing a gun when it's handed to you. That's a separate issue involving the incomplete understanding of handling firearms safely.

I was being a little silly. Still, I've run in to quite a few people who are very careful with the muzzle when they believe it to be loaded, but decide that's not important or even unnecessary when they believe it to be empty.

 

[Jackson]

Also, I couldn't care less what you do or check before you hand me a gun. When I get it, it's loaded in my mind. It doesn't change anything about my gun handling, or what I'm going to do with it. Your checking is totally irrelevant to me.

That's not to say I don't think it's a good practice or you shouldnt do it. It just doesn't affect my behavior.

 

[churchmouse]

Also, I couldn't care less what you do or check before you hand me a gun. When I get it, it's loaded in my mind. It doesn't change anything about my gun handling, or what I'm going to do with it. Your checking is totally irrelevant to me.

That's not to say I don't think it's a good practice or you shouldnt do it. It just doesn't affect my behavior.

And it should no effect what you do.

 

[Brad69]

When you work in an environment where everyone is armed 24/7 often with more than one weapon for a year at a time in some situations.
It's considered incompetent not to clear it. Even if you are going to immediately reload it.
I am very concerned over how those around me handle weapons. It's a great indicator of a persons level of training.
I was about two feet from a Afghan who got his head ventilated by another Afghan with a G17 because he didn't know how to operate it. He almost got a chest full of 5.56 lucky guy!
I guess it's a different culture?

 

[BE Mike]

Also, I couldn't care less what you do or check before you hand me a gun. When I get it, it's loaded in my mind. It doesn't change anything about my gun handling, or what I'm going to do with it. Your checking is totally irrelevant to me.

That's not to say I don't think it's a good practice or you shouldnt do it. It just doesn't affect my behavior.

That begs the question: Do you make a gun safe before handing it over to another person?

 

[Jackson]

That begs the question: Do you make a gun safe before handing it over to another person?

Depends on the person and the situation. I don't hand guns off to people very often. I don't buy many guns, and I don't take mine out to show them off or let other people fondle them.

Most of the people I might hand a gun to are people I know and practice with. It's probably happening on the range. I'm generally going to hand it to them loaded and they will expect it to be loaded.

If I'm handing it to someone who's skill and experience is unknown and it's not for them to shoot right there at the range, yeah I'll probably clear it and show them it's clear. This might be during a transaction or some demonstration or explanation. Other than those opportunities, my handing guns around for show'n'tell doesn't happen very often.

 

[ATM]

That begs the question: Do you make a gun safe before handing it over to another person?

Do you mean stop handling it before handing it over to another person? Or, just keeping it pointed in a safe direction while handing it over?

Unloading a gun doesn't equate to making it safe.

 

[bwframe]

A safe direction is a safe direction whether it's loaded or not. Are you saying that no one should make sure guns are clear before handing them in that context? ...

...I've run in to quite a few people who are very careful with the muzzle when they believe it to be loaded, but decide that's not important or even unnecessary when they believe it to be empty.

Also, I couldn't care less what you do or check before you hand me a gun. When I get it, it's loaded in my mind. It doesn't change anything about my gun handling, or what I'm going to do with it. Your checking is totally irrelevant to me.

That's not to say I don't think it's a good practice or you shouldnt do it. It just doesn't affect my behavior.

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED (Or presumed/treated as such, for the semantics crowd.)



.

 

[Hoosier Carry]

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED (Or presumed/treated as such, for the semantics crowd.)



.

I agree with your post.

Not stirring the pot here, just curious. What happened that some feel the 4 rules to be lacking? Where did this start from?

 

[jamil]

I agree with your post.

Not stirring the pot here, just curious. What happened that some feel the 4 rules to be lacking? Where did this start from?

That's a long story. There were a few threads on that.

 

[ATM]

I agree with your post.

Not stirring the pot here, just curious. What happened that some feel the 4 rules to be lacking? Where did this start from?

Nothing happened. Many have simply abandoned (or never adopted) that old mantra as it has nothing to do with safe gun handling.

Rule #1 ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction shouldn't play second fiddle to any such nonsense as loaded/unloaded status.

 

[Brad69]

Oh hell no I am not going to agree with ATM and Jamil both!

 

[ATM]

Oh hell no I am not going to agree with ATM and Jamil both!

Seems like a trap, right?



I'll bet it's a trap.

 

[KJQ6945]

Nothing happened. Many have simply abandoned (or never adopted) that old mantra as it has nothing to do with safe gun handling.

Rule #1 ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction shouldn't play second fiddle to any such nonsense as loaded/unloaded status.

You are right, as always. Thanks for stopping, bye.

 

[Hoosier Carry]

That's a long story. There were a few threads on that.

I know of a few of the later threads. Do you have a link to earlier discussion.

We all agree there is nothing more important than safe gun handling but I'm just trying to understand the division in sides without beating the dead horse.

 

[KJQ6945]

I know of a few of the later threads. Do you have a link to earlier discussion.

We all agree there is nothing more important than safe gun handling but I'm just trying to understand the division in sides without beating the dead horse.

ATM should be along any second to beat you with why his way, is the only correct way.

You were warned not to get them wet, or feed them after midnight. Now, its on you.

 

[NIFT]

I know of a few of the later threads. Do you have a link to earlier discussion.

We all agree there is nothing more important than safe gun handling but I'm just trying to understand the division in sides without beating the dead horse.

Way too late, my friend. Not just one horse, but the entire remuda, including skeletal structures, has been pulverized into a totally unrecognizable grease spot.

KJQ6945, above, nailed it.